39 million to 5 million?????

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    i think you get what you pay for..just sayin...

    but you have to love the discounted price.....but im not sure what this says about ben's acumen as GM....why was he giving a guy who was oft injured 39 mil? turns out he was worth 5 mil...thats not too impressive imo...

     



    I don't think he is quite as injury-prone as you indicate. He sat a lot in Anaheim because Scioscia did not like his defense as a catcher. 

     

     

    This is a non-factor now...


    Im Ok with this revised deal but Notin, im not exactly sure why some are saying its a great deal...the guy is obviously in rough shape....im pretty sure he didnt give himself 90% pay cut because he just loved the thought of playing for the sox...Mike Lowell redux?

     




    C'mon Geo, you know that's BS.  Right now it appears to be an AAV paycut of $13m to $5m, and that's before incentives.  You don't help your case by manipulating numbers, you hinder it.

     

     




    the agreed to contract was 3 years at 39 million....not one yr at 13 mil..i really have no idea what you are trying to point out...napoli not only agreed to drop his yearly salary, but cancel out the other two years of his agreed to contract....why?  lets get real here....

     

     



    Because it became common knowledge that he is a huge injury risk , which completely changed his market.

     

    It also didnt help Napoli that Texas had signed AJ and Berkman and Sea had withdrawn all interest.  His market was flipped upside down.  Ben knew this and held the line.  Although I would have probably preferred 2/20 , with the second yr voided if he goes on teh DL with a hip injury at any pt in the first year.

    There is a strong possibility that by July, we are wishing that we stuck with 3/39.  His career OPS is second highest on the team!  Behind only Ortiz.



    Under no circumstances should anyone look back and wish we took that deal. Its not worth the risk of being stuck with an albatross for two years more than we should have. Sure, his hip may not act up at all for three years, but you can't use 20-20 hindsight to judge what has been done. This is the right thing for the Red Sox at this time. Even if Napoli puts up great numbers this year, when the franchise is competitive again in 2015 or so he will easily be replaced. Finally, the problems with the team are not about hitting. Until the pitching is fixed we are going nowhere.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Completely agree that this is the right deal for right now.  And that its not fair to use hindsight to critique the deal at a later date.  However, after the Beltre year, didnt you wish that we had him for a second yr at the same price?  How about Ross?

    Im a big fan of Napoli's attitude and bat.  I was just pointing out the possibility that he plays 130 games and mashes.  Leaving us wishing that we had him locked up for another yr.  Of course, this doesnt mean that we should criticize Ben as 1@5 is a much better deal right now.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

     

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:

     

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    i think you get what you pay for..just sayin...

    but you have to love the discounted price.....but im not sure what this says about ben's acumen as GM....why was he giving a guy who was oft injured 39 mil? turns out he was worth 5 mil...thats not too impressive imo...

     



    I don't think he is quite as injury-prone as you indicate. He sat a lot in Anaheim because Scioscia did not like his defense as a catcher. 

     

     

    This is a non-factor now...


    Im Ok with this revised deal but Notin, im not exactly sure why some are saying its a great deal...the guy is obviously in rough shape....im pretty sure he didnt give himself 90% pay cut because he just loved the thought of playing for the sox...Mike Lowell redux?

     




    C'mon Geo, you know that's BS.  Right now it appears to be an AAV paycut of $13m to $5m, and that's before incentives.  You don't help your case by manipulating numbers, you hinder it.

     

     




    the agreed to contract was 3 years at 39 million....not one yr at 13 mil..i really have no idea what you are trying to point out...napoli not only agreed to drop his yearly salary, but cancel out the other two years of his agreed to contract....why?  lets get real here....

     

     



    Because it became common knowledge that he is a huge injury risk , which completely changed his market.

     

    It also didnt help Napoli that Texas had signed AJ and Berkman and Sea had withdrawn all interest.  His market was flipped upside down.  Ben knew this and held the line.  Although I would have probably preferred 2/20 , with the second yr voided if he goes on teh DL with a hip injury at any pt in the first year.

    There is a strong possibility that by July, we are wishing that we stuck with 3/39.  His career OPS is second highest on the team!  Behind only Ortiz.

     



    Under no circumstances should anyone look back and wish we took that deal. Its not worth the risk of being stuck with an albatross for two years more than we should have. Sure, his hip may not act up at all for three years, but you can't use 20-20 hindsight to judge what has been done. This is the right thing for the Red Sox at this time. Even if Napoli puts up great numbers this year, when the franchise is competitive again in 2015 or so he will easily be replaced. Finally, the problems with the team are not about hitting. Until the pitching is fixed we are going nowhere.

     

     



    Completely agree that this is the right deal for right now.  And that its not fair to use hindsight to critique the deal at a later date.  However, after the Beltre year, didnt you wish that we had him for a second yr at the same price?  How about Ross?

    Im a big fan of Napoli's attitude and bat.  I was just pointing out the possibility that he plays 130 games and mashes.  Leaving us wishing that we had him locked up for another yr.  Of course, this doesnt mean that we should criticize Ben as 1@5 is a much better deal right now.

    [/QUOTE]


    I understand what you are saying. It would have been nice to have Beltre for more than one year after seeing his production the year he was here and after he left. But I have no regrets about his deal then or the Napoli deal now. You gotta do the right thing and not look back. Napoli was given his deal, $13M x 3 with the assumption that his hip was fine and that he would produce. In a year I doubt he will be worth much more than that. If it all works out he will be a year older with the same hip issues and if he is producing and if he likes it here, we should be able to get him to stay for about the same money he was originally offered.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    One has to wonder why Napoli is such damaged goods that he ends up with a one year low single digit guarantee. If he isn't fit to play a full season of at least 130 games at a position, this amounts to a golden parachute for a player who did all his damage years ago against the Red Sox.

    I will withhold judgment and assume the medical staff is competent, which is a true leap of faith. If he is fit for a season, it's a solid deal. If not, more incompetence from management.



    Hedging your bets, eh Softy?  A little preemptive hindsight?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Space, he's got to be seriously damaged goods - its like buying a car with a flooded title...who knows? at least its cheap./..also another silver lining, Gomez has to be given lots of playing time...

     




    Not necessarily damaged goods: I do not think you sign a player who can't play. I would say POTENTIALLY damaged goods. Its a good risk IMO, especially in a year that is a rebuilding year.

     



    I agree.  If there is nothing left of his hip, they would just walk away and not give a $5M retirement present and a roster spot.  It probably wouldn't even be in Napoli's best interest to take aone-year deal if he was injured.  If he plays 60 games and needs surgery, he'd get no contract in 2014.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to georom4's comment:

    i think you get what you pay for..just sayin...

    but you have to love the discounted price.....but im not sure what this says about ben's acumen as GM....why was he giving a guy who was oft injured 39 mil? turns out he was worth 5 mil...thats not too impressive imo...



    That's the way it works.  You come to an agreement pending physicals.  Other agreements have been abrogated.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    Im a big fan of Napoli's attitude and bat.  I was just pointing out the possibility that he plays 130 games and mashes.  Leaving us wishing that we had him locked up for another yr.  Of course, this doesnt mean that we should criticize Ben as 1@5 is a much better deal right now.

    It's a win-win.  If he plays 145 games with 30 HRs and a .265, we give him a QO and everyone goes home happy.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 56redsox. Show 56redsox's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Im a big fan of Napoli's attitude and bat.  I was just pointing out the possibility that he plays 130 games and mashes.  Leaving us wishing that we had him locked up for another yr.  Of course, this doesnt mean that we should criticize Ben as 1@5 is a much better deal right now.

    It's a win-win.  If he plays 145 games with 30 HRs and a .265, we give him a QO and everyone goes home happy.



    +1.....................

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    A) He has NEVER mashed.... and B) he has never played in 145 games.

     

    La la la Land I have two BDC posters waiting in line for two tickets to pardise.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from oscars. Show oscars's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to georom4's comment:

    i think you get what you pay for..just sayin...

    but you have to love the discounted price.....but im not sure what this says about ben's acumen as GM....why was he giving a guy who was oft injured 39 mil? turns out he was worth 5 mil...thats not too impressive imo...



    Comical!

    Is Ben supposed to have xray vision, and detect Napoli has a hip injury during thier initial negotiations? lol

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    A) He has NEVER mashed.... and B) he has never played in 145 games.

     

    La la la Land I have two BDC posters waiting in line for two tickets to pardise.



    He has always mashed.  Since 2008, Napoli is #16 among all MLB hitters in wOBA.  And #9 in slugging %.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    didnt realize 31 is considered old...its still prime years...

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    I always thought 28-33 were prime....  Dwight Evans was the first player that caused me to start poking around to which I found many players had their best years 28+ not -28.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

     

    A) He has NEVER mashed.... and B) he has never played in 145 games.

     

    La la la Land I have two BDC posters waiting in line for two tickets to pardise.

     



    He has always mashed.  Since 2008, Napoli is #16 among all MLB hitters in wOBA.  And #9 in slugging %.

     



    easy to do when u have the luxury of skipping more than 40 games a year..... percentages don't mean squat. He has half as many AB's as players such as AGon so how can his averages and percentages be compared fairly?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bt33. Show bt33's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    there's no exact definition of a players prime, but more often it's thought to be late twenties to early thirties, somewhere in the 27-33 range. obviously there are players who peak early etc. or come out of he box like gangbusters at 20 or 22 and maintain, but the thought is players bodies get to their most mature point, their skill levels and experience combine with that strength and they reach their peak before slowly starting to decline. Obviously, this varies from sport to sport, player to player, etc. Players can be great at 19 in hockey; if you're a female gymnast you might peak at 18; the shelf life in the NFL is not great due to injury and absorbed punishment (peak age for a RB might be more like 25-30), etc. And obviously if you're Roger Clemens you can defy time and history by having a whole other career in your late 30s and forties, but that's a whole other discussion. 

    in terms of napoli, they also still have room (8-10m) to go out and get a reasonable guy who can play the outfield and 1B. Might not be any FAs out there, but trading is an option. Of course finding that guy is a big issue and being able to acquire him without giving up anything of significant value may not be easy either. Perhaps some combo out of Aceves/Bailey/Britton/ Mortensen/Iglesias/Salty/Lavarnway/Morales/Nava/Kalish/Holt can bring a decent player in. Also, best case scenario is napoli has a great year and earns his incentives, but if not there is additional room to replace him AND potentialy acquire needs that might crop up due to injury with the additional 8m. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    this is making me laugh...i guess some are claiming that contracts are torn up and reduced by 90% all the time....

    i can count the number on one hand in the past five years who didnt pass the physical...it is quite rare...


    any argument to save ben some embarrassment regarding his GM acumen i guess...

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to Triumph-'s comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    this is making me laugh...i guess some are claiming that contracts are torn up and reduced by 90% all the time....

    i can count the number on one hand in the past five years who didnt pass the physical...it is quite rare...


    any argument to save ben some embarrassment regarding his GM acumen i guess...

     




     

     

     

    I can count on one hand the number of your good posts over the years.

    Guess what?

    This is not one of them.



    all 72 posts of your history? btw how is Conan doing on the Home and Garden network?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    I always thought 28-33 were prime....  Dwight Evans was the first player that caused me to start poking around to which I found many players had their best years 28+ not -28.




    exactly Burr...

    Hitters peak about the age 30 and in decline at age 33...Some things peak earlier like SLG 2b & 3b at age 28. BB rates peak about age 32, OBP about age 30. So yes, peak years for hitters are 28-32. The best years to get are ages 29-30...

    For pitchers its much different. K's rates peak about age 24 and BB rates about age 32 and ERA about age 29. Besides K rates its about the same for pitchers...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    He can still make 13 mil based upon incentives! Hopefully he's not about too join Mike Lowell in the degenerative hip club. It was painful too watch mikey try and play.

     



    Yeah that was terrible.  But Naps would be different than Mikey.  Naps would just be a busted rental.   No emotional resonance. Mikey was like family.  The heart of a championship club.  The leader of the team.  watching him go gimp was so sad for Sox fans.

     



    Yes. He was by far my favorite player on that 07 team.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

     

    A) He has NEVER mashed.... and B) he has never played in 145 games.

     

    La la la Land I have two BDC posters waiting in line for two tickets to pardise.

     



    He has always mashed.  Since 2008, Napoli is #16 among all MLB hitters in wOBA.  And #9 in slugging %.

     

     



    easy to do when u have the luxury of skipping more than 40 games a year..... percentages don't mean squat. He has half as many AB's as players such as AGon so how can his averages and percentages be compared fairly?

     



    So your original premise was that he 'has NEVER mashed, but now you are changing that to 'he has always mashed, but added a rationale?

    And the rationale that you added is that wear-and-tear reduces a players' ability to hit.  Which is probably supportable, but runs counter to previous premise that his catching had no affect on the number of games player, unless it is now your premise that playing 1B is more wear and tear than catching.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: 39 million to 5 million?????

    In response to georom4's comment:

    this is making me laugh...i guess some are claiming that contracts are torn up and reduced by 90% all the time....

    i can count the number on one hand in the past five years who didnt pass the physical...it is quite rare...


    any argument to save ben some embarrassment regarding his GM acumen i guess...



    Okay, we all know you'll duck this question, but show us the post where someone said contracts are reduced by 90% all the time.

     

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