A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    It saddens me to be staring this thread so early. I had hoped and expected better.
    With Tito gone, one question is answered, but who takes his place is another. I'm all for Jim Leyland, but we'll see.

    Next year seems so faraway, but there is a lot to be done. Big decisions need to be made:
    1) Re-sign Papi?
    2) Re-sign Paps?
    3) Options for Scutaro, Wheeler and Miller?
    4) Arb raises?
    5) Wake and Vtek?
    6) Trades?
    7) Free Agents?
    8) Injuries and conditioning?
    9) Coaching?
    10) Young kids stepping up?

    Again, let's try to keep this thread about Sox-related issues. Keep away from politics and personal attacks and baiting. There's a lot to discuss, so let the talks begin.

    I'd like to provide a summary of what I believe our payroll and player choices will come down to. I'm not sure if our budget will be set at about what it is now. If it is, we may have to be very creative as well as rely on our kids to take greater roles in 2012.

    Here is how I look at the budget next year and what choices we may have...

    The arbs:

    Ellsbury $2.4M > ? (Arb year 2 of 3)
    Albers    $875K > ? (Arb 3 of 4)
    Salty      $750K > ? (Arb 1 of 3)
    Aceves  $650K > ? (Arb 1 of 3)
    Bard       $505K > ? (Arb 1 of 4)
    DMac      $470K > ? (Arb 1 of 4)  Maybe Theo lets him walk or trades him.
    Lowrie    $450K > ? (Arb 1 of 3)
    Morales $424K > ? (Arb 1 of 3) Maybe he walks, but his replacement will not save much money.

    My guess is we keep all and we add about $10M to the 2011  budget here.

    There are option players:
    Scutaro  $6M club option/$3M player option ($1.5M buy out)
    Wheeler $3M club option (guaranteed if 65 games pitched reached)
    A. Miller  $3m club option ? (some gray area here)

    Assume we let all of them go for now, just to see what is leftover, and we can revisit bringing them back later. (Remember, Scutaro has a $1.5M buyout, so brining him back would cost just $4.5M more after the buyouy is counted. However, I have heard that the $1.5 buyout is if Scutaro wants his $3M player option.)

    We save about $12.5M minus the $1.5M buyout for a savings of about $11M.

    Then, there are FreeAgents:
    JD Drew    $14M  
    Ortiz          $12.5M
    Papelbon  $10.33M
    Varitek      $2M
    Wakefield $2M
    Bedard      $1M

    Let's wipe the slate clean just for argument's sake. We save a total of $42M.

    Add the losses of Cameron and Reyes: save about $8M.

    I am not sure about the Adrian Gonzalez deal. I think because it was signed after day one, his salary did not count on this year's budget, but his average yearly salary from 2012 to 2018 will be counted starting next year.  The Sox also extended Buch at about $8.5M per year. That's about $8M more than this year. That's an added cost of $23.5M from the 2011 budget.

    The pre-decision breakdown comes to  

    about $28M 

    to spend on filling all the holes from all the players 

    who had options or are FAs.

    Here are some possible in house solutions, if we decide not to bring some guys back:

    If Paps walks: Closer: (Bard? Jenks? Then, we'll need more set up men.) 
    If Papi walks: DH: Lavarnway and or Youk (Lowrie/Aviles/Middlebrooks at 3B)
    Drew will walk: RF: (Reddick, Kalish, DMac)
    If we lose Wakefield/Bedard: SP (Doubront, Weiland, and "Wally")
    If VTek walks: C (Lavarnway)
    If Wheeler walks: RP:  (Doubront, Bowden )

    That leaves this as the framework to work with...

    C: Salty (Lavarnway from DH)
    1B: AGon
    2B: Pedey
    3B: Youk
    SS: Aviles/Lowrie/Iglesias
    LF: Craw/DMac
    CF: Ells
    RF: Reddick/Kalish
    DH: Lavarnway or (Youk from 3B)

    SP1 Beckett
    SP2 Lester
    SP3 Buch
    SP4 Lack
    SP5 Dice (Injured until maybe August.)
    SP6 Doubront
    SP7 Weiland

    RP1 Bard
    RP2 Jenks
    RP3 Aceves
    RP4 Albers
    RP5 Morales
    RP6 Bowden

    To me, our 7 top priorities are:
    1) A solid #2/3 type starter or two starters of slot 3/4 quality.
    2) Closer 
    3) SS (Great fielder prefered)
    4) RF (RH'd and can field RF well)
    5) RP (at least 2)
    6) C (Hits LHPs well and can handle the staff)
    7) Bench

    Your civil, focused, and insightful Red Sox thoughts are welcome.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    2012 Salary Numbers (based on average annual salary + bonuses of player/years)

    Salty          $_____  ($750K/ 1st Arb  out of 3 years)

    AGon         $22M

    Pedroia       $6.7M

    Aviles        $____  ($640K/ 1st Arb  out of  3 years)

    Youkilis     $10.3M

    Crawford   $20.3M

    Ellsbury     $ _____ ($2.4M in ‘11/2nd Arb. year out of 3)

    Reddick     $_____  ($417K/no arb)

     

    Back-ups:

    Iglesias     $2.1M

    D.Mac      $____  ($470K/ 1st Arb out of 3 years)

    Lowrie     $____  ($450K/ 1st Arb out of 3 years) 

    Kalish      $____  ($417K/no arb)

    Lavarn.    $_____  ($   )

    Anderson $____  ($415K/ no arb)

    Exposito   $____  ($414K/no arb)

    Tejada      $____  ($414K/no arb)

     

    Beckett   $17M

    Lester       $6M

    Buch         $8.5M

    Lackey    $16.5M

    Dice-K       $8.7M

    Doubront $____  ($417K/no arb)

    Weiland   $____  ($  )

    Tazawa    $_____  ($1.1M/team control then 2 arb yrs)

    Pimental  $_____  ($414K/no arb)

     

    Bard          $____  ($505K/ 1st Arb out of 3 years)

    Aceves      $____  ($650K/ 1st Arb of 3 years)

    Jenks         $6M

    Albers       $____ ($875K/ 3rd Arb year out of 4)

    Atchison   $____ ($454K/no arb)

    Bowden    $____  (417K / no arb)

    Options:

    Scutaro: $6M club option/$3M player option ($1.5M buyout)

    Wheeler: $3M

    Miller:     $3M

    Free Agents (former avg. yearly salary): JD Drew: $14M , Ortiz: $12.5M, Papelbon: $12M, Jackson: $3.2M, T. Miller: $2M,  Varitek:   $2M, Wake: $2M,  Bedard:  $1M

     

    Gone: Cameron  (Sox paid $7.75M), Reyes (Sox paid $900K), Navarro   ($414K traded)

    Questionable: R. Hill  and J. Gathright 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Was that horse hoofs I hear outside?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]Was that horse hoofs I hear outside?
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]Is Nyatross drawing off?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]Please Carnie , one hell at a time. Niatross could teach the Sox a thing or two about endurance.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]H@ll, the '78 Sox could have taught this year's team a thing or two about endurance.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Sorry moon, I would bring back Papi and let Paps test the FA waters. Wheeler's option is cheap, and he had some moments where he looked good this year. I'd listen to offers for Youk. Jenks is here for another year, like it or not. Ells will probably not sign long term this year so his arby raise goes on the books. If I were GM I'd pick up Scutaro's option too. There aren't any free agent pitchers out there I can really get excited about. Maybe Chris Carpenter if he's healthy. I think one of Kalish, Reddick or Linares will be the starting right fielder, hopefully Linares as he bats right. Hopefully the new manager (whoever he is) can work with Crawford and Lackey to get them back to being some semblance of their former selves.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]Sorry moon, I would bring back Papi and let Paps test the FA waters. Wheeler's option is cheap, and he had some moments where he looked good this year. I'd listen to offers for Youk. Jenks is here for another year, like it or not. Ells will probably not sign long term this year so his arby raise goes on the books. If I were GM I'd pick up Scutaro's option too. There aren't any free agent pitchers out there I can really get excited about. Maybe Chris Carpenter if he's healthy. I think one of Kalish, Reddick or Linares will be the starting right fielder, hopefully Linares as he bats right. Hopefully the new manager (whoever he is) can work with Crawford and Lackey to get them back to being some semblance of their former selves.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    No need to be sorry. I have long said no closer but Mo is worth over $13M/yr let alone for 4+ years.

    I want Papi back too, but with Youk's health in question and lavarnway beating down the door, the writing may be on the wall.

    I'm not saying I am for this move, but assume we cut ties with Paps and trade Youk $12M to Cincy for closer Cordero $12M and prospects. We fill one slot without raising payroll. Youk's slot is filled by:
    Middlebrooks: May not be ready for 2011.
    Aviles vs career RHPs: .703
    Lowrie vs career LHPs: .919
    (Youk had about the worst fielding numbers at 3B in MLB in 2011.)

    This year Youk had an .833 OPS, but was hurt a lot. Our 3B OPS was .812.
    Combined, Aviles, Lowrie and Middlebrooks might come close to .812.

    That move frees up money to keep Papi, Scutaro and upgrade RF and pitching.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    To me, our 7 top priorities are:
    1) A solid #2/3 type starter or two starters of slot 3/4 quality.
    2) Closer 
    3) SS (Great fielder prefered)
    4) RF (RH'd and can field RF well)
    5) RP (at least 2)
    6) C (Hits LHPs well and can handle the staff)
    7) Bench

    Your civil, focused, and insightful Red Sox thoughts are welcome.

    1. CJ Wilson would be my first choice in Free Agency though he is going to be 31 next seasn and after the Lackey debacle managment may shy away from older Free Agent pitchers
    Other names include Roy Oswalt, Edwin Jackson(who is only 28 BTW), Mark Buehrle, Hiroki Kuroda, or maybe take a flyer on Brandon Webb who is coming back from several injuries and from 2006-2008 was a top 10 MLB starting pitcher.

    2. If Paps goes Bard appears to have the inside track.  In the debacle of the September meltdown people overreacted to his ineffectiveness.  My take is he was overused and fatigued.  I believe his September performance is not a long term concern and I think he could make the transition.

    3. Scutaro is an erratic fielder but at times makes some spectacular plays.  He has a solid bat and I would excercise his option for next season for the starting job and have a slick fielder as a backup, maybe Iglesias is ready by then?

    4. Ryan Kalish took a couple of steps backward this seaon but I always thought he had more upside than Reddick.  Maybe a competition between the 2 would sort things out nicely?

    5. Bullpen pieces are always a crapshoot.  I mean who seriously saw that first half from Albers? No one! Aceves comes back for sure he is far too valuable a commodity not to. Hopefully Bobby Jenks gives them something next year. Wheeler should be back as well and Bard obviously.  Beyond that the bullpen should be very different from this season including the very real possibility that Paps is not here.

    6. A Salty/ Lavarnway tandem looks to be a very real possibility with Lavarnway Dhing as well.

    7.I really like much of what I have seen from Mike Aviles,(he has some power and he is pretty fast as well) I would like to see him brought back. Lowrie probably leaves and D Mac may have saved his job with his late August/September performance which looked more like the 2010 D Mac. I think D Mac coming back however is a 50/50 proposition. Reddick and or Kalish may be on the bench(with the other getting most starts in RF) but we are awfully lefty heavy in outfielders giving D Mac a real shot at staying. There are many possibilities via Free agency or trades as well.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bgomez. Show bgomez's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    We must at least try for Sabathia. If we get him, great. If we don't, then at least we can drive the price up for whoever signs him.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    I'd love to have CC here. I hope he makes himself available.
    He won't be the next Lackey.

    We need to build from the top of the roation (at least by adding a solid #2/3 slot guy).

    I was for trying to get Santana.
    I was for trying to get Halladay (both times).
    I was for trying to get Cliff Lee (three times).
    I was for trying to get Felix (I gave up on that one).

    CJ Wilson is an interesting choice. True, he is 31, but he's only been a starter for 2 years and does not have the normal 31 y/o wear and tear on his arm/shoulder.

    It will be hard to trade for a frontline pitcher, but I'm tired of this team trying to build the staff from the bottom slots. It raely works. Teams like the Yanks (Colon & Garcia) and Detroit (Fister) got lucky.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    I think Lowrie is probably gone this year. I don't see us signing Sabathia and I'm not even sure he opts out. Looks a little risky to me. 

    the best thing about Scutaro is it's a 1 year deal at an actual cost of $4.5 mil. Surely he is worth that. We need some durability and he has been durable. Decent bat. I would love a better SS but we have other needs also.

    I know Youk is from Cincy but I don't know why they would want him. It's not great fit IMO.

    I vaguely remember Theo trying to get Buehrle via trade once but that was a while ago. None of those options are all that exciting to me. Wilson is the only prime beef.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Cincy has Scott Rolen at 3B now. He fits. They are not far from contending, but $12M is high for them.

    I suggested that if we let Paps walk, we could trade Youk for their closer Cordero and a good prospect. Both make $12M.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamme17. Show iamme17's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    Cincy has Scott Rolen at 3B now. He fits. They are not far from contending, but $12M is high for them. I suggested that if we let Paps walk, we could trade Youk for their closer Cordero and a good prospect. Both make $12M.
    Posted by moonslav59
    with Rolan's at 3rd and votto at first they have no need for a fairly expensive youk
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    With the prior season partially digested few thoughts:

    FA each year is a unique and free flowing market. Where the contract values will be set varies and the RS after the Crawford debacle can not afford to take best of market at new market high and hope for the best, that would include their own DH and Closer.

    BUT, in the case of the DH and closer, I'd bet on 3 years from Papelbon if the market stayed sane. We bag on this man a lot but step back and look at from a different view he is very solid guy (6 years - 30 plus saves) and his age is not scary. His retention makes snapping the rest of the bullpen together a snap.

    Ortiz? Never would have said this 6 weeks ago but unless the money is really what the aging DH market has been plus 10% and the years locked at 2, the should probably move on. Are the likely to get two more years like they just got? NO. Better perhaps to use Youk as a DH/corner OF depth guy, take the picks and patch at 3B.

    CJ Wilson scares me. That looks like the next bad RS FA signing if they do. His age etc. While it is luck bulding from the bottom, CJ Wilson is no Halliday or CC Sabathia.

    RH OF talent needs to addressed. It doesn't have to be a splash name but it is not realistic to expect what we got from Ellsbury this year and I just don't think the Crawford/DMac/Kalish/Reddick gets it done.

    I still like Kalish over Reddick eve after his very nice hot streak he used to take the job from JD Drew. Both players will require patience and a line-up that will have to cover them up sometimes. The team needs RH OFers. We can't count on Crawford IMO. He was over rated in Tampa, over paid in Boston. Even if he returns to his career norms, that guy is a lower third of the order guy in Boston with this line-up.

    The cost on Scutaro is certainly worth it versus rushing and possibly ruining Iggy or signing this year's Crawford to play SS (Reyes).

    Bedard would need  to be really inexpensive. The health track record is awful.

    Wake? Tough call. Depth is great. But Wake comes with some baggage. We have to keep him on a 25 man roster, his post 2009 injury numbers while there are lots of mitigating reasons that many post has been less than impressive and there is a level of noise with his quest to catch Clemens and Young.

    Tek is another question mark. Now as a back-up catcher he was nothing short of great this year IMO. The offense was what that position provides and while he has gone from bad to tragic with the running game as he has aged he is a fine backstop over all. But the issue here is he is a back-up no matter what. At his age he just can't strap on the gear for 4 to 5 games in a row. Injury or failure by the number catcher would be far more difficult to deal with if Tek is the #2 guy.

    In short to me Wake and Tek are tough decisions I personally would not want to have to make. 

    With Francona gone the coaching staff will get over hauled. Bogar is supposed to be a really bright baseball mind, so he may end up elsewhere in the organization but his time at 3rd is done. Young's fault or not, the team's 2011 ERA is his death warrant. If Hale doesn't get the manager's job, I don't see Tito's bench coach retained as bench coach or a move back to third where he really did have great reads in his career interest. Assuming Theo is staying Magadan will have a strong lobbyist in Epstein. At the end of the year the team's offensive production is impressive so he may stay. Tuck IMO after his work with Salty is a no brainer.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    Theo would give his left nut for a supplemental pick. Tek is gone IMO. I think they offer arbitration. He turns it down and signs elsewhere. OR he takes arb ( please God, talk him out of accepting arb? ). He's not going to get more than $2-$3 mil anywhere though so he might just take arb. New bride. Money in the bank. He might just take arb.

    We need to sell Ortiz high also. We need those picks and the cash saved even more than we need Ortiz. No doubt Ortiz was great this year. Who knows, he might take arb also.

    Arb isn't guaranteed money though. Financially, both players should walk.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    My gut is that Kevin Youkilis will be traded and 3B will be freed up for Aviles, Scutaro and perhaps Middlebrooks if he is ready.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    Theo would give his left nut for a supplemental pick. Tek is gone IMO. I think they offer arbitration. He turns it down and signs elsewhere. OR he takes arb ( please God, talk him out of accepting arb? ). He's not going to get more than $2-$3 mil anywhere though so he might just take arb. New bride. Money in the bank. He might just take arb. We need to sell Ortiz high also. We need those picks and the cash saved even more than we need Ortiz. No doubt Ortiz was great this year. Who knows, he might take arb also. Arb isn't guaranteed money though. Financially, both players should walk.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom
    The RS won't play the arbitration game with Varitek. He'll likely take it. It is questionable if the award would be less and I think he wants to finish his career here IMO.

    Ortiz OTOH is in line to get a multi-year deal and the very act of offering arbitration and not following it with a serious offer would send him on his way.

    Not a big fan of making decisions for picks. There are other reasons beyond the picks to do what you say howver and the picks never hurt. But in addition to the amateur draft the RS may need to be a bit more aggressive in the international market too.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : with Rolan's at 3rd and votto at first they have no need for a fairly expensive youk
    Posted by iamme17[/QUOTE]

    Scott Rolen will be 37 next year and maybe retired. 
    His OPS in 2011: .676

    Their back-up is Miguel Cairo, who will be 38 next year.

    If there ever was a team who needed Youk, it would be Cincy.

    The salary is high, but if we get Francisco Cordero in return, the money is even.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : Scott Rolen will be 37 next year and maybe retired.  His OPS in 2011: .676 Their back-up is Miguel Cairo, who will be 38 next year. If there ever was a team who needed Youk, it would be Cincy. The salary is high, but if we get Francisco Cordero in return, the money is even.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    Puts things in perspective.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : Scott Rolen will be 37 next year and maybe retired.  His OPS in 2011: .676 Their back-up is Miguel Cairo, who will be 38 next year. If there ever was a team who needed Youk, it would be Cincy. The salary is high, but if we get Francisco Cordero in return, the money is even.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Here's my idea and I mentioned it on another post.  How about Youkilis to San Fran for Jonathan Sanchez.

    Keep in mind, the free agent pitching class is headlined by Sabathia and Wilson and after that there isn't much left (except Buehrle). 

    San Fran missed out on the playoffs this year.  Only Seattle scored fewer runs than them.  They've needed bats since Bonds left and I think Youk would fit perfectly there.

    The Sox get back a strikeout guy with a lot of talent that can potentially serve as the #4.

    Just something to consider...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : Here's my idea and I mentioned it on another post.  How about Youkilis to San Fran for Jonathan Sanchez. Keep in mind, the free agent pitching class is headlined by Sabathia and Wilson and after that there isn't much left (except Buehrle).  San Fran missed out on the playoffs this year.  Only Seattle scored fewer runs than them.  They've needed bats since Bonds left and I think Youk would fit perfectly there. The Sox get back a strikeout guy with a lot of talent that can potentially serve as the #4. Just something to consider...
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    The problem with that swap is that the Giants are pinched for money and taking on Youk's contract would be suicide for them.  They have to deal with Lincecum and Wilson for next year and beyond and adding something like 12-15 mil for a player that will only average 120 games for them doesn't make sense.  They would be trading a 5-6 mil salary (assuming a new contract with Sanchez). Good pitching is impossible to find...good hitting is easy to find. That said the Sox should make that deal in a heartbeat. Sanchez is only 27.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : The problem with that swap is that the Giants are pinched for money and taking on Youk's contract would be suicide for them.  They have to deal with Lincecum and Wilson for next year and beyond and adding something like 12-15 mil for a player that will only average 120 games for them doesn't make sense.  They would be trading a 5-6 mil salary (assuming a new contract with Sanchez). Good pitching is impossible to find...good hitting is easy to find. That said the Sox should make that deal in a heartbeat. Sanchez is only 27.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]

    The Sox could always send some cash their way and maybe try to pick up a prospect out of the deal too?  Youkilis may end up being the best hitter on that team and he'd have guys like Sandoval and Posey to help as well.  The NL West has been a wide open division for several seasons now and the teams usually weighed to one side.  The Dodgers tend to have hitters but no pitchers.  The Padres tend to have some pitching but no hitters.  The Giants tend to have pitching but no hitters.  The Rockies tend to have hitters but no pitching.  The Diamondbacks flop back and forth.

    I believe that the Giants would part with one of their arms in order to get a top bat in return.  They can always decline Youk's 2013 option and just keep him for next season.

    Just a thought...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : Here's my idea and I mentioned it on another post.  How about Youkilis to San Fran for Jonathan Sanchez. Keep in mind, the free agent pitching class is headlined by Sabathia and Wilson and after that there isn't much left (except Buehrle).  San Fran missed out on the playoffs this year.  Only Seattle scored fewer runs than them.  They've needed bats since Bonds left and I think Youk would fit perfectly there. The Sox get back a strikeout guy with a lot of talent that can potentially serve as the #4. Just something to consider...
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    I'll admit I don't know much about this guy, but I see he walks about 4-5 per 9 IP. Maybe I'm overestimating Youk's value, but I think we can do better. Waht would SF do with Sandoval? The kid is 24 and just had a .909 OPS.

    SF needs a SS,  and OF'ers to bolster their offense, not a 3Bman.

    SF would love to dump Zito (12:$19M, 13:$20M, 14:$18M club option ($7M buyout)) I think they might give up someone really good, if we took Zito as part of the deal (a la FL with Lowell & Beckett). The option will not be exercised, so it comes to $46M/2 leftover.  Matt Cain gets $15M in 2012.

    I'd love to send them Lackey, Miller, Doubront, Lowrie and Reddick (or Kalish)
    for
    Cain and Zito


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : I'll admit I don't know much about this guy, but I see he walks about 4-5 per 9 IP. Maybe I'm overestimating Youk's value, but I think we can do better. Waht would SF do with Sandoval? The kid is 24 and just had a .909 OPS. SF needs a SS,  and OF'ers to bolster their offense, not a 3Bman. SF would love to dump Zito ( 12 :$19M,  13 :$20M,  14 :$18M club option ($7M buyout) ) I think they might give up someone really good, if we took Zito as part of the deal (a la FL with Lowell & Beckett). The option will not be exercised, so it comes to $46M/2 leftover.  Matt Cain gets $15M in 2012. I'd love to send them Lackey, Miller, Doubront, Lowrie and Reddick (or Kalish) for Cain and Zito
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Aubrey Huff is nearing his end and Youkilis can play 1B for them.  Unless the Sox can't re-sign Ortiz, I don't see a use for Youkilis on next year's roster.  He's probably our best trade chip because his contract is very reasonable and can end after 2012 if his option isn't picked up.

    In order to get rid of Lackey, we'd need to take back another bad contract in return.

    Lackey to the Cubs for Zambrano?
    Lackey to the Mets for Bay (I don't like this because it clogs up a farm system spot)

    Another poster through out Youkilis in a deal for Wright.

    Many options here.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I

    In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A Realistic look at 2012: Part I : Aubrey Huff is nearing his end and Youkilis can play 1B for them.  Unless the Sox can't re-sign Ortiz, I don't see a use for Youkilis on next year's roster.  He's probably our best trade chip because his contract is very reasonable and can end after 2012 if his option isn't picked up. In order to get rid of Lackey, we'd need to take back another bad contract in return. Lackey to the Cubs for Zambrano? Lackey to the Mets for Bay (I don't like this because it clogs up a farm system spot) Another poster through out Youkilis in a deal for Wright. Many options here.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    Good point on Youk to 1B in SF. I mentioned Zito as the balancer for Lackey.

    Lackey for Bay is a thought, if we move CC to RF, but I'd like to pry Santana and or Wright in a bigger deal if we have to take Bay.

    Youk, Lackey, CC, Lowrie or Iglesias (to replace Reyes), and Doubront
    for
    Wright, Santana, and Bay

     

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