A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    Yeah.....maybe I'll get a little more respect around here now!!! ..LOL..  ala Rodney Dangerfield..

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soph. Show Soph's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is more about 2015 than 2014, but looking ahead is part of what we do today...

    We will have a lot of money to spend after 2014.

    Lackey will be at the minimum for 2015, unless we rework his deal (extend a year?)

    Lester will probably be extended after the season starts so as not to hurt this year's luxury limit number.

    However, it will NOT be easy to replace (about $20M total):

    Ortiz ($15.5M)

    Uehara ($4.25M)

     

    These can probably be replaced at a cheaper cost (about $50M for 2014):

    Peavy ($14.5M) & Dempster ($13.25M): Workman, Britton, Webster, Ranaudo, Barnes, Owens, Wright, Hinojosa or others.

    Pierzynski ($8.25M) & D Ross ($3.1M): Vazquez, Lavarnway, Butler, Swihart, Denny

    J Gomes ($5M): Hassan, Brentz (Betts/Cecchini?)

    Badenhop (TBA) & Miller (TBA): (see SP list above), de la Rosa,  A Wilson, Noe Ramirez, C Hernandez, T Layne, J Ely, Watanabe

     

    Before any signings or extensions, here's what 2015 looks like....

    25 man roster             (position move or minors):

    C: Lavarnway/Vazquez (Butler/Swihart/Denny

    1B: Napoli/Carp (Middlebrooks/Snyder/T Shaw)

    2B: Pedroia/Herrera (Betts/Rijo/Coyle)

    3B: Middlebrooks (Devers)

    SS: Bogaerts (Holt/Marrero/Vinicio/Lin)

    LF: Nava/Hassan (Carp/Linares/de la Cruz)

    CF: Bradley (H Ramos/Margot)

    RF: Victorino (Brentz)

    DH: Cecchini (Nava/Carp/Lavarnway/Napoli/Betts)

    SP: Buccholz, Lackey, Doubront, Workman, Britton, Webster

          (Barnes, Ranaudo, Owens, Wright, Hinojosa, de la Rosa,

           B Johnson, T Ball, Stankiewicz, L Diaz)

    RP: Mujica, Tazawa, Breslow, de la Rosa, Villareal, A Wilson

           (Hernandez, Ely, Layne, Watanabe, N Ramirez, Kurcz, Balcom-Miller)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Free agent class for 2015 looks weak? We can make QO to Lester,Ortz and maybe Peavy if he does well this year and no young arm steps up. With qualifying offer, I doubt Ortz will be singable by any other team. Teams that can afford him already have position players in their back end of their contract that will need to shift over to DH (yankees). I would keep signing him for $15M as long as he's around 30 HR and 100 RBIs.

    Do we make a run at Hanley? We still have few years before having to deal with Boras for Bradley Jr and Xander Bogaerts.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to Soph's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is more about 2015 than 2014, but looking ahead is part of what we do today...

    We will have a lot of money to spend after 2014.

    Lackey will be at the minimum for 2015, unless we rework his deal (extend a year?)

    Lester will probably be extended after the season starts so as not to hurt this year's luxury limit number.

    However, it will NOT be easy to replace (about $20M total):

    Ortiz ($15.5M)

    Uehara ($4.25M)

     

    These can probably be replaced at a cheaper cost (about $50M for 2014):

    Peavy ($14.5M) & Dempster ($13.25M): Workman, Britton, Webster, Ranaudo, Barnes, Owens, Wright, Hinojosa or others.

    Pierzynski ($8.25M) & D Ross ($3.1M): Vazquez, Lavarnway, Butler, Swihart, Denny

    J Gomes ($5M): Hassan, Brentz (Betts/Cecchini?)

    Badenhop (TBA) & Miller (TBA): (see SP list above), de la Rosa,  A Wilson, Noe Ramirez, C Hernandez, T Layne, J Ely, Watanabe

     

    Before any signings or extensions, here's what 2015 looks like....

    25 man roster             (position move or minors):

    C: Lavarnway/Vazquez (Butler/Swihart/Denny

    1B: Napoli/Carp (Middlebrooks/Snyder/T Shaw)

    2B: Pedroia/Herrera (Betts/Rijo/Coyle)

    3B: Middlebrooks (Devers)

    SS: Bogaerts (Holt/Marrero/Vinicio/Lin)

    LF: Nava/Hassan (Carp/Linares/de la Cruz)

    CF: Bradley (H Ramos/Margot)

    RF: Victorino (Brentz)

    DH: Cecchini (Nava/Carp/Lavarnway/Napoli/Betts)

    SP: Buccholz, Lackey, Doubront, Workman, Britton, Webster

          (Barnes, Ranaudo, Owens, Wright, Hinojosa, de la Rosa,

           B Johnson, T Ball, Stankiewicz, L Diaz)

    RP: Mujica, Tazawa, Breslow, de la Rosa, Villareal, A Wilson

           (Hernandez, Ely, Layne, Watanabe, N Ramirez, Kurcz, Balcom-Miller)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Free agent class for 2015 looks weak? We can make QO to Lester,Ortz and maybe Peavy if he does well this year and no young arm steps up. With qualifying offer, I doubt Ortz will be singable by any other team. Teams that can afford him already have position players in their back end of their contract that will need to shift over to DH (yankees). I would keep signing him for $15M as long as he's around 30 HR and 100 RBIs.

    Do we make a run at Hanley? We still have few years before having to deal with Boras for Bradley Jr and Xander Bogaerts.

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't think Hanley would be a good fit.  With his reputation, he'd contaminate the clubhouse.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soph. Show Soph's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    Key is pitching. You need a quality pitcher to take the mound 162 times a year. Obviously back of the game must also be protected. I think we have that right now going into 2014. 

    I'd like to see a stat showing average run differential per game with a qualifier thrown in....no more than + or - 5 runs maximum assigned per game. I don't want 21-5 game distorting the run differential average. I am using 5 runs because that lead is still protected even after giving up a grand slam home run, if that makes sense.

    okay, I'm getting off track.

    2016 will also be interesting when Victorino and Napoli come off our payroll. It would be nice to pencile in Pedroia, Bradley Jr, Xander and Will through 2021. Catching depth seems to be there.   1st base I think is easiest to fill. All we need at that point would be corner outfielders.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soph. Show Soph's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to ampoule's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Soph's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This is more about 2015 than 2014, but looking ahead is part of what we do today...

    We will have a lot of money to spend after 2014.

    Lackey will be at the minimum for 2015, unless we rework his deal (extend a year?)

    Lester will probably be extended after the season starts so as not to hurt this year's luxury limit number.

    However, it will NOT be easy to replace (about $20M total):

    Ortiz ($15.5M)

    Uehara ($4.25M)

     

    These can probably be replaced at a cheaper cost (about $50M for 2014):

    Peavy ($14.5M) & Dempster ($13.25M): Workman, Britton, Webster, Ranaudo, Barnes, Owens, Wright, Hinojosa or others.

    Pierzynski ($8.25M) & D Ross ($3.1M): Vazquez, Lavarnway, Butler, Swihart, Denny

    J Gomes ($5M): Hassan, Brentz (Betts/Cecchini?)

    Badenhop (TBA) & Miller (TBA): (see SP list above), de la Rosa,  A Wilson, Noe Ramirez, C Hernandez, T Layne, J Ely, Watanabe

     

    Before any signings or extensions, here's what 2015 looks like....

    25 man roster             (position move or minors):

    C: Lavarnway/Vazquez (Butler/Swihart/Denny

    1B: Napoli/Carp (Middlebrooks/Snyder/T Shaw)

    2B: Pedroia/Herrera (Betts/Rijo/Coyle)

    3B: Middlebrooks (Devers)

    SS: Bogaerts (Holt/Marrero/Vinicio/Lin)

    LF: Nava/Hassan (Carp/Linares/de la Cruz)

    CF: Bradley (H Ramos/Margot)

    RF: Victorino (Brentz)

    DH: Cecchini (Nava/Carp/Lavarnway/Napoli/Betts)

    SP: Buccholz, Lackey, Doubront, Workman, Britton, Webster

          (Barnes, Ranaudo, Owens, Wright, Hinojosa, de la Rosa,

           B Johnson, T Ball, Stankiewicz, L Diaz)

    RP: Mujica, Tazawa, Breslow, de la Rosa, Villareal, A Wilson

           (Hernandez, Ely, Layne, Watanabe, N Ramirez, Kurcz, Balcom-Miller)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Free agent class for 2015 looks weak? We can make QO to Lester,Ortz and maybe Peavy if he does well this year and no young arm steps up. With qualifying offer, I doubt Ortz will be singable by any other team. Teams that can afford him already have position players in their back end of their contract that will need to shift over to DH (yankees). I would keep signing him for $15M as long as he's around 30 HR and 100 RBIs.

    Do we make a run at Hanley? We still have few years before having to deal with Boras for Bradley Jr and Xander Bogaerts.

    [/QUOTE]


    I don't think Hanley would be a good fit.  With his reputation, he'd contaminate the clubhouse.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would agree.....no bad actors need apply.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    What are the odds that we see the return of Peavey, Doubront anf Dempster? I think either Peavey or Dempstet will be gone before the season starts. I think the Sox work with Doubront one more year but I would not be surprised to see him dealt before the season is out.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jidgef's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I thought about boycotting BDC because of the lack of love I'm receiving on all the best poster threads, but I got over my depression quickly enough to get caught up here. I hope you all had good Holidays and have a happy and healthy new year. This is basically the only thread I post on, and I don't do that too often, so I'm not really in a position to discuss, nor be nominated, as best poster. Now back to baseball...

    I don't think there is a staff in baseball as deep from the major league starting five/six to the lower levels of the minors than this present Red Sox team. That being said, I also subscribe to the adage that you can never have enough pitching. But that being said, I think throwing upwards of $20mil per season, for as many as six/seven years, to a pitcher who has essentially never pitched a game at a level above high A or AA ball, is absolutely absurd! Now this Tanaka guy could prove me completely wrong, but I still would not do it. Ask yourselves this question. If there was no MLB draft and every high school or college player was a free agent, and one of them had a record like Tanaka's from last season in his senior year of high school or any year of college, would you chase him down, pay his high school or college $20mil and then offer him $150mil for seven years having never seen him thrown a pitch to a professional lineup? Dice K and Darvish pitched on much bigger stages both in Japan and in the World Classic and therefore were much more proven. And although very well compensated, neither commanded the money being discussed with regard to Tanaka. At the risk of having much egg on my face if and when he comes into the league and dazzles, I say put the checkbook away!

    [/QUOTE]

    There is a history of paying big money for pitchers from Japan, but Tanaka is going to break the record.

    He's 25 not a HS or college grad.

    [/QUOTE]

    Moon my point was more about the level of competition Tanaka has faced, not his age. I was also trying to point out that the numbers being discussed for Tanaka are way more than has ever been handed to a Japanese or any other inexperienced pitcher. I included the disclaimer that I may end up with egg on my face (wouldn't be the first time), but at these dollars and looking at his limited experience against quality hitters, I say pass. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soph. Show Soph's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What are the odds that we see the return of Peavey, Doubront anf Dempster? I think either Peavey or Dempstet will be gone before the season starts. I think the Sox work with Doubront one more year but I would not be surprised to see him dealt before the season is out.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are probably right about Dempster but not so sure about Doubront. Dempster and Doubront started 29 games apiece, total of 58 games. For me there's still question mark about Buchholz. Not his talent but his durability. He seems so fragile, one pitch away from injury reserve. 

    Lester, Peavy and Lackey are pretty solid in my opinion. Someone from the young guns may emerge during spring. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    I think Doubront made believers out of most of Red Sox management last year, especially the way he responded to his "demotion" in the playoffs. I said at the start of last season that by mid-year he could be an ace or be back in Pawtucket. It looks like the maturity finally kicked in to go along with his outstanding stuff. At his controllable price and talent level I don't see him going anywhere except to the bump 30 times for us this year!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    There is a history of paying big money for pitchers from Japan, but Tanaka is going to break the record.

    He's 25 not a HS or college grad.

    [/QUOTE]

    Moon my point was more about the level of competition Tanaka has faced, not his age. I was also trying to point out that the numbers being discussed for Tanaka are way more than has ever been handed to a Japanese or any other inexperienced pitcher. I included the disclaimer that I may end up with egg on my face (wouldn't be the first time), but at these dollars and looking at his limited experience against quality hitters, I say pass. 

    I understand, but I think more and more baseball scouts are able to determine how good these Japanese pitchers are based on their body of work in Japan and with direct observations.

    I know it's a big gamble, and I'm not sure I'd pay what he ends up getting, but I like the idea of going strong for a 25 year old pitcher with no lost draft pick attached and his prime ahead of him.

    (I could have egg on my face, if you don't.) 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soph. Show Soph's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is a history of paying big money for pitchers from Japan, but Tanaka is going to break the record.

    He's 25 not a HS or college grad.

    [/QUOTE]

    Moon my point was more about the level of competition Tanaka has faced, not his age. I was also trying to point out that the numbers being discussed for Tanaka are way more than has ever been handed to a Japanese or any other inexperienced pitcher. I included the disclaimer that I may end up with egg on my face (wouldn't be the first time), but at these dollars and looking at his limited experience against quality hitters, I say pass. 

    I understand, but I think more and more baseball scouts are able to determine how good these Japanese pitchers are based on their body of work in Japan and with direct observations.

    I know it's a big gamble, and I'm not sure I'd pay what he ends up getting, but I like the idea of going strong for a 25 year old pitcher with no lost draft pick attached and his prime ahead of him.

    (I could have egg on my face, if you don't.) 

    [/QUOTE]

    I hate to be that guy but Tanaka to Sox would mean Yankees still in need of pitching.....hummm...not a bad thing...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to jidgef's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Doubront made believers out of most of Red Sox management last year, especially the way he responded to his "demotion" in the playoffs. I said at the start of last season that by mid-year he could be an ace or be back in Pawtucket. It looks like the maturity finally kicked in to go along with his outstanding stuff. At his controllable price and talent level I don't see him going anywhere except to the bump 30 times for us this year!

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree. Doubront took a nice step forward last year, and his first of 3 arbs begins next winter, so the low cost should keep him around.

    I'll admit, I have been pretty harsh on Felix, particularly his conditioning and high WHIP. I still think he showed signs of hitting a wall last year and his 1.429 WHIP was still too high for my liking, but I think he showed he was on the right track. I hope he continues improving and staying focused with his conditioning.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    If Doubront can replicate what he did this year next year as our #5 I'd be happy as heck. I think he has already achieved more than I ever expected. I like his poise oin the mound. He handled the pressure of the World Series well. I bet lots of teams are asking about him already.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

     

     

     

    Boston Red Sox: Evaluating Team's Strengths and Weaknesses Entering 2014

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Doubront can replicate what he did this year next year as our #5 I'd be happy as heck. I think he has already achieved more than I ever expected. I like his poise oin the mound. He handled the pressure of the World Series well. I bet lots of teams are asking about him already.

    [/QUOTE]

    He did look good in his 7 playoff IP, but he did fall off at the end of the regular season:

    Last 11 GS  4.97 ERA/1.453 WHIP

    Last 4 Gms  9.77 ERA/ 1.979 WHIP

    I'm not sure if he had a stamina issue or just a mini slump. I know one game at the end was in relief, so maybe it's not fair to hold that against him.

    You are right, I'm sure several GMs are asking about Felix, but I'm pretty certain we hold onto him and deal Dempster instead. (I'm assuming Ben is happy with Doubront's conditioning, attitude and other intangibles.)

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    From MLBTR...

    Quick Hits: Boras, Drew, Red Sox, Orioles By  Mark Polishuk [January 6 at 11:21pm CST]

    In an interview with Peter Gammons, Scott Boras expressed his confidence that Stephen Drew and Kendrys Morales will find good contracts with teams that will put more value on their contributions than the value of (possibly second- or third-round) draft picks.  With that said, Boras also believes the free agent system needs to be changed to give players more freedom and to encourage teams to spend.  “We should be doing everything possible to try to get smaller market teams the necessary veteran leadership to contend,” Boras said.  His suggestions include banning qualifying offers for players over 30 years old, and a monetary compensation system for teams who lose free agents under age-30 that the clubs can re-invest in signings or draft spending.

    Here's some more from around the baseball world...

     

    • An executive on a team that explored signing Stephen Drew told Andy Martino of the New York Daily News yesterday that Drew's medicals were raising some concerns.  Another source tells WEEI.com's Rob Bradford today (Twitter link) that Drew is "perfectly healthy.  No physical issues."
    • The Red Sox are looking to add outfield depth, Jason Mastrodonato of MassLive.comreports, and Scott Podsednik is one name on Boston's current long list of external candidates.  Ryan Gleichowski, Podsednik's agent, recently told Mastrodonato that Podsednik was in shape and eager to continue his career after sitting out the 2013 season.  We also recently heard that the Sox have some interest in Padres outfielderChris Denorfia.
    • The Red Sox will have an estimated $96MM coming off the books following the 2014 seasons, WEEI.com's Alex Speier writes, leaving the team with lots of flexibility to re-sign David Ortiz and/or Jon Lester, as well as explore new player acquisitions.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to jidgef's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think Doubront made believers out of most of Red Sox management last year, especially the way he responded to his "demotion" in the playoffs. I said at the start of last season that by mid-year he could be an ace or be back in Pawtucket. It looks like the maturity finally kicked in to go along with his outstanding stuff. At his controllable price and talent level I don't see him going anywhere except to the bump 30 times for us this year!

    [/QUOTE]


    Agree 100%. Just needs to mature a little more and realize conditioning is part of the off season routine. Corona's and salsa on the beach is not working out!

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    I have to admit, it really irked me bigtime when he came to ST out of shape his first year he had his big chance. Maybe I overreacted on making judgements about him, and maybe there was an underlying issue that might have made the situation more understandable. 

    My life experiences have showed me that not many grown people are able to change their habits and "who they are". Maybe Felix didn't really need to change who he was (is), and there was some perfectly good explanation for what happened. There was some talk of him coming to camp out of shape a second time, but I'm not sure that occured.

    It did appear that felix began to run out of steam last August. Again, I am not sure it was realted to his conditioning, stamina or something else, but he is now 26 years old coming off two 160 IP seasons. I'd say it is time he should be able to approach 190-200 IP, but that will probably only happen, if he can get a grip on his high WHIP and pitchcount/inning (99 pitches per start, but only 5.8 IP/GS).

    As I have said for years, Doubront has some nasty stuff. He has the skills to be a dominating pitcher. He has 4 years of team control left- 3 with arbs, so he could be a key at helping our rotation not drain such a high percentage of our player payroll budget.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    I'm for selling Doubront high. But only if the deal is right.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to RedsoxProspects' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm for selling Doubront high. But only if the deal is right.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm OK with trading anyone, if the value return is right.

    I'm wondering what type of offer might be out there for a guy like Doubront.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    All the things that would make Doubront attractive to another team in a deal are the same reasons that we should want to keep him. Power arm, swing and miss stuff, throws left-handed and young and improving. What's not to like?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to jidgef's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    All the things that would make Doubront attractive to another team in a deal are the same reasons that we should want to keep him. Power arm, swing and miss stuff, throws left-handed and young and improving. What's not to like?

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed, but what is the offer?

    Doubie's not the best pitcher in MLB or the best at his financial cost either.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to jidgef's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    All the things that would make Doubront attractive to another team in a deal are the same reasons that we should want to keep him. Power arm, swing and miss stuff, throws left-handed and young and improving. What's not to like?

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't worry - just be glad he's safely in the hands of Cherington and not some of the trigger-happy wheeler-dealers you find on the forum.  Wink 

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    I don't think anyone here was behind Doubront more than me last year but he just had a solid year and young, controllable pitching is in tremendous demand. And he did fade in the end of the year except for a short comeback in the playoffs. He does appear to have conditioning issues and this has been a recurring issue. And he should be past those by now. I've been following him since he had about a 1.71 ERA as a 17 year old in the Venezuelan league. I don't take trading him lightly and I would consider him excellent value.

    For example, as badly as I wanted us to man 1st base with Billy Butler instead of spending the money to sign Napoli, i wouldn't have traded 3 years of low cost control over Doubront for 2 years of control of a hitter like Billy Butler. But I would trade absolutely anyone in the right deal. 

    We are far more likely to trade Dempster or Peavy but to get someone we want badly we might have to trade Doubront. We have lots of young starter arms in AAA ball. Now is probably a good time to consider trading any of our secondary starters, like Dempster and Doubront or Dempster and Peavy. If the deal is right. We have Workman, Ranaudo, Delarosa, Webster, Barnes, Wright, Britton...etc. and we may well sign a FA pitcher ourselves.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: A Realistic View at 2014: Part I

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I have to admit, it really irked me bigtime when he came to ST out of shape his first year he had his big chance. Maybe I overreacted on making judgements about him, and maybe there was an underlying issue that might have made the situation more understandable. 

    Don.'t assume working out or being out of shape is important to a pitcher, IMO the evidence is not there.

    "The list of overweight pitchers who have been successful include Babe Ruth, Early Wynn, Mickey Lolich, Rick Reuschel, David Wells and Bartolo Colon.

    Leo Mazzone, a former pitching coach for the Atlanta Braves who tutored all shapes and sizes in his 32-year career, said that if it was not broke, don’t diet.

    “He needs to gain 25 pounds back,” said Mazzone, who dispenses his pitching theories as a co-host on a daily sports radio show in Atlanta and on the Atlanta Braves’ radio network pregame show.

    “Somebody probably told him if he loses weight, he’ll have more longevity,” Mazzone said. “Well guess what? I’d rather have effectiveness.”

    Mazzone said that through the years, he found that pitchers had weight and fitness levels they were comfortable with. Dieting to reach ideal weights and working out to develop muscle tone do not necessarily help them pitch their best.

    “In anything in sports, you have to find a happy medium,” Mazzone said. “It’s based on common sense.”http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/17/sports/baseball/for-yankees-sabathia-it-appears-less-weight-is-less-success.html?_r=0

    Greg Maddux, the Braves’ four-time Cy Young Award winner, Mazzone added, “wasn’t muscle-bound, that’s for sure.”

    ...

    Dan Plesac, who pitched in the major leagues for 18 years, said that better conditioning did not always equal a better performance. At 6-5, he struggled to keep his weight at 220 pounds.

    “In 1993, I signed as a free agent with the Cubs, and they had a killer strength and conditioning program,” said Plesac, now an analyst for MLB Network. “I was in the best shape of my life. But it didn’t increase my velocity, and I didn’t have a very good year.”

    Plesac said better conditioning did help him extend his career and feel better.

    “But it won’t equate to having a 2.10 E.R.A. or a 4.00 E.R.A.,” said Plesac, who played with Wells in Toronto.

    “A large majority of people thought that if David Wells would have gotten himself in better shape, he would have had a better career than he had,” Plesac said. “I’m not as convinced that being in super-tiptop shape for a pitcher is the difference between being a great pitcher or a good pitcher.”



     

Share