And Francona removed Lester, why??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    And Francona removed Lester, why??

    (93 pitches, 11 Ks, 1 walk, 5 straight shutout innings, strikes out the side in the 7th and has just a 2 run lead.)
    Why was a known quantity replaced with an unknown? Is a fresh Bard better than a Lester who has thrown 93 pitches and struck out the side in the previous inning?
    Imagine it was the top of the 9th with a 2 run lead and Lester was removed and Paps was inserted. Bingo, tie game.
    I know, I know they won the game, so what's the big deal?
    Once again Francona fixed something that wasn't broken, and it's just another win "In Spite of Francona".
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    What are you talking about?  It wasn't the top of the 9th.  This post makes no sense.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from VtRedSoxFan802. Show VtRedSoxFan802's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    Curt Spring, the pitching coach, talked about pitch count for each pitcher in a recent interview. He adds up all the count for the week and it has to be under something like 230 or 330, cannot remember which it was for each pitcher so I would guess that Lester had pitched his quota including last night's game.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    He did it so you'd have something to complain about today.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    Is it really that difficult to comprehend the fact that you don't burn out the best pitcher on your staff?  The Sox don't like to have their starters throw more than 330 pitches over any 3 start stretch.  Lest was pulled at 312 pitches.  Could he have stayed in for the 8th?  Sure, but would he have been able to finish the inning?  Maybe, so why risk it when you're 8th and 9th inning guys are fresh?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE]Curt Spring, the pitching coach, talked about pitch count for each pitcher in a recent interview. He adds up all the count for the week and it has to be under something like 230 or 330, cannot remember which it was for each pitcher so I would guess that Lester had pitched his quota including last night's game.
    Posted by VtRedSoxFan802[/QUOTE]

    The team looks at their pitchers in 3 game blocks.  The total pitch count they want to stick to is 330 over 3 starts as a rule. Lester pitched 7 innings and was very close to that benchmark that was set.  Bard was fresh so they went to him.  This is more of 1941 inventing something that is not there.  it really is getting lame.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE](93 pitches, 11 Ks, 1 walk, 5 straight shutout innings, strikes out the side in the 7th and has just a 2 run lead.) Why was a known quantity replaced with an unknown? Is a fresh Bard better than a Lester who has thrown 93 pitches and struck out the side in the previous inning? Imagine it was the top of the 9th with a 2 run lead and Lester was removed and Paps was inserted. Bingo, tie game. I know, I know they won the game, so what's the big deal? Once again Francona fixed something that wasn't broken, and it's just another win "In Spite of Francona".
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    This is a joke right?  I mean no one could actually be this stupid.

     "What if it was the 9th and it was a 2 run lead......"   Better yet, what if Papelbon then broke his leg running in from the Bullpen, so they went to Jenks forgetting his fingers had been severed in a freak salad making accident the night before, then the bullpen phone goes out because the owner of the phone company had money against the Red Sox, thus forcing Francona to use a bench player, Mike Cameron lets say, to come in and close out this hypothetical 2 run 9th inning lead that never actually existed.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    I'm with you Bosox.  I can think of nothing more stupider than protecting your ace's arm by taking him out after 7 strong and relying on your best bullpen arms to finish the game.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from byebyeepstein. Show byebyeepstein's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    look, bosox1941, i agree with you. cona is a lousy field manager.
    if it makes you feel better to question his moves, go right ahead.
    maybe others on this kool-aide board will start realizing that cona's only strong suits are trying to make his players happy and talking to the press.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    Boy this is the opposite of my favorite argument which is why pitch your starter to the point of failure when you have your bullpen set-up and can give the reliever a clean frame to work with.

    Others have brought out the logic of managing pitch count, particularly in May when you expect to get 220 IP from Lester and hope to go deep into the post season.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    He struck out the side in the 7th ! Could he have pitched the 8th? I don't know and no one else will ever know, because Francona has confidence in his BP. A 2 run lead has been very precarious quite often this year.
    It's simple, He fixed something that wasn't broken. 
     
    Snakeoil, I said IMAGINE it was the ninth, I didn't say it was the ninth. If it was the 9th, 2 run lead and Paps is brought in to close, and bingo, it's a tie game.
    Classic "Win In Spite of Francona".
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Syd. Show Syd's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    The season just started. Let the bullpen get some work in and save the wear and tear on John Lester. You can second guess Tito all you want, but he knows what's best for the team. I would rather have him pull a pitcher than leave him in too long. That one or two additional innings a game will add up as the season progress. By the end of the season, we will wind up with a pitcher with a dead arm or taking a trip to Dr. Andrews to go under the knife.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from maddog2020. Show maddog2020's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    Bard is unknown - isn't he the guy everybody wants to replace papelbon with or are you talking about Josh Bard.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE]The season just started. Let the bullpen get some work in and save the wear and tear on John Lester. You can second guess Tito all you want, but he knows what's best for the team. I would rather have him pull a pitcher than leave him in too long. That one or two additional innings a game will add up as the season progress. By the end of the season, we will wind up with a pitcher with a dead arm or taking a trip to Dr. Andrews to go under the knife.
    Posted by Syd[/QUOTE]
    I agree with you, except it was only 3-1 when he was removed and he struck out the side in the 7th.  No one knows how any reliever will pitch untill he's brought in. Everyone knew how Lester was pitching. So I guess he takes a chance and brings in Bard, and it worked. There was no reason to remove Lester, period. He was overpowering.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE]He struck out the side in the 7th ! Could he have pitched the 8th? I don't know and no one else will ever know, because Francona has confidence in his BP. A 2 run lead has been very precarious quite often this year. It's simple, He fixed something that wasn't broken.    Snakeoil, I said IMAGINE it was the ninth, I didn't say it was the ninth. If it was the 9th, 2 run lead and Paps is brought in to close, and bingo, it's a tie game. Classic "Win In Spite of Francona".
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    The flip side is, with Bard and Paps, the whole operation is supposed to work the way Francona played it last night:  starter goes 7, and then Bard to papelbon is one of the strongest hold/save combos in the game.  And, just because Bard has been shaky here and there, doesn't mean that you banadon the big plan.  Thats panic.  You have to give these guys the opportunity to fail/succeed.  But panic all you want.  That is why I am so glad you are just a Tito hater and tito is the actual manager.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE]He struck out the side in the 7th ! Could he have pitched the 8th? I don't know and no one else will ever know, because Francona has confidence in his BP. A 2 run lead has been very precarious quite often this year. It's simple, He fixed something that wasn't broken.    Snakeoil, I said IMAGINE it was the ninth, I didn't say it was the ninth. If it was the 9th, 2 run lead and Paps is brought in to close, and bingo, it's a tie game. Classic "Win In Spite of Francona".
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]First of all I happen to disagree with having brought Papelbon into the game with the score being 9-1. Closers are adrenaline guys and bringing them just to get some work often ends with an uneven performance like last night's. I tend to think that Papelbon would  have been sharper with the game on the line. My speculation in that regard is more valid than speculating what never happened in reality...

    But much fresher Lester had given up a moon shot to Trumbo. You assume that Lester hitting the pitch count threshold was going to continue to throw bullets to the top of the Angels order with no damage, then propose what if Bard hadn't had a clean frame and finish with assuming Papelbon's outing would have been the same with a smaller lead.

    I will give you this, it isn't everybody who can follow-up the thrill of victory with the agony of reading an OP about it.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why?? : I agree with you, except it was only 3-1 when he was removed and he struck out the side in the 7th.  No one knows how any reliever will pitch untill he's brought in. Everyone knew how Lester was pitching. So I guess he takes a chance and brings in Bard, and it worked. There was no reason to remove Lester, period. He was overpowering.
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    Hey Dumbo, as it is, he's on pace to pitch 215 innings. Why overuse the guy now when they may need him in June/July/August/September.
    BOSOX1941 = BOZO
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxmeister. Show soxmeister's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    I agree, no reason to toss lester out there again, the game was well at hand, and the bullpen NEEDS WORK.  The two runs Paps gave up kinda prove that.

    Winning it all next Fall is more important than another inning pitched, it is not like it was a close game or a no-hitter.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    Maddog, Which Bard was it that, on the 27th, pitched one inning and gave up the winning run? Or was  it the Bard that on 4/1 pitched 2/3 of an inning and gave up 4 hits, 1 walk and 4 runs?? Is it the Bard that has 3 losses this year? Let's see, in order for a reliever to get a loss, he would have to come into a tie game or a game the Sox were leading and give up the winning runs.  The Sox were leading by 2 runs and Lester was overpowering, yet Bard was the better option last night. Is that what you're saying?
    Pitching coach says that the starters are on a 330 pitch regimen for the last 3 games. Lester was at 311. I wonder if he could have pitched the 8th on 19 pitches.. He average just over 13 pitches an inning last night...Nothing was broken and Francona decided to fix something.
    Although it didn't work out for the Angels, rest assured they were glad to see Lester gone.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE]I agree, no reason to toss lester out there again, the game was well at hand, and the bullpen NEEDS WORK.  The two runs Paps gave up kinda prove that. Winning it all next Fall is more important than another inning pitched, it is not like it was a close game or a no-hitter.
    Posted by soxmeister[/QUOTE]

    2 run lead at Fenway is a game well in hand?  LMAO, the bullpen needs work. How about the Team needs wins??
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from byebyeepstein. Show byebyeepstein's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    after seeing the responses to 1941's post, i'm strengthening my belief that YANKEE fans may not be the dumbest fans in baseball.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE]after seeing the responses to 1941's post, i'm strengthening my belief that YANKEE fans may not be the dumbest fans in baseball.
    Posted by byebyeepstein[/QUOTE]

    Oh, I can't wait for you to expound.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: And Francona removed Lester, why?? : Oh, I can't wait for you to expound.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    It might be a while.He has to look up expound to see what it means.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    You gotta love bosox1941 to sticking to his principles.  To him Francona is wrong even when he is right.  Lester is as close to a franchise player for theSox as there can be in MLB (which doesn't have franchise players).  He went 7 innings, and the Sox were up by 2.  Then Bard went one inning, and the Sox went up by 6.  Everything was under control, but that still wasn't good enough for bosox1941. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ConcernTroll. Show ConcernTroll's posts

    Re: And Francona removed Lester, why??

    In Response to And Francona removed Lester, why??:
    [QUOTE](93 pitches, 11 Ks, 1 walk, 5 straight shutout innings, strikes out the side in the 7th and has just a 2 run lead.) Why was a known quantity replaced with an unknown? Is a fresh Bard better than a Lester who has thrown 93 pitches and struck out the side in the previous inning? Imagine it was the top of the 9th with a 2 run lead and Lester was removed and Paps was inserted. Bingo, tie game. I know, I know they won the game, so what's the big deal? Once again Francona fixed something that wasn't broken, and it's just another win "In Spite of Francona".
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    www.sodahead.com/entertainment/enrique-iglesias-disses-britney-spears-whats-the-biggest-celebrity-insult-ever/question-1631269/">
     

Share