A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Critter23's comment:

    Hey Pump, I agree the pitching has been going down.  I for one don't like to blame it all on Theo who is always going to get a pass from me for bringing us two championships in my lifetime.  I do agree the moves he made didn't work--but I think he was trying with Lackey, for example, and as much as I've been sour about him as a person, I think he can win 14/15 games this year.  I've been trying not to keep backing up and harping on this, but last year and the year before we were supposed to be great (some saying the WS was a lock, etc.) and our pitching was expected to be good.  Well, at the conlclusion of last year we KNEW we were no damn good--so why didn't we go out and get a #1 this year, buy, trade, sell, deal, steal, etc. since as you say we aren't going big time until we get one...and, if we're waiting for our promising youngsters, that's all good, but we have zero assurance that we have a #1.  Please, please don't anyone tell me it was a poor crop of free agents--take Ells, Iggy, one catcher, one reliever, one of our best minor league starters and/or one of our best minor league position players and I think you could get a #1 or a #2 who's young and almost a #1.  I think this deal could have been made with the Giants immediately after the season for example before they got their CF.  They have a lot of young blossoming pitching, but they're tighter with their budget than we are.  Maybe there's still some deal to be made there...

    As an aside, I have a hunch about Wright.  I just feel it.  It's a premise that's worked in this organization before, we have a guy who can work with him--you heard it here first.




    Its not entirely on Epstein, but IMO most of the blame lies there. After all, it was Epstein was was responsible for the personnel decisions during the recent decline. Yes, he tried with Lackey (and Beckett, for that matter), but he misevaluated their talent level. Thats a mistake, and its HIS mistake. He is not going to get a pass from me, even though he was largely responsible for the 07 ring (the 04 ring, thats a matter of debate; much of the team was already in place by when he arrived here). The bottom line is that during his tenure from 2008 until when he left the decline in pitching was obvious to even the most casual fan, but went uncorrected.

    As for Lackey, he cannot be worse (I hope) than he was in 2011, and I expect Lester to be a bit better. We still need a #1 SP and have for some time. Maybe this was not the year to do it. Maybe the eventual #1 is already in our minor league somewhere. Its a bit demoralizing for Sox fans to see the Yankees with CC and the Rays with Price and us with........Lester?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from cassvt2004. Show cassvt2004's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    When it comes to drafting and developing starters, I think Theo summed it up best in the Francona book.  He kept having to feed the beast that the Sox had become and ultimately changed his philosophy somewhere along the way to try to "win now" every year. After Lester, Papelbon (who was originally seen as a starter) and Buchholz, he either traded away or missed on the next couple years of high draft picks. Pimental was a relative bust (but it wouldn't surprise if he pitches well for the Pirates).  Britton is taking longer than expected to develop.  Ranaudo has dealt with injuries and inconsistencies.  Masterson, Hagadone and Casey Kelly all gone in trades, for basically Victor Martinez and Adrian Gonzalez, 2 guys that are also no longer here.  On top of all that, Dice-K only worked out for 2 of the 6 years we had him, and Lackey is yet to come close to living up to that contract.  That is the sum of how we got here, and now we must wait for Barnes, Webster, Owens and Rubby.  Fortunately the wait doesn't seem long now.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    ... Well, at the conlclusion of last year we KNEW we were no damn good--so why didn't we go out and get a #1 this year, buy, trade, sell, deal, steal, etc. since as you say we aren't going big time until we get one...and, if we're waiting for our promising youngsters, that's all good, but we have zero assurance that we have a #1.  Please, please don't anyone tell me it was a poor crop of free agents--take Ells, Iggy, one catcher, one reliever, one of our best minor league starters and/or one of our best minor league position players and I think you could get a #1 or a #2 who's young and almost a #1.  I think this deal could have been made with the Giants immediately after the season for example before they got their CF.  They have a lot of young blossoming pitching, but they're tighter with their budget than we are.  Maybe there's still some deal to be made there...

    I couldn't agree any more. It might have taken a little more than what you suggested, but we needed to try and get a "real" 1 or 2 slot starter under team control for 3+ years to really improve our future chances.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    The bottom line is that during his [Theo]  tenure from 2008 until when he left the decline in pitching was obvious to even the most casual fan, but went uncorrected.

    I did a post a while back on all of the major Theo moves since the Nomar trade: it didn't look pretty. Viewed in hindsight, which is how GMs are graded-right or wrong, it was a shockingly bad record. His farm-building moves helped offset the negative to some extent, but the fact is, the rotation got worse, and worse, and worse.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to cassvt2004's comment:

    When it comes to drafting and developing starters, I think Theo summed it up best in the Francona book.  He kept having to feed the beast that the Sox had become and ultimately changed his philosophy somewhere along the way to try to "win now" every year. After Lester, Papelbon (who was originally seen as a starter) and Buchholz, he either traded away or missed on the next couple years of high draft picks. Pimental was a relative bust (but it wouldn't surprise if he pitches well for the Pirates).  Britton is taking longer than expected to develop.  Ranaudo has dealt with injuries and inconsistencies.  Masterson, Hagadone and Casey Kelly all gone in trades, for basically Victor Martinez and Adrian Gonzalez, 2 guys that are also no longer here.  On top of all that, Dice-K only worked out for 2 of the 6 years we had him, and Lackey is yet to come close to living up to that contract.  That is the sum of how we got here, and now we must wait for Barnes, Webster, Owens and Rubby.  Fortunately the wait doesn't seem long now.




    Good summary here.

    On the underlined and bolded portion: We do have Barnes and Owens to show for losing VMart to free agency. We do have de la Rosa and Webster to show for part of the AGon deal.

    (We also have Ranaudo & Vitek for Billy Wagner and Buchholtz for Pedro.)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I understand why Ben made the decisions he made this winter. There is money to be made, and that is always the bottom line. However, I cannot help but think our extended future could have been so much clearer and brighter had we done a few of these things:

    1) Offered Papi $13M/1 year and let the chips fall where they may. Had he walked, we'd have a draft pick, $26M to spend or upgrade elsewhere and a chance to give Lava a long look at DH and the 2 slot catcher if we traded Salty or 3 slot otherwise.

    2) Trade Salty (perhaps as part of a package) for a prospect.

    3) Trade Ellsbury (with the likely attached draft pick) for a prospect or two.

    4) Trade any player who will be a FA after 2013 or 2014 that we do not plan on extending (Bailey, Aceves, Morales and/or Miller) for prospects.

    5) Sign Free Agents that will be in their prime for years 2014, 2015 and possibly beyond. (Signing some short-term "bridge players" would have been fine within this context.)

    6) Trade Lester for Wil Myers.

    7) Attempt to find an ace or strong #2 slot starter that is under team control beyong 2015 and pull the trigger, even if it meant weakening our farm (that was just stregthened by some of these moves listed above).

    8) Depending on what might have happened out of the above steps, perhaps we could have made a strong offer for J Upton or G Stanton.

    9) Give Iggy and maybe 1 of Linares or Brentz a look at the ML level this year.

    10) Possibly look to upgrade Doubront by packaging a player or two with him.

     

    I'm not saying we should have done all of these 10 ideas, but even 1 or 2 of these options would have shown some plan to improving our longterm future.

     

    (Note: much of this I have already suggested on other threads.)

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craig2174. Show craig2174's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Man, we sure sound like old timers...and I confess, I lived through that era also!

    It will be interesting to see what they do with the excess relievers. It seems like we should have a ton of depth in the pen. Particularly if Bard comes back as strong as I think he will.

    I think Doubront just faded at the end because he wasn't used to that many innings. He should be fine this year. And we have enough depth at the starting position to rest some guys if we can stay healthy at all. I would strongly consider moving Tazawa to back up starter. Stretch him out in AAA ball just in case.

     His last few starts were really strong though!




     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to craig2174's comment:

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

     

    Man, we sure sound like old timers...and I confess, I lived through that era also!

    It will be interesting to see what they do with the excess relievers. It seems like we should have a ton of depth in the pen. Particularly if Bard comes back as strong as I think he will.

    I think Doubront just faded at the end because he wasn't used to that many innings. He should be fine this year. And we have enough depth at the starting position to rest some guys if we can stay healthy at all. I would strongly consider moving Tazawa to back up starter. Stretch him out in AAA ball just in case.

     His last few starts were really strong though!

     

    Doubront's 2nd worst month was June (5.83 & 1.466 WHIP).


    His season was almost a perfect up and down from month to month.

    He never had over 112 pitches in any game in 2012.

    His last 4 starts were OK Earned Runs wise (9 in 26.1), but as always, his issue was BB (13 in 26.1).

     

     

     




     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    If Doubront can cut down on his free passes he could be a very serviceable middle of the rotation starter IMO.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    So, are Morales, Mortensen and Tazawa all slated for the pen?

    With Aceves back in his mid-long role, how much room is there for 3 more "long men"?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    So, are Morales, Mortensen and Tazawa all slated for the pen?

    With Aceves back in his mid-long role, how much room is there for 3 more "long men"?




    this is why i want Taz starting in AAA.. with so many relievers capable of pitching 4+ innings at a time how are we going to find innings to stretch him out in the MLB?? we don't. but that is also a good thing with our "uncertain" starting 5. a few bad starts in a row won't wear as heavily on our BP than it would if we had a BP full of strictly 1 and done guys and 1 long man.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    So, are Morales, Mortensen and Tazawa all slated for the pen?

    With Aceves back in his mid-long role, how much room is there for 3 more "long men"?

     




    this is why i want Taz starting in AAA.. with so many relievers capable of pitching 4+ innings at a time how are we going to find innings to stretch him out in the MLB?? we don't. but that is also a good thing with our "uncertain" starting 5. a few bad starts in a row won't wear as heavily on our BP than it would if we had a BP full of strictly 1 and done guys and 1 long man.

     



    I actually want Tazawa starting in MLB to start the season, but the fact that he starts somewhere should be the priority with Tazawa.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    I have one final defense of Theo.  He was pro-active, he tried to make moves, and yes a lot of them didn't work and we can all question some of them.  You might say any guy working for a big market team might have more freedom to make moves.  But that's not true in some markets and not just small market teams.  For example, the Giants over the last 15 years--and remember now, they've won two WS, have been crying in the streets for a power hitter in some years, and did they go get one--no.  Make do.  Hope the young guys come along.  Pick up someone like Huff and hope it works out.  Don't go over the 140/150 million budget.  Even last year they didn't go get a closer and in my opinion lucked out with a guy who rose to the occasion even though he's not a real closer.  I know people aren't going to change their views of Theo, but I think a lot of factors were in play, he didn't always make the ultimate decisions, etc.  But he would take chances, make trades, trade Nomar, get Lowell, pull in a role player, to try to make the club better.  There are many ball towns where fans wait forever for someone to make a move that's obvious. 

    While mentioning the Giants, I think Moon discussed the possibility of Linsecum last spring.  He had an off year last year, very erratic from inning to inning and game to game.  His arm and stuff seemed fine, and I think most said he'd gotten into some bad habits leading to bad mechanics.  I think he still won 11 or 12 games and they were patient with him all season, he made all his starts, but with the WS close they decided to go with Zito, make him the long reliever, and try to straighten out his mechanics next year.  He's still young, was lights out in the WS, has won two rings.  Cain got annointed their #1 amidst all this, and are they going to pay two 20 million dollar pitchers?  Anyone think this would be worth exploring?  There was no visible griping about being sent to the pen for the WS but who knows what he might have thought of that.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to Critter23's comment:

     

    I have one final defense of Theo.  He was pro-active, he tried to make moves, and yes a lot of them didn't work and we can all question some of them.  You might say any guy working for a big market team might have more freedom to make moves.  But that's not true in some markets and not just small market teams.  For example, the Giants over the last 15 years--and remember now, they've won two WS, have been crying in the streets for a power hitter in some years, and did they go get one--no.  Make do.  Hope the young guys come along.  Pick up someone like Huff and hope it works out.  Don't go over the 140/150 million budget.  Even last year they didn't go get a closer and in my opinion lucked out with a guy who rose to the occasion even though he's not a real closer.  I know people aren't going to change their views of Theo, but I think a lot of factors were in play, he didn't always make the ultimate decisions, etc.  But he would take chances, make trades, trade Nomar, get Lowell, pull in a role player, to try to make the club better.  There are many ball towns where fans wait forever for someone to make a move that's obvious. 

    While mentioning the Giants, I think Moon discussed the possibility of Linsecum last spring.  He had an off year last year, very erratic from inning to inning and game to game.  His arm and stuff seemed fine, and I think most said he'd gotten into some bad habits leading to bad mechanics.  I think he still won 11 or 12 games and they were patient with him all season, he made all his starts, but with the WS close they decided to go with Zito, make him the long reliever, and try to straighten out his mechanics next year.  He's still young, was lights out in the WS, has won two rings.  Cain got annointed their #1 amidst all this, and are they going to pay two 20 million dollar pitchers?  Anyone think this would be worth exploring?  There was no visible griping about being sent to the pen for the WS but who knows what he might have thought of that.

     

     



    Do you mean trade for him (he makes $22M this year- his last on his deal)?  Or get him as a FA next winter?

     

    If we traded and extended, I could see the logic... like maybe trading Ellsbury, Salty, Morales, and a low prospect for Lincecum (extended) and Hector Sanchez.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    So, are Morales, Mortensen and Tazawa all slated for the pen?

    With Aceves back in his mid-long role, how much room is there for 3 more "long men"?

     




    this is why i want Taz starting in AAA.. with so many relievers capable of pitching 4+ innings at a time how are we going to find innings to stretch him out in the MLB?? we don't. but that is also a good thing with our "uncertain" starting 5. a few bad starts in a row won't wear as heavily on our BP than it would if we had a BP full of strictly 1 and done guys and 1 long man.

     




    They can stretch him out in ST like Aceves and Morales. Maybe they talked to him about his offseason program as well. I dont know, just guessing.

    I would like to see him as an option to start, but the way he pitched and was basically a lights out stopper last year I think he could be a good closer too...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to Critter23's comment:

     

    I have one final defense of Theo.  He was pro-active, he tried to make moves, and yes a lot of them didn't work and we can all question some of them.  You might say any guy working for a big market team might have more freedom to make moves.  But that's not true in some markets and not just small market teams.  For example, the Giants over the last 15 years--and remember now, they've won two WS, have been crying in the streets for a power hitter in some years, and did they go get one--no.  Make do.  Hope the young guys come along.  Pick up someone like Huff and hope it works out.  Don't go over the 140/150 million budget.  Even last year they didn't go get a closer and in my opinion lucked out with a guy who rose to the occasion even though he's not a real closer.  I know people aren't going to change their views of Theo, but I think a lot of factors were in play, he didn't always make the ultimate decisions, etc.  But he would take chances, make trades, trade Nomar, get Lowell, pull in a role player, to try to make the club better.  There are many ball towns where fans wait forever for someone to make a move that's obvious. 

    While mentioning the Giants, I think Moon discussed the possibility of Linsecum last spring.  He had an off year last year, very erratic from inning to inning and game to game.  His arm and stuff seemed fine, and I think most said he'd gotten into some bad habits leading to bad mechanics.  I think he still won 11 or 12 games and they were patient with him all season, he made all his starts, but with the WS close they decided to go with Zito, make him the long reliever, and try to straighten out his mechanics next year.  He's still young, was lights out in the WS, has won two rings.  Cain got annointed their #1 amidst all this, and are they going to pay two 20 million dollar pitchers?  Anyone think this would be worth exploring?  There was no visible griping about being sent to the pen for the WS but who knows what he might have thought of that.

     

     



    Do you mean trade for him (he makes $22M this year- his last on his deal)?  Or get him as a FA next winter?

     

    If we traded and extended, I could see the logic... like maybe trading Ellsbury, Salty, Morales, and a low prospect for Lincecum (extended) and Hector Sanchez.

     




    trade 2 guys with 1yr left and a bullpen arm/possible starter who had control issues last time he was a starter?

     

    If the Sox could work a deal for an extension before a trade Id say SF would want a legit pitching prospect back along with another top prospect for both of those guys...Then another couple low-level prospects...

    If Im the SF GM Id start with one of RDLR/Webster/Barnes (replace TL)then probably get Bailey to close with 2yrs left of control (Sanchez). Id also ask for someone like Brentz for a little power and one other prospect.

    Im not totally sure of SF needs, but I think thats a bit more realistic for a 2 time CY winner and a cost controled closer

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to Critter23's comment:

     

    I have one final defense of Theo.  He was pro-active, he tried to make moves, and yes a lot of them didn't work and we can all question some of them.  You might say any guy working for a big market team might have more freedom to make moves.  But that's not true in some markets and not just small market teams.  For example, the Giants over the last 15 years--and remember now, they've won two WS, have been crying in the streets for a power hitter in some years, and did they go get one--no.  Make do.  Hope the young guys come along.  Pick up someone like Huff and hope it works out.  Don't go over the 140/150 million budget.  Even last year they didn't go get a closer and in my opinion lucked out with a guy who rose to the occasion even though he's not a real closer.  I know people aren't going to change their views of Theo, but I think a lot of factors were in play, he didn't always make the ultimate decisions, etc.  But he would take chances, make trades, trade Nomar, get Lowell, pull in a role player, to try to make the club better.  There are many ball towns where fans wait forever for someone to make a move that's obvious. 

    While mentioning the Giants, I think Moon discussed the possibility of Linsecum last spring.  He had an off year last year, very erratic from inning to inning and game to game.  His arm and stuff seemed fine, and I think most said he'd gotten into some bad habits leading to bad mechanics.  I think he still won 11 or 12 games and they were patient with him all season, he made all his starts, but with the WS close they decided to go with Zito, make him the long reliever, and try to straighten out his mechanics next year.  He's still young, was lights out in the WS, has won two rings.  Cain got annointed their #1 amidst all this, and are they going to pay two 20 million dollar pitchers?  Anyone think this would be worth exploring?  There was no visible griping about being sent to the pen for the WS but who knows what he might have thought of that.

     

     



    Do you mean trade for him (he makes $22M this year- his last on his deal)?  Or get him as a FA next winter?

     

    If we traded and extended, I could see the logic... like maybe trading Ellsbury, Salty, Morales, and a low prospect for Lincecum (extended) and Hector Sanchez.

     




    trade 2 guys with 1yr left and a bullpen arm/possible starter who had control issues last time he was a starter?

     

    If the Sox could work a deal for an extension before a trade Id say SF would want a legit pitching prospect back along with another top prospect for both of those guys...Then another couple low-level prospects...

    If Im the SF GM Id start with one of RDLR/Webster/Barnes (replace TL)then probably get Bailey to close with 2yrs left of control (Sanchez). Id also ask for someone like Brentz for a little power and one other prospect.

    Im not totally sure of SF needs, but I think thats a bit more realistic for a 2 time CY winner and a cost controled closer



    A lot of teams obviously looked into Lincecum this off season and were told that he's not available. He's a big part of that organization, on and off the field, and he loves it there. They supposedly fully intend to resign him and my guess is that it happens before the end of this upcoming season.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to ampoule's comment:

    In response to jidgef's comment:

     

    In response to Critter23's comment:

     

    Moon, thanks for your stewardship.  I'm getting excited now that ST is close.  Can you tell me about Crain?

    Jid, I can't tell you how jealous I am.  About two more years for me until retirement and I hope to be living down there nearby so I can go to all those games too. I hope you can give us some updates, reports, thumbnails on what you see.  If you don't have a computer or take one, I'm going to recommend we chip in and buy you one just for these reports.

    Boom, the juices are flowing now.  You won't have to reprimand me again for a while.  I'm your Polly now and liking it as much as I can.  I've got to stop now as this sounds like a couple of incarcerated guys instead of baseball fans.  Go Sox!

     



    Crit, I have the laptop, it's internet that will not always be available. I take care of my father-in-law (wheelchair bound) and he doesn't know how to spel komputa. But he has the season tickets! Last year I got out a few times to local coffee shops and the like and will do my best to do the same this year. I'm getting excited as well. Last year I felt the season was doomed late in Spring Training because of the players' obvious dislike for Bobby. I expect a much more professional camp this year under Farrell.

     

     




     

    Jid,

    The Mrs. and I may be going to spring training.  It'd be great to say hello for real.

    I'll keep you posted.



    Amp, I'm there from Feb 19th until April 3rd and should see every game. Our seats are in the handicapped section right behind the first base dugout. Would love to see you and the brains of the outfit;)

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    A lot of teams obviously looked into Lincecum this off season and were told that he's not available. He's a big part of that organization, on and off the field, and he loves it there. They supposedly fully intend to resign him and my guess is that it happens before the end of this upcoming season.

    I agree that SF will probably extend him, and athey might want Doubront or Tazawa instead of Morales, but $22M is a lot of money to SF, especially with Cain's big deal. 

    I also think that GMs rarely say any player is "unavailable". They just say no to an offer that is not big enough to persuade them. I don't know how many times I have read a player is "unavailable" shortly before being traded.

     

    I may be wrong about what I am about to say, but sometimes I get the feeling that you think every signing or trade than Ben has not made was always unrealistic or impossible, and even at times, not even worthy of discussion.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/2013/02/09/daniel-bard-red-sox-the-road-back/5obfrPtGQN8p2goHIrJWxN/story.html

    it looks like Bard is back in the drivers seat. I knew time away was just the thing he needed to get his mind and his arm straightened out. I was kind of depending on Bard starting the season in AAA but it looks likely that he will return to form. This crowds our BP even more (side note: BC says that the team is unlikely to tinker with the roster further so it's doubtful we trade a reliever) because most of us when predicting our BP haven't even included Bard in the conversations. That's a good problem to have though. Think we start the season with 1 extra pitcher on the 25?

     

    Aceves is also playing in the WBC and is going to be a starter (which will reduce the amount of innings he will need to pitch in ST meaning more innings for other pitchers).

    Baseball is right around the corner!!!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to Critter23's comment:

     

    I have one final defense of Theo.  He was pro-active, he tried to make moves, and yes a lot of them didn't work and we can all question some of them.  You might say any guy working for a big market team might have more freedom to make moves.  But that's not true in some markets and not just small market teams.  For example, the Giants over the last 15 years--and remember now, they've won two WS, have been crying in the streets for a power hitter in some years, and did they go get one--no.  Make do.  Hope the young guys come along.  Pick up someone like Huff and hope it works out.  Don't go over the 140/150 million budget.  Even last year they didn't go get a closer and in my opinion lucked out with a guy who rose to the occasion even though he's not a real closer.  I know people aren't going to change their views of Theo, but I think a lot of factors were in play, he didn't always make the ultimate decisions, etc.  But he would take chances, make trades, trade Nomar, get Lowell, pull in a role player, to try to make the club better.  There are many ball towns where fans wait forever for someone to make a move that's obvious. 

    While mentioning the Giants, I think Moon discussed the possibility of Linsecum last spring.  He had an off year last year, very erratic from inning to inning and game to game.  His arm and stuff seemed fine, and I think most said he'd gotten into some bad habits leading to bad mechanics.  I think he still won 11 or 12 games and they were patient with him all season, he made all his starts, but with the WS close they decided to go with Zito, make him the long reliever, and try to straighten out his mechanics next year.  He's still young, was lights out in the WS, has won two rings.  Cain got annointed their #1 amidst all this, and are they going to pay two 20 million dollar pitchers?  Anyone think this would be worth exploring?  There was no visible griping about being sent to the pen for the WS but who knows what he might have thought of that.

     

     



    Do you mean trade for him (he makes $22M this year- his last on his deal)?  Or get him as a FA next winter?

     

    If we traded and extended, I could see the logic... like maybe trading Ellsbury, Salty, Morales, and a low prospect for Lincecum (extended) and Hector Sanchez.

     




    trade 2 guys with 1yr left and a bullpen arm/possible starter who had control issues last time he was a starter?

     

    If the Sox could work a deal for an extension before a trade Id say SF would want a legit pitching prospect back along with another top prospect for both of those guys...Then another couple low-level prospects...

    If Im the SF GM Id start with one of RDLR/Webster/Barnes (replace TL)then probably get Bailey to close with 2yrs left of control (Sanchez). Id also ask for someone like Brentz for a little power and one other prospect.

    Im not totally sure of SF needs, but I think thats a bit more realistic for a 2 time CY winner and a cost controled closer

     



    A lot of teams obviously looked into Lincecum this off season and were told that he's not available. He's a big part of that organization, on and off the field, and he loves it there. They supposedly fully intend to resign him and my guess is that it happens before the end of this upcoming season.

     

     




    Yeah, I read Sabean saying that when everyone here started in about trading for him.

     

    I just didnt think what Moon proposed for him and Sanchez was realistic...Although I agree with his view on GM's saying guys arent available when they actually could be. I just think if they were to consider trading the 2 mentioned, the Sox would have to have a couple guys in the top 5 as well as some MLB ready players involved. It would seem more like a 5 or 6 for 2 deal with some big names involved.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to mef429's comment:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/2013/02/09/daniel-bard-red-sox-the-road-back/5obfrPtGQN8p2goHIrJWxN/story.html

    it looks like Bard is back in the drivers seat. I knew time away was just the thing he needed to get his mind and his arm straightened out. I was kind of depending on Bard starting the season in AAA but it looks likely that he will return to form. This crowds our BP even more (side note: BC says that the team is unlikely to tinker with the roster further so it's doubtful we trade a reliever) because most of us when predicting our BP haven't even included Bard in the conversations. That's a good problem to have though. Think we start the season with 1 extra pitcher on the 25?

     

    Aceves is also playing in the WBC and is going to be a starter (which will reduce the amount of innings he will need to pitch in ST meaning more innings for other pitchers).

    Baseball is right around the corner!!!




    Bard will be back hitting triple digits again this year. Lackey will surprise as well...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Doubront is building up his innings. He really had never pitched many innings in a year before. It is interesting that Bill James projects him as a 202 innings guy in 2013 with an ERA of 3.70. We will take that. Young pitchers take a while to assimilate into MLB usually. That is a lot of confidence shown in a guy by one of the most respected analysts in the business. I remain pretty confident that the starting pitching staff improves substantially this year.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    Pollyanna forever!

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2013: Part II

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:

    Doubront is building up his innings. He really had never pitched many innings in a year before. It is interesting that Bill James projects him as a 202 innings guy in 2013 with an ERA of 3.70. We will take that. Young pitchers take a while to assimilate into MLB usually. That is a lot of confidence shown in a guy by one of the most respected analysts in the business. I remain pretty confident that the starting pitching staff improves substantially this year.



    I'd be surprised if Doubie goes 180 and 4.30, but I hope Bill is right.

     

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