Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

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    Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    Based on the excerpts being published from Francona's new book, I believe Red Sox fans should be concerned about the ongoing priorities this ownership has toward this baseball team.

    Some points that Francona were raised:

    • Ownership is more concerned about TV ratings and profits than winning games
    • Ownership forced the team to play a  double header in 2011 during hurricane Irene to get get Fenway gates, when field conditions called for postponement...I know I was at the 2nd game and although they swept both games, it marked the beginning of their slide and disappearance of their 9 game lead in September.
    • Did ownership force Francona to pitch Wakefield every 5th day to reach his 200 win milestone and place that acheivement above the team's need to keep winning?
    • Were the last two events part of the cause of the team losing it's focus and not caring...leading to chicken and beer in the clubhouse??
    • Ownership does not focus on baseball but on soccer, nascar and Lebron James

    Now Tito has been gone a couple of years and to me nothing has changed with ownership and the team focus...as a matter of fact did things get worse?? For example:

    • Lucchino bringing in Valentine to manage his misfits
    • Ownership placing more focus on Fenway Park's 100th anniversary than the baseball product on the field.

    So the questions I still have for 2013 and beyond is whether these type of non-baseball priorities by ownership will continue to impact decisions by the GM and manager that are not necessarily in the best interests of the baseball team?

    Your thoughts and opinions are welcome.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSox_Giants_Devils_Nicks. Show RedSox_Giants_Devils_Nicks's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    I dont mind that the owners dont care about wins as much and only about the profit margins and TV ratings because they are businessmen first and always want to make money. However what I do care about is them sticking their noses in the team if that is the case. Let the baseball people do the baseball things and the money and TV deals will fall into place.  

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    Tito and his loser players were paid nearly a billion dollars, but produced zero playoff wins. End of story and pitiful old manager's attempt to sell books and blame others.



    That was one difficult paragraph to read.

    Are you high?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    In response to RedSox_Giants_Devils_Nicks' comment:

    I dont mind that the owners dont care about wins as much and only about the profit margins and TV ratings because they are businessmen first and always want to make money. However what I do care about is them sticking their noses in the team if that is the case. Let the baseball people do the baseball things and the money and TV deals will fall into place.  



    I agree.

    It's their job to worry about the bottom line.

    But, they also need to get out of the way and let the baseball ops folks do theirs.

    Hopefully, they've learned their lesson.

    If not, I have no doubt that Farrel with tell them where to stick their market analyses.

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

     

    That was one difficult paragraph to read.

     

    Are you high?

    No, but it's quite clear that you are.

     




    The ol' "I know you are, but what am I"...

     

    Can't you at least make an effort to be coherent?

    BTW, I think there are still two threads where you haven't posted  the same weak statement.

    Get moving!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    "In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    That was one difficult paragraph to read.

     

    Are you high?

    No, but it's quite clear that you are.



    "I know you are but what am I" is always a fabulous retort.

    Francona is trying to sell books.  I don't really care what he has to say about anything at this point.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    The owners might have only been concerned with profits,  but at least they did not run the team like Jeffrey Loria...

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:

    Tito and his loser players were paid nearly a billion dollars, but produced zero playoff wins. End of story and pitiful old manager's attempt to sell books and blame others.




    Are you going to get your book autographed??

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    In response to notin's comment:

    The owners might have only been concerned with profits,  but at least they did not run the team like Jeffrey Loria...




    For all of their faults, the Sox brass still look pretty good, next to that weasel.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

      Red Sox Report Red Sox: Terry Francona Theo disputes assertions in book January, 17, 2013 Jan 17 12:04 AM ET By Gordon Edes | ESPNBoston.com Theo Epstein, who was Red Sox general manager for nine seasons before departing to become president of baseball operations for the Chicago Cubs in the aftermath of Boston’s September 2011 collapse, on Wednesday addressed criticism of Red Sox ownership in a new book co-authored by former Sox manager Terry Francona.

    In an excerpt from the book "Francona: The Red Sox Years" that appears in this week’s Sports Illustrated, co-authors Francona and Boston Globe columnist Dan Shaughnessy asserted that ownership was obsessed with declining TV ratings and followed the recommendations of market research consultants urging the team to add more stars and “sex symbols."

    Epstein attended that meeting with consultants in November 2010, and was quoted in the book as being highly critical.

    "They told us we didn't have any marketable players, that we needed some sizzle," he is quoted in the excerpt as saying. "We need some sexy guys. Talk about the tail wagging the dog. This is like an absurdist comedy. We'd become too big. It was the farthest thing removed from what we set out to be."

    Epstein said that quote should not be construed as a criticism of the Sox owners, as many have done.

    “My quote about how 'they told us... we needed sizzle' was in response to a question about the meeting to discuss the consultants' study on NESN ratings," Epstein said. “It was specifically about the consultants' meeting; it was not about ownership."

    Epstein took exception to the assertion made in the book that after that meeting, he was responding "to the pressure from his bosses and the sagging ratings" when he traded for Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford, signing the pair for a combined total of 14 years and $296 million.

    “There is no direct link between that meeting and the Red Sox moves that winter," he said Wednesday. “I take full responsibility for those moves. It was my job to handle the pressure of a big market and make good decisions."

    Francona had described an earlier meeting during the 2010 season with owners John W. Henry, Tom Werner and Larry Lucchino in which he nearly walked out of the room when Werner said the team needed to "start winning in more exciting fashion." The only thing that kept him from leaving, he wrote, was Epstein grabbing him by the knee.

    Epstein said Wednesday that Werner’s comment was made in jest.

    "Tom's line about needing to 'start winning in more exciting fashion' was delivered as a joke -- what to do if ratings are down even though the team is having a winning season," Epstein wrote in an e-mail.

    Francona, who wrote that to this day he doesn’t know how to respond when people ask him whether he was fired or quit after the 2011 season, also questioned the owners’ passion for the game.

    "Our owners in Boston, they've been owners for 10 years," Francona is quoted as saying in the book. "They come in with all these ideas about baseball, but I don't think they love baseball. I think they like baseball. It's revenue, and I know that's their right and their interest because they're owners -- and they're good owners. But they don't love the game. It's still more of a toy or a hobby for them. It's not their blood. They're going to come in and out of baseball. It's different for me. Baseball is my life."

    Epstein disputed that characterization.

    "I spent a decade in the organization," he wrote. "In my opinion, John, Tom and Larry do love baseball and care deeply about the Red Sox and Red Sox fans."

    Epstein, who has just completed his first year as president of the Cubs, a season in which the team lost 101 games, said he was focused on the Cubs’ fan convention this week and reluctant to be drawn into a discussion of the book. But on Wednesday, he felt obligated to respond.

    "I got a chance to work with one of the best managers and one of the best ownership groups in baseball, and we all had a lot of success together. We have fond memories of that time -- including supporting one another through the difficult stretches -- but now we are all consumed with new challenges as we should be."

    Francona, in an interview with ESPN Boston’s Joe McDonald, said the excerpt in SI made the characterization of ownership harsher than he intended.

    "The last chapter is hard because it was a hard ending," Francona said. "I’m sure there will be a thing or two that will [tick] somebody off that I didn’t think would, but I’ve read it seven times and me and Dan made change after change because I wanted it to be good, I wanted it to be interesting and I also wanted it to preserve the clubhouse because I do believe in that so much."
     
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    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    "Tito and his loser players were paid nearly a billion dollars, but produced zero playoff wins. "

    I remember some playoff wins. 

    Wipe the crust out please. 

    http://youtu.be/GoDkZuBKJWY 

    That should refresh your memory. You could stand to show a bit more respect. 

    You also seem a wee bit confused. Managers don't sign players. For such an outspoken guy you are pretty gutless about criticizing Lucchino who was the key force behind those signings you can't stand. 

    As for this post, there's no surprise here, Theo himself already alluded to this idea of "feeding the monster" and it's clear the horrible AGon and Crawford signings in particular were ratings driven, or that on the field plans took back seat to some of those broader marketing concerns.

    On the other hand I think the ownership group learned from that and now your concern is out of date. The bigger concern is whether they are considering selling and whether they will fork over money for a legit player like an ace pitcher. However we may have to wait a while as I doubt this offseason will surface that kind of talent. But the unwillingness to shell out for someone worth shelling out for is now a concern. As well as the farm system they are clearly counting on.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    "In response to Softlaw1's comment:

     

    That was one difficult paragraph to read.

     

    Are you high?

    No, but it's quite clear that you are.

     



    "I know you are but what am I" is always a fabulous retort.

     

    Francona is trying to sell books.  I don't really care what he has to say about anything at this point.



    Are you saying that Francona is mostly concerned about profit now too?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    It seems like most posters rather attack Softlaw for his opinions rather than respond to the topic itself...even though Softy doesn't exactly always stay on topic himself.

    In any event, I agree with those who have stated that the Sox ownership should worry about profits and I don't have a problem with that...until it impacts the abilities of the product on the field. All of the things I mentioned pertain specfically to ownership trying to make decisions to enhance profitability at the expense of the Red Sox team.

    I wouldn't have a problem also to see Lucchino get his fingers out of the baseball operations unless it is to approve a trade that requires acquisition of additional contract monies. Needless to say, that goes for Werner and Henry as well.

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    "In response to Softlaw1's comment:

     

    That was one difficult paragraph to read.

     

    Are you high?

    No, but it's quite clear that you are.

     



    "I know you are but what am I" is always a fabulous retort.

     

    Francona is trying to sell books.  I don't really care what he has to say about anything at this point.



    Im with Snake on this one.... Francona is as boring as them come so of course he has to say  all these things to get someone remotely interested in his book.... if this is the worst of it, I cant image many will buy this.....and btw what ever happen to keeping things that happen in the organization under wraps?? Wasnt that Tito montra?? So now that he feels scorned all values are out the door?  halarious ....  what people will do for money....

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

     

    Based on the excerpts being published from Francona's new book, I believe Red Sox fans should be concerned about the ongoing priorities this ownership has toward this baseball team.

    Some points that Francona were raised:

    • Ownership is more concerned about TV ratings and profits than winning games
    • Ownership forced the team to play a  double header in 2011 during hurricane Irene to get get Fenway gates, when field conditions called for postponement...I know I was at the 2nd game and although they swept both games, it marked the beginning of their slide and disappearance of their 9 game lead in September.
    • Did ownership force Francona to pitch Wakefield every 5th day to reach his 200 win milestone and place that acheivement above the team's need to keep winning?
    • Were the last two events part of the cause of the team losing it's focus and not caring...leading to chicken and beer in the clubhouse??
    • Ownership does not focus on baseball but on soccer, nascar and Lebron James

    Now Tito has been gone a couple of years and to me nothing has changed with ownership and the team focus...as a matter of fact did things get worse?? For example:

    • Lucchino bringing in Valentine to manage his misfits
    • Ownership placing more focus on Fenway Park's 100th anniversary than the baseball product on the field.

    So the questions I still have for 2013 and beyond is whether these type of non-baseball priorities by ownership will continue to impact decisions by the GM and manager that are not necessarily in the best interests of the baseball team?

    Your thoughts and opinions are welcome.

     

     



    Unless you have an owner like Mark Cuban who loves the game and his players thats pretty much how most ownerships are.  A business first and everything else second but it does concern me that Francona is turning into another Schil.  It's great to have your opinion but Francona was also given the opportunity of his life in Boston with a lot of great talent "so at the very least" respect that enough not to go off on ownership.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    Oh dear, our owners are such nasty old mercenaries...this isn't just about winning baseball games and losing money to them...I am so disillusioned.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Alarming information from Francona that should concern Red Sox fans

    My Francona book is coming from Amazon.

    I can't wait to read it.  It'll be like an episode of 'Housewives of Beverly Hills'!

     

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