Re: 2006 and 2012
posted at 8/24/2012 4:12 PM EDT
In Response to Re: 2006 and 2012
[QUOTE]In Response to 2006 and 2012 : Again... you continue to set up the "straw man / dog" argument. It's clearly not about the manager! This TEAM s ucks in comparison! The pitching is worse in 2012, at least marginally. The hitting, especially "in the clutch, & coming from behind," is infinately worse this year!!!!! THIS TEAM S UCKS! So, we agree on the FACTS! That still does not mean that bobby v. does not s uck ALSO!!!! That still does not excuse bobby v. doing a pi zz poor job as manager! That still does not mean that bobby v. is not a joke this year. That still does not mean that bobby v has not added to the circus / soap opera. Why do you keep avoiding the obvious, & framing the issue ONLY as you want to look at it? Is it, or is it not, possible that this team s ucks, AND bobby v s ucks too??? Is it possible, or are they mutually exclusive IN YOUR MIND?
Posted by redsoxdirtdog[/QUOTE]
What straw man? The OP was intended as the start of a discussion, not the end of it and certainly not as a defense of Bobby V. I have defended him elsewhere, not here.
Right now you and dannycater have a visceral response to all things Bobby and, I think, vastly overstated his ability to help or hinder the Sox. For starters, you appear to have bought into press-driven stuff about communications, etc. If Bobby says the wrong thing, you think it is reason for impeachment. I think 90% of the stories about the clubhouse and the manager-players communications is full of sound and fury signifying nothing. I think Bobby has communicated very well, but players like Shoppach and Youk didn't like what they heard. Pedroia didn't like everything Bobby said either, but that hasn't affected his performance on the field, and Bobby has made it very clear how much he appreciates how Pedey plays the game, how committed he is.
But I could be wrong. Maybe Bobby has destroyed the Sox all by himself. Or maybe he is the straw that broke the camel's back,the one final thing that drove the players so nuts they don't care anymore. So have at it. Explain why that is true.
So far in this thread there are two explanations on why 2006 turned out better. One is better offense, especially with Manny and David in their prime. Another is better clubhouse leadership. Why not make the case for Francona being a better manager?
On another thread I point out why I think players are less affected by atmospherics--who said what to the press or whoever--than we might think. I cite the example of Jacoby Ellsbury, who after the 2010 season and being denounced publicly by Youkilis, with not a single player or coach or the manager coming to his defese, must have felt like a pariah. The outcast of poker flats. So what happened the next year? A career year like you wouldn't believe. Do you honestly think Francona had anything to do with that incredible performance? I don't. I think all Francona did for Ellsbury was put his name in the lineup, and Jacoby did everything else.
And I think that's mostly what any manager does. Fill out the lineup card. Call for a bunt now and then or intentional pass or whatever. Pull the starter, pick the right reliever, etc. Then hope like heck the players can hit,pitch, field, run, etc. well enough to win games. There's more to it, of course, but not a lot more.
Or consider Andrew Miller. He has been around MLB for years and finally arrived last year with the Sox. Horrible control problems. Unfixable. Tried him as a starter, no go. Francona's fault? I don't think so. This year he is a ton better as a reliever. Thanks to Bobby? I don't think so. He just finally figured it out. I think a pitching coach told him to go back to the pitching motion he used at Chapel Hill. Plus he stopped using a windup and stuck with the stretch--this might have been because of Bobby,who commented on it in ST, but maybe not.