Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty excited about the 2012 Red Sox. So far this spring they've looked to me like a team with something to prove, and that includes the manager. Ells was an MVP candidate last year and people are saying it was a fluke. Lester and Beckett were 2 of the best pitchers in the AL for much of the year and all people want to talk about re them is fried chicken and brewskis. Carl Crawford is coming off the worst year of his career and even Gonzo has people wondering about his power. Big Papi has half of New England waiting for him to fade. Not to mention TB's new DH dissing the Sox and their fans in the national media.  All in all I think the Red Sox come out of the gate this year with a chip on their shoulders.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    I'm with ya carnie all the way. so far I love everything going on down at beautiful brand new fenway south. our starters are working out the kinks and throwing pretty darn good for only two weeks into spring trainning. I'm psyched about Iggy and cody ross. our new closer is looking very promising. papi is smashing the ball. I could go on and on. simply put carnie, so far it's all good man. all good.

    I heard that babe was trying to teach his parrot to say "boston suks, boston suks"   lol.....
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBINFL. Show TBINFL's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    Exactly what were they supposed to be last year?
     
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    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?:
    [QUOTE]I agree with you Carnie. But also I think that Bard is not a number 4 starter. With his stuff, we have 4 top of the rotation pitchers.
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]
    Add Aceves, and they just may have five top of the rotation guys.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harv53. Show harv53's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?:
    [QUOTE]I'm with ya carnie all the way. so far I love everything going on down at beautiful brand new fenway south. our starters are working out the kinks and throwing pretty darn good for only two weeks into spring trainning. I'm psyched about Iggy and cody ross. our new closer is looking very promising. papi is smashing the ball. I could go on and on. simply put carnie, so far it's all good man. all good. I heard that babe was trying to teach his parrot to say "boston suks, boston suks"   lol.....
    Posted by Hammah29r2[/QUOTE]

    Iglesias is 3 for 10 so far this spring with only 1 K. Oh wait, that's right, he can't hit ML pitching!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBINFL. Show TBINFL's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?:
    [QUOTE]I'm with ya carnie all the way. so far I love everything going on down at beautiful brand new fenway south. our starters are working out the kinks and throwing pretty darn good for only two weeks into spring trainning. I'm psyched about Iggy and cody ross. our new closer is looking very promising. papi is smashing the ball. I could go on and on. simply put carnie, so far it's all good man. all good. I heard that babe was trying to teach his parrot to say "boston suks, boston suks"   lol.....
    Posted by Hammah29r2[/QUOTE]

    She learned that long ago........ Tongue Out

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In response to "Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": [QUOTE]I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty excited about the 2012 Red Sox. So far this spring they've looked to me like a team with something to prove, and that includes the manager. Ells was an MVP candidate last year and people are saying it was a fluke. Lester and Beckett were 2 of the best pitchers in the AL for much of the year and all people want to talk about re them is fried chicken and brewskis. Carl Crawford is coming off the worst year of his career and even Gonzo has people wondering about his power. Big Papi has half of New England waiting for him to fade. Not to mention TB's new DH dissing the Sox and their fans in the national media.  All in all I think the Red Sox come out of the gate this year with a chip on their shoulders. Posted by carnie[/QUOTE] Agreed, if this teams remains relatively healthy, it could definitely be the team that everyone was banking on last year....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    hard to say, guess it depends on what they were supposed to be..if it is a very good team more than capable of contending then yes..if it is the hyped to the sky(by media), masters of the universe, best team ever, 106 wins then probably not....that said, i think they'll be what i think they are every year...as good as anyone when they play well...
     
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    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?:
    [QUOTE]hard to say, guess it depends on what they were supposed to be..if it is a very good team more than capable of contending then yes..if it is the hyped to the sky(by media), masters of the universe, best team ever, 106 wins then probably not....that said, i think they'll be what i think they are every year...as good as anyone when they play well...
    Posted by jete02fan[/QUOTE]Agreed. Sox like the Yankees and Texas are capable of scoring a ton of runs and if healthy can pitch well. Unlike other years you now have to include the Tigers in these discussions and to a lesser degree the Angels. Tampa even though they are offense straved can pitch with anyone. Looking forward to an exciting season.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    Of course the Sox are going to be good to great and contend for the division title. And if you get inbto the playoffs, anything can happen.

    Are they what they were supposed to be last year - no, but then, they were never going to be that to begin with.

    I hope you all are not putting too much faith in Bard being some superstar in your 4th slot. At best, he manages 120 - 140 IP. He will not be coming out and pitching at 98 mph for 8 innings per game. The only one I know who can do that is Verlander. of course, anything is possible, but past history with other phenom's (Joba) tells me that this move is more difficult than one would think.

    S.T. is a time for players to get their timing down, strength up and mind right. Spring stats tell me very little as to what a player will do. All I look for is progression with pitchers control and increased velocity (power pitchers) as we move into the last week of March.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mfymfy. Show mfymfy's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    Add Aceves, and they just may have five top of the rotation guys. ---dgalehouse
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bard 's thrown his first few ST innings as a starter and the last time Aceves tried starting, he ended up in traction. Love the unbridled optimism, but this sure sounds familiar.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    I hope so. But it's probably better to refrain from making predictions.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In response to "Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": [QUOTE]Of course the Sox are going to be good to great and contend for the division title. And if you get inbto the playoffs, anything can happen. Are they what they were supposed to be last year - no, but then, they were never going to be that to begin with. I hope you all are not putting too much faith in Bard being some superstar in your 4th slot. At best, he manages 120 - 140 IP. He will not be coming out and pitching at 98 mph for 8 innings per game. The only one I know who can do that is Verlander. of course, anything is possible, but past history with other phenom's (Joba) tells me that this move is more difficult than one would think. S.T. is a time for players to get their timing down, strength up and mind right. Spring stats tell me very little as to what a player will do. All I look for is progression with pitchers control and increased velocity (power pitchers) as we move into the last week of March. Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE] Jessey, "at best 120-140" innings? I think "at best" would be 180 innings. There are plenty of guys who have made that kind of innings jump. No one "expects" him to be a superstar right away, but there are guys who have had immediate success. Derek Lowe won 21 games his first year in the rotation. I think Joba is a poor example simply because of his delivery and he wasn't exactly the hardest working guy on the team back then. He's also not very bright and he was enjoying the NYC night life as much as his look-a-like, Babe Ruth. Joba seems to have matured, so maybe he's a little different once he's healthy...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": Jessey, "at best 120-140" innings? I think "at best" would be 180 innings. There are plenty of guys who have made that kind of innings jump. No one "expects" him to be a superstar right away, but there are guys who have had immediate success. Derek Lowe won 21 games his first year in the rotation. I think Joba is a poor example simply because of his delivery and he wasn't exactly the hardest working guy on the team back then. He's also not very bright and he was enjoying the NYC night life as much as his look-a-like, Babe Ruth. Joba seems to have matured, so maybe he's a little different once he's healthy...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    I think 180 innings is a huge leap. He has been up with the big team for 2 1/2 years now throwing 49, 74, 73 innings and only in relief appearances. My questions would be what was his biggest innings total in the minors and how long ago was that. Stretching out young arms, especially a power pitcher like Bard is different than most other pitchers.

    Maybe Bard is the next Verlander and he can go straight to 180 + innings, but with Verlander, he went from starting pitcher in the minors to staring pitcher in the majors. There was never a break in routine or regimine. That is not the case here.  And Lowe was in his 8th season and 29 years old. There is a big difference, plus the expectations on Lowe are nowhere near Bard's. Lowe came out of nowhere with that year. And Lowe's years in the bullpen were not as a one inning pitcher. Bard has averaged a fraction over one inning per game in the last two years. Bard is 3 years younger and a lot less seasoned than Lowe was when he was put into the rotation. As for expectations, you should read some of the comments so far by some in RSN. A few are placing unreasonable expectations on him.
     
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    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In response to "Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year? : I think 180 innings is a huge leap. He has been up with the big team for 2 1/2 years now throwing 49, 74, 73 innings and only in relief appearances. My questions would be what was his biggest innings total in the minors and how long ago was that. Stretching out young arms, especially a power pitcher like Bard is different than most other pitchers. Maybe Bard is the next Verlander and he can go straight to 180 + innings, but with Verlander, he went from starting pitcher in the minors to staring pitcher in the majors. There was never a break in routine or regimine. That is not the case here.  And Lowe was in his 8th season and 29 years old. There is a big difference, plus the expectations on Lowe are nowhere near Bard's. Lowe came out of nowhere with that year. And Lowe's years in the bullpen were not as a one inning pitcher. Bard has averaged a fraction over one inning per game in the last two years. Bard is 3 years younger and a lot less seasoned than Lowe was when he was put into the rotation. As for expectations, you should read some of the comments so far by some in RSN. A few are placing unreasonable expectations on him. Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE] Ahhh, "RSN," where Lavarnway is the next Bench, Middlebrooks is the next Schmidt, Iglesias is the next OZ, etc., etc...Yes, expectations can be high among us, but I don't think they are really ridiculous with Bard. Most seem to hope for 10-15 wins and 150 innings with anything else being gravy. There's a good interview with Bard on NESN where he discusses the innings thing. He said 70 innings for a reliever is like 200 for a starter, when you consider all the different factors. There are also different factors that a pitcher needs to make the adjustment. Repetition of delivery out of the wind-up, pitches he can throw for strikes consistently and mental makeup obviously. Bard seems to have these factors in his favor at this point. It IS unfair to compare him to D-Lowe, but I think it's just as unfair to compare him to Joba...
     
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    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": Ahhh, "RSN," where Lavarnway is the next Bench, Middlebrooks is the next Schmidt, Iglesias is the next OZ, etc., etc...Yes, expectations can be high among us, but I don't think they are really ridiculous with Bard. Most seem to hope for 10-15 wins and 150 innings with anything else being gravy. There's a good interview with Bard on NESN where he discusses the innings thing. He said 70 innings for a reliever is like 200 for a starter, when you consider all the different factors. There are also different factors that a pitcher needs to make the adjustment. Repetition of delivery out of the wind-up, pitches he can throw for strikes consistently and mental makeup obviously. Bard seems to have these factors in his favor at this point. It IS unfair to compare him to D-Lowe, but I think it's just as unfair to compare him to Joba...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    jasko - like everyone else, we have opinions, hopes and everything else thrown in. I am not comparing Bard to joba, but I am comparing the situation, that's all.

    If Bard can give the Sox 150 + innings, a .500 record with 10 + wins and an ERA of around 4.00, I think that is a perfect starting point for him as a starter and to move foward with his future. I think Bard is a very good pitcher with a big upside.
     
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    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": Ahhh, "RSN," where Lavarnway is the next Bench, Middlebrooks is the next Schmidt, Iglesias is the next OZ, etc., etc...Yes, expectations can be high among us, but I don't think they are really ridiculous with Bard. Most seem to hope for 10-15 wins and 150 innings with anything else being gravy. There's a good interview with Bard on NESN where he discusses the innings thing. He said 70 innings for a reliever is like 200 for a starter, when you consider all the different factors. There are also different factors that a pitcher needs to make the adjustment. Repetition of delivery out of the wind-up, pitches he can throw for strikes consistently and mental makeup obviously. Bard seems to have these factors in his favor at this point. It IS unfair to compare him to D-Lowe, but I think it's just as unfair to compare him to Joba...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]
    What they were supposed to be last year from most Red Sox fans, the best team in the MLB, win 105 + games, win the ALE, win the WS all going away with the greatest hitting and pitching. Some of my descripton of 2011 expectations may be a bit, and I mean a bit overstated, however the delusion Red Sox Nation had prior to last year was epic. So having said that, my answer to the question is no way, no how, period. IMO, if we get in the Playoffs and lose in the first matchup, we will have had a good season. If we finish in 2nd in the ALE, that will have been a good season. I expect a continuation of lots of injuries, the emergence of a "new" player e.g. Iggy, Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, that we will be competitive, but clearly not the best team in the MLB. We need to make small, solid steps towards being elite again.
     
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    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In response to "Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year? : jasko - like everyone else, we have opinions, hopes and everything else thrown in. I am not comparing Bard to joba, but I am comparing the situation, that's all. If Bard can give the Sox 150 + innings, a .500 record with 10 + wins and an ERA of around 4.00, I think that is a perfect starting point for him as a starter and to move foward with his future. I think Bard is a very good pitcher with a big upside. Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE] That works for me...I think you'll see the phantom injury midsummer to rest him for the stretch, but if he is somewhat successful as a starter, there is no way he is going back to the bullpen if and when Dice-k comes back, as many have suggested...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    i predicted 99 wins last yr so im just not going to make any predictions - im just going to enjoy

    Valentine's coaching style
    Iggy at ss'
    bard pitching
    no heartburn watching wake every fifth game
    ditto for lackey
    a slimmed down beckett
    ells turning into a superstar
    pedey continuing as a superstar
    lester becoming that unbeatable ace

    but its simply tougher this year in the east - TB & NY have improved

     
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    In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": That works for me...I think you'll see the phantom injury midsummer to rest him for the stretch, but if he is somewhat successful as a starter, there is no way he is going back to the bullpen if and when Dice-k comes back, as many have suggested...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    The good thing with Bard is that he is 26 and probably has a bit more maturity at this point then 2008 when Joba was in this position. Hopefully Joba has grown up as well.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBINFL. Show TBINFL's posts

    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": Ahhh, "RSN," where Lavarnway is the next Bench, Middlebrooks is the next Schmidt, Iglesias is the next OZ, etc., etc...Yes, expectations can be high among us, but I don't think they are really ridiculous with Bard. Most seem to hope for 10-15 wins and 150 innings with anything else being gravy. There's a good interview with Bard on NESN where he discusses the innings thing. He said 70 innings for a reliever is like 200 for a starter, when you consider all the different factors. There are also different factors that a pitcher needs to make the adjustment. Repetition of delivery out of the wind-up, pitches he can throw for strikes consistently and mental makeup obviously. Bard seems to have these factors in his favor at this point. It IS unfair to compare him to D-Lowe, but I think it's just as unfair to compare him to Joba...
    Posted by jasko2248[/QUOTE]

    Really? Then why hasn't he had any success as a starter as a pro?

     
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    Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?

    In response to "Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are the RS this year going to be what they were supposed to be last year? : Really? Then why hasn't he had any success as a starter as a pro? Posted by TBINFL[/QUOTE] "As a pro." Ahhh...you must be talking about all of those games he started in "A" ball as a 22 year old. Really? That's what your going to go with? Instead of giving you a list of Hall of Fame pitchers who struggled in the minors, I'm just going to say that I think that by adding a change-up he can throw for strikes to go along with a plus fastball, plus breaking ball, a little bit of confidence and a fluid delivery, I like his chances...
     

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