Wilfork scenarios

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsfan24-7. Show Patsfan24-7's posts

    Wilfork scenarios

    http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=generalnewsdetail&pid=41739&pcid=41

    Andy and Paul from patriots.com give their opinions on what will ultimately happen with vince wilfork.

    who do you guys agree with?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    If I'm the Pats I franchise him if he wants to break the bank. The Pats have the leverage. They'll use it if they can't make a deal with him.

    Every player talks publicly about sitting out but has anyone ever done it for very long? Well has any intelligent player done it for very long? You NEVER recoup the money lost during the games you sit out.

    Vince has made less than 6mil, according to things I've read (accurate?), in his first 6 years. Why the heck would he sit out for guaranteed money of around 7mil for 1 yr.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joakimbrian. Show Joakimbrian's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    just make the deal-.- gettin tired of pats not payin up the big bucks and tired of wilfork talkin to the media 24-7
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsfaninsatx. Show patsfaninsatx's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    Why risk getting injured, when he can sit out and eventually get his money.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    I disagree Patsfan. It's an argument used by the players but they know its bologna that's why they end up playing.

    Why do you think no one ever really sits. You really think he will throw away 7 mil guaranteed. Guaranteed even if he gets injured first day in camp once he signs the sheet.

    If he gets injured and even has surgery someone is going to give him his money the following year. His contract offer would not drop off that much different then if he sat on his big buttock for a whole year doing nothing.

    He would never recoup that 7 million. Never. Some team is not going to go oh ok we were going to give you 50 mil but since you sat out a year and lost 7 mil we'll be good guys and give you 57 mil instead.

    I could be wrong but I think I remember Lance Briggs saying he was positively going to sit out his Franchise tag year, same for Peppers before he got franchised, then there was crabtree although not the same. Someone finally slapped that dummy and he finally signed. There are probably others but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    Herer's my take on the Forks situation,he needs too stop talking through the uninformed media,if he continues and I were the owner I would ship him off to the worst team I could find,either Tampa Bay or Detroit. Speaking your mind is all well and good,but talking like a fool only shows that you are in fact a fool. I wonder why Vince's agent hasn't told him to let him do the negotiating? Oh well in either case he picked a bad year to argue his points,particularly since he had a down year stats wise. I'd trade him anyways but then again I'm old school....
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    I'm tired of watching him get tossed around by Jeff Saturday every time the Colts are trying to punch it into the endzone while trailing late in the game.  Sell him to the highest bidder. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots1a2. Show patriots1a2's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    I would franchise him and trade him durring the draft to 15 or so and take mount Cody then trade the 22 pick back a few slots and pick up a PASS RUSHER.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    Chiefs received for Jared Allan a:
    2008 1st
    2 2008 3rd
    1 2008 6th
    Vikings got Jared Allan and a 2008 6th

    I'm not trying to say these two match in their skills or what they bring to the game but I think we can agree both at elite at what they do.

    Above is the compensation the Chiefs received for Jared Allan.  Is it too far fetched to think this could actually happen for VW, maybe not all those picks but I wouldn't take much less for him.

    I know both are different players and one is a sack master while the other is a beast of a man against the run and taking up multiple gaps in a 34 system BUT he's shown he can play in 34 or 43, he's lined up as DE to defend against the run ect. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    "Chiefs received for Jared Allan a:
    2008 1st
    2 2008 3rd
    1 2008 6th
    Vikings got Jared Allan and a 2008 6th

    I'm not trying to say these two match in their skills or what they bring to the game but I think we can agree both at elite at what they do."

    I don't think that's a great comparison because Jared Allen is an elite pass rusher which is more of a premium than a run stuffer.  It's like comparing a guard to a tackle on the offensive side.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    Guys,

    There are only two F/As the Pats have worth the tag money, Wilfork and Gostkowski.  The best solution is to try to extend Wilfork to a very fair deal, i.e., make him the #2 or #3 highest paid NT behind Haynesworth (not sure what that figure is).  We might even have to make him one of the highest paid D-lineman which are productive sack DE types.  We use the leverage of a pending Tag if he doesn't sign by Feb 25.  It is in the Pats' best interest to lock up Wilfork and end any ugliness.  We don't want this spilling over into the draft not knowing if we have to pick another NT type since Brace doesn't appear to be the answer.  Ironically, IMO, Brace was drafted to try to get leverage over Wilfork by making him think they don't need him.  The opposite proved true as Brace was thrown around like a rag doll against Baltimore.

    For those that suggest we just tag and trade him, it's not that easy.  First, you can't trade a player that is not under contract.  So, if Wilfork refuses to sign the tag (like Samuel) you can't trade him.  Holding out is Wilfork's only leverage and you better bet he'll use it.  Wilfork can hold out through training camp or the whole year creating a ton of uncertainty for him, yes, but also for the Pats. 

    For those that think Wilfork would be crazy to hold out and throw away $7MM and sit out a year, think again.  The reason players hate the tag is there is no signing bonus.  Signing bonuses are what excites and provides security to players.  The Signing bonus is money they receive up front but during cap years can be prorated over the length of the deal.  Both teams and players use signing bonuses as a significant part of a rich deal.  On the open market Wilfork for sure could expect a signing bonus of AT LEAST $35MM.  The SB secures Wilfork and his family for life.  He could have a career ending injury in the first game and the money is his to keep.  The Pats could keep tagging him but it would be very unlikely especially since they will need the tag to use on Brady unless they rework his deal before next February.  If I'm Wilfork and have enough to live on for a year, I either do a Samuel deal or I hold out one year and get 5 times the tag money all at once in a year. 

    Right now the Pats can't legally/officially talk to other teams about trading him because he hasn't signed the tender and isn't under contract.  No team is allowed to talk to him while he is in limbo or after he signs the tender.  This makes it very hard to try to work out a trade because the Pats, Wilfork and the acquiring team aren't allowed to even talk about Wilfork until he signs the tender or severe sanctions can be handed down by the league.  Wilfork will NOT give up his only chip by signing the tag and allowing the Pats to do what they want with him, heck no.  Even if he did, no team will agree to a trade for Wilfork giving up at least a 1st round pick without knowing they can lock him up long term so the team would have to know Wilfork's heart.  The only team that could feel good about taking such a shot would be Miami and the Pats would never trade him there.

    Bottom line, this has the HUGE POTENTIAL TO BECOME VERY MESSY AND UGLY with only one positive outcome, the Pats make Wilfork an offer he can't refuse and reward him for 6 great seasons where he played for chump money.  There is no other GOOD way for this to end.  A long protracted hold out involving a tag could lead to a contract extension later but if the two sides are far apart, this goes way past the draft (altering our draft plans) and well into training camp.  At the end of the day Wilfork will strike a Samuel-like deal, play for the $7MM with a promise that they won't tag him again.  We will then see him next in 2011 when we play the Dolphins.  WAKE UP KRAFT AND BELICHICK AND PAY THE MAN!!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    siesta do you think Jared Allen would have all his success if he was not next to the Williams?  Agree and I stated it is not a clear comparison but it is a good base because of the elite status of both.

    You can't have a great pass rusher and not have inferior interior linemen, teams will not be forced to pass if you can't stuff the run and make them a one dimensional team. 

    With run stuffer like Wilfork guys like Allan make their money.  It starts inside and work out from there.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    Hey, faucetman is back, with some pretty good insight.  I have to disagree though.  He's a 2 down run stuffer who doesn't stuff all that well.  You think Brace was tossed around by Baltimore, what about Wilfork?  That first play went right at where he was supposed to be.  And we've all seen him fail against Saturday again and again.  I don't understand everybody's infatuation with him - is it the lack of stars on the D? 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    Got 0:13 on this video ... whose gap are they running at?  Who is that with 75 on the back of his jersey getting pancaked while Ray Rice runs through the spot he lined up at?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCzLvt7RZxY
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    themighity you are basing his value on one game which NOBODY played well?  That's is not even close to what he's been doing over seasons.  Do you really understand the scheme and what a NT is supposed to do?  If he's not a run stuffer what then would you consider one?

    He has been the best player on the defense for the last few years, including when Seymour was here last year.  Without Vince the D would have been ranked last in the league.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    It's not one game.  Watch him any time he goes up against Saturday.  Remember the 06 Championship game?  Remember the Colts' game winning TD run?  Saturday destroyed Wilfork on that play.  If we can't count on him him when it matters most, why overpay for him?  Plus he's going to be injured more and more now. With our luck, he'll be on IR by October.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    I am not saying overpay, I want a trade to happen here.  What I don't agree with is your accessment of him and what he means to a D.  I think I would be happy with 1 and 3 or 2 #2s.

    This draft has a lot of talent including a few guys who should be good NTs (not Cody) Dan Williams is big strong and actually likes playing DE, he has the quickness to play DE as well as NT.  The only problem is the Pats can't trade him until he signs his franchise contract which probably won't happen until after training camp.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from harleyroadking103. Show harleyroadking103's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    Suberbowl 42....Gaints 4th and 1 with 2 minutes left in the game....handoff to Jacobs up the middle......FIRSTDOWN!!  where was VW on what was probably the biggest play in career.....going backwards!

    VW is good, he is not break the bank good.



     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    themightypatriotz,

    Vince Wilfork is the best player we have on defense, 2 down or not.  We were actually 12th against the rush giving up 120.1 yards per game last year.  If you thought that was bad, wait until next year if Wilfork isn't playing.  Wilfork is a tremendous run stuffer often beating double teams disrupting the runner.  His job is to plug the middle, occupy two OL men allowing others to make plays.  Keep in mind Wilfork missed 3 weeks with an ankle injury just prior to that Baltimore game.  It being the play-offs, perhaps he was rushed back and not near 100%.  Try pushing off against two 330 lbs guys with a bad ankle; it's not a fair fight.

    As for Jeff Saturday, he is an elite player and everyone has their nemesis.  Larry Bird as great as he was struggled mightily against Michael Cooper.  Ted Williams struggled against Whitey Ford.  The examples of great players who always seem to have off days against certain match ups in any sport are endless.  Trust me, if we lose Wilfork after losing Seymour, Ty Warren will start getting the double teams and we'll be mis-matched against just about any OL next year.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    bn34,

    You make another good point about holding out 6 weeks.  Yes, that is a factor for Wilfork to consider and 6/16th of $7MM is as much as he made over his first 3-4 years.  He reduces his injury risk by 62% and still gets credit for the year.

    The point I still think everyone doesn't get is WE CAN'T TRADE WILFORK.  This isn't a Dion Branch situation.  Branch was holding out while under contract.  Remember, the Pats gave Branch permission to find a trading partner.  He found the Jets and Seattle.  The Pats took the Seattle deal for obvious reasons.

    The Wilfork case is just like the Samuel case.  To end the stalemate by trade is almost impossible.  Wilfork would have to sign the $7MM Franchise tender before trade talks can even begin.  This is what Cassel did and he did it in a heartbeat because he knew he was going to either make $14MM to back up Brady or get traded and get a huge deal with a chance to start.  Wilfork doesn't want to play for $7MM a year with anybody.  No team, except Miami, would take him and give up enough value without an assurance Wilfork will stay beyond the 1 year.

    For a trade to happen, the Pats must convince Wilfork to sign the tender and to TRUST them to find a viable trading partner that Wilfork will like at the money he would take which of course would have to be more money than the Pats are willing to pay.  All the while, the Pats can't talk to another team so would have no idea who is interested and at what price.  There would have to be so many "wink and nods" going on between the Pats, Wilfork and the new team all of which violate NFL interference rules.  This would take a conspiracy with too many moving parts to keep quiet. 

    Please every body, forget the trading Wilfork idea.  It is the least likely of all possibilities.

    The only other caveat is if the Pats use the Transition Tag instead of the Franchise Tag.  That would allow another team to sign Wilfork to an offer sheet.  The Pats would have 7 days to match.  If they match, Wilfork stays.  If they don't match, the Pats would get two first round picks from the acquiring team.  The transition tag is seldom if ever used.  If it has been used, I can't recall of a team actually giving up two 1st rounders for a transition tagged player.  Can anyone think of a time where it has happened?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    Right - Wilfork is not invincible, he gets injured, he plays well most of the time but doesn't guarantee anything, especially on crucial running plays, and he's useless against the pass, so if he wants uber-millions, let him go.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    The sad thing is the Redskins paid Haynesworth and absurd amount of money.  Now the bar has been set.  No way the Pats come close to that bar.  I'm not even sure another team would either given a potential lock-out in 2011.  Imagine Wilfork sitting out 10 games then coming back for the final six to get his year of vesting and now the Pats want to trade him because they know he will walk after the season.  What team would take him and redo his contract giving him a big signing bonus when they don't even know if there will be a season in 2011?

    Without a new collective bargaining agreement there is so much up in the air that it will be hard for any team to want to fork over big signing bonuses right now even for Brady.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Wilfork scenarios

    Signing bonuses are paid up front.  If there is a lockout, the player keeps the bonus I'm pretty sure even if there are no games or game checks being handed out in 2011.

    I don't think the wink/nod trade idea has legs.  The league has really cracked down on that sort of thing costing teams draft picks and fines whenever revealed.  You have the agent, the player, those close to the player, the trading team, the acquiring team and those close to them plus the media covering all sides of each story.  There are always people talking under condition of anonymity.  There is NO FREAKIN WAYa trade gets done until after Wilfork signs the tender.  Again, once he signs, he loses all leverage.  I don't see him signing until either right before the regular season having exhausted all talks or after Week 10.  The mostly likely scenario is Wilfork gets tagged and holds out for a Samuelesque agreement to play under the condition he doesn't get tagged again.
     

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