4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    A real close look at starting pitchers' effectiveness (as well as longevity) since the 5-man rotation became the vogue in the '70s is needed.

    "I expect the real reason baseball will eventually return to the four-man rotation will be the simplest of all: It helps win games. The five-man rotation is not on that evolutionary path; it's a digression, a dead-end alley. Just as baseball once believed that walking a lot of batters was better than throwing a home-run pitch, we are now chasing an illusion that our pitchers work better on four days' rest and that the five-man rotation significantly improves their future."
    - Craig Wright, in The Diamond Appraised, 1989.

    Lately, pitchers have been lucky to go 1/2 a season without going on the DL. I believe pitching every 5th day is doing more harm than good. I would like John Farrell (or someone with similar experience) to comment. It's time the subject was addressed. I think Mr. Wright was right-on, then, and I don't much has changed except pitchers are NOT lasting as long today, as they did in the days of Feller and Grove!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    Why I would like to see more insight into this issue, I've always wondered this myself.  If it takes your muscles more than 72 hours to heal you are either a.) injured or b.) not in very good shape. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    Hard to believe everybody in MLB uses a 5 man rotation blindly without having done some basic research.  We do know that some pitchers are more resilient than others and can go more innings and/or more pitches per game. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    What you describe is ramapnt throughout our society.  It seems the only people who do things based on good research are the creators of advertisements.

    But it does surprise me that teams haven't figured out that it would be cheaper to have a scrub on the bench or at the back end of their bullpen, playing at minimum salary, in place of that multi-million dollar 5th man in their rotation.

    It certainly seems to me that pitchers' careers last no longer than they used to, but with far fewer lifetime IP.  So I see no real benefit of the 5-man rotation.  It is easier to harness 4 effective starters than 5.  It would be more cost effective, IMO.  And, it would mean your best pitchers are putting in more innings for you each year (thus earning more of their robust salary).

    I miss the days of 250-300 IP, 36 - 38 games started, 18 - 22 wins from your top starters.  You will never see four 20 game winners in a single rotation again, if baseball does not go back to a 4-man rotation.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    Baseball won't go back to four-man rotations. Players are conditioned to it, and with the way contracts are, teams will remain cautious about overpitching their pitches.

    As for pitchers who put up 300 innings in a season, too many of them had short careers. Who knows the reason but being overpitched certainly has to be considered. 

    Posters will start naming names of pitchers who put up a lot of innings, but they often name pitchers who blew out their arms and had short careers. Yes, there are pitchers who had long careers and were workhorses, but the numbers on the other side is much longer.

    I don' know if pitchers careers are lasting longer than they used to or not. I'm not going to argue whether or not pitchers are babied too much now. Perhaps they are. But when baseball history is loaded with pitchers who blew out their arms form overuse, there's not going back. 

    The fact is, no matter how much fans complain about, the 38- to 40-start, 300-plus innings pitcher is a thing of the past.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    I think a lot of injuries have more to do with all the offspeed stuff that kids at a young agre are throwing nowadays. Their bodies have not even developed fully when some are recieving TJS.

    Nolan Ryan said he threw nothing but FB and changeups until he was older. Until they get to the college age, I think Fb and change ups should be it. A fb can be a 2 or 4 seamer, which will give you break on a ball without snapping your wrist and elbow.

    I dont think it has everything to do with it, but I believe its certainly a part of all the increase in arm injuries nowadays.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    A benefit of the 5 man rotation is that it keeps 5 arms sharp.  Therefore , if a #1-4 pitcher goes down or struggles prior to the postseason, your #5 starter allows you to replace the #1-4 pitcher who is either injured or struggling.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    Players agents and the MLBPA, will never allow it. Like going back to the 24 man roster.

     

    It stopped being a sport a long time ago.

    It is a business. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Hard to believe everybody in MLB uses a 5 man rotation blindly without having done some basic research.  We do know that some pitchers are more resilient than others and can go more innings and/or more pitches per game. 


    What would do you the most good: walking a mile once a week, or walking a mile every other day?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:

    Players agents and the MLBPA, will never allow it. Like going back to the 24 man roster.

     

    It stopped being a sport a long time ago.

    It is a business. 



    Z -- it was always a business. Why do you think the Federal League was established in 1915. Why do you think Wrigley was so cheap with his players (which led to the Black Sox scandal). Why do you think Connie Mack traded off players from a couple of W.S. winners (or pennant winners)? Why do you think Ruth and others were sold to the Yankees? Why do you think Koufax and Drysdale held out?

    It was always a business, except in the reserve clause era, the owners held all the power.

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: 4-man rotation needs to be re-examined

    In response to Drewski5's comment:

    A benefit of the 5 man rotation is that it keeps 5 arms sharp.  Therefore , if a #1-4 pitcher goes down or struggles prior to the postseason, your #5 starter allows you to replace the #1-4 pitcher who is either injured or struggling.



    A benefit of the 5 man rotation is that it keeps 5 arms sharp.

    you could also say

    A benefit of the 5 man rotation is that it keeps 5 arms sharper

    sometimes that extra throw day that doesn't exist with the 4 man rot

    can be valuable giving  the pitcher a chance to work on a weakness

     

Share