Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fishers5. Show fishers5's posts

    Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    Not an expert but looking back at the last few drafts, counting all the choices made and rather large money used to sign the players, ever wonder why there are so few signees that make it to the big league team..???   Seems like other organizations have much better successin advancing players,,
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    Since Dan D left, these are our top picks:

    2002: Jon lester (Mike Port)
    Theo begins...
    2003: David Murphy (4th rd: Papelbon)
    2004: Dustin Pedroia (our 1st pick, but in 2nd round)
      (6th rd C. Meredith)
    2005: Ellsbury, Craig Hansen, Clay Buchholtz, Jed Lowrie, M. Bowden 
    (all 1st round or supplemental)
    2006: Jason Price, D. Bard 2nd: Masterson, 9th Kalish
    2007: Nick Hagadone (trade with Masterson for Vmart) 5th: Middlebrooks
    2008: Casey Kelly (Traded for AGon), 5th Westmoreland, 6th Lavarnway
    2009: Reymond Fuentes, 2nd Alex Wilson
    2010: Vitek, Brentz & Ranaudo/2nd Workman, Coyle, 3rd Coyle,4th Cecchini
    2011: 4 first rounders/supp picks:
    barnes, Swihart, Owens, Brasdley Jr. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    We need Al Percolo to go down to Mexico and bring back Steve Nebraska!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    We should hire the Dodger's pitching scouts. Why is it they have always had great pitching over the last 60+ years?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    Since Dan D left, these are our top picks: 2002: Jon lester (Mike Port) Theo begins... 2003: David Murphy (4th rd: Papelbon) 2004: Dustin Pedroia (our 1st pick, but in 2nd round)   (6th rd C. Meredith) 2005: Ellsbury, Craig Hansen, Clay Buchholtz, Jed Lowrie, M. Bowden  (all 1st round or supplemental) 2006: Jason Price, D. Bard 2nd: Masterson, 9th Kalish 2007: Nick Hagadone (trade with Masterson for Vmart) 5th: Middlebrooks 2008: Casey Kelly (Traded for AGon), 5th Westmoreland, 6th Lavarnway 2009: Reymond Fuentes, 2nd Alex Wilson 2010: Vitek, Brentz & Ranaudo/2nd Workman, Coyle, 3rd Coyle,4th Cecchini 2011: 4 first rounders/supp picks: barnes, Swihart, Owens, Brasdley Jr. 
    Posted by moonslav59


    looks decent to me....but we dont like to pay them once they are here...the grass is always greener syndrome I guess
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    We should hire the Dodger's pitching scouts. Why is it they have always had great pitching over the last 60+ years?
    Posted by Alibiike


    I'm not sure how great their pitching was for all those years I wasn't alive for about 7 of them and unaware of baseball until at least 6 years old( unable to determine what a "good" pitcher was until about 10 years old), I know they had Koufax, Valenzuela , Drysdale, Welch,.... and they had a guy named Pedro that they gave up on....they also picked up a reject named Derek Lowe, who did alright for them.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? : I'm not sure how great their pitching was for all those years I wasn't alive for about 7 of them and unaware of baseball until at least 6 years old( unable to determine what a "good" pitcher was until about 10 years old), I know they had Koufax, Valenzuela , Drysdale, Welch,.... and they had a guy named Pedro that they gave up on....they also picked up a reject named Derek Lowe, who did alright for them.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD


    Don Sutton, Orel Hershiser, Mike Marshall, Ramon Martinez, Hideo Nomo, Don Newcombe, just to name a few more.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? : looks decent to me....but we dont like to pay them once they are here...the grass is always greener syndrome I guess
    Posted by georom4


    who didn't they pay?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? : Don Sutton, Orel Hershiser, Mike Marshall, Ramon Martinez, Hideo Nomo, Don Newcombe, just to name a few more.
    Posted by Alibiike


    Didn't draft Mike Marshall, they were about his 6th team.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? : who didn't they pay?
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    well paps, pedro, jbay, vmart, were sent packing after being very good players....but they had no problemo opening their purses for agon, lackey, CC, drew...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? : well paps, pedro, jbay, vmart, were sent packing after being very good players....but they had no problemo opening their purses for agon, lackey, CC, drew...
    Posted by georom4

     oh, i thought we were discussing homegrown Sox.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    Look at Cleveland. They dont even have the real players name in Fausto Carmona - his real name is  Roberto Hernandez Heredia - and he's 31, not 28...

    He was arrested in the Dominican Republic on false identity charges...
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? : well paps, pedro, jbay, vmart, were sent packing after being very good players....but they had no problemo opening their purses for agon, lackey, CC, drew...
    Posted by georom4


    Geo,

    In retrospect, don't you think cutting Pedro and Bay loose was correct?  Not to mention they got Buchholz for Pedro, and Brentz & Workman for Bay.  The Paps decision can't be evaluated for a few years....and the Vmart decision, sadly, looks better than ever from the Sox' perspective.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from cgmiles75. Show cgmiles75's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    There's been exactly one guy they didn't pay and clearly should have, and that's Damon. Everyone else they gave up on, it proved to be the right move.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    There's been exactly one guy they didn't pay and clearly should have, and that's Damon. Everyone else they gave up on, it proved to be the right move.
    Posted by cgmiles75

     And even Damon wasn't necessarily a misread.  Yes, he continued to produce through the duration of what would have been his Sox contract had they given him the extra year.  But, they didn't need a part-time DH, and that is what Damon became within 2 years of leaving.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Skadude22. Show Skadude22's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    Since Dan D left, these are our top picks: 2002: Jon lester (Mike Port) Theo begins... 2003: David Murphy (4th rd: Papelbon) 2004: Dustin Pedroia (our 1st pick, but in 2nd round)   (6th rd C. Meredith) 2005: Ellsbury, Craig Hansen, Clay Buchholtz, Jed Lowrie, M. Bowden  (all 1st round or supplemental) 2006: Jason Price, D. Bard 2nd: Masterson, 9th Kalish 2007: Nick Hagadone (trade with Masterson for Vmart) 5th: Middlebrooks 2008: Casey Kelly (Traded for AGon), 5th Westmoreland, 6th Lavarnway 2009: Reymond Fuentes, 2nd Alex Wilson 2010: Vitek, Brentz & Ranaudo/2nd Workman, Coyle, 3rd Coyle,4th Cecchini 2011: 4 first rounders/supp picks: barnes, Swihart, Owens, Brasdley Jr. 
    Posted by moonslav59


    Two more first round picks and a supplemental pick this year. And this list doesn't even take into consideration international scouting, which can be given credit for Bogaerts, Iglesias, Alcantara (traded) Doubront, Pimental, Tazawa, and Tejada. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from samclemens. Show samclemens's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    Since Dan D left, these are our top picks: 2002: Jon lester (Mike Port) Theo begins... 2003: David Murphy (4th rd: Papelbon) 2004: Dustin Pedroia (our 1st pick, but in 2nd round)   (6th rd C. Meredith) 2005: Ellsbury, Craig Hansen, Clay Buchholtz, Jed Lowrie, M. Bowden  (all 1st round or supplemental) 2006: Jason Price, D. Bard 2nd: Masterson, 9th Kalish 2007: Nick Hagadone (trade with Masterson for Vmart) 5th: Middlebrooks 2008: Casey Kelly (Traded for AGon), 5th Westmoreland, 6th Lavarnway 2009: Reymond Fuentes, 2nd Alex Wilson 2010: Vitek, Brentz & Ranaudo/2nd Workman, Coyle, 3rd Coyle,4th Cecchini 2011: 4 first rounders/supp picks: barnes, Swihart, Owens, Brasdley Jr. 
    Posted by moonslav59
      Recall that Epstein's first ever draft pick as Sox GM was an outfielder named Matt Murton who was taken in the 1st round of the 2003 draft and was ultimately part of the Garciaparra trade.  He had a cup of coffee with the Cubs and I assume he is no longer playing pro ball.    
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from samclemens. Show samclemens's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? : Two more first round picks and a supplemental pick this year. And this list doesn't even take into consideration international scouting, which can be given credit for Bogaerts, Iglesias, Alcantara (traded) Doubront, Pimental, Tazawa, and Tejada. 
    Posted by Skadude22
      Those names pale in comparison to players named Alfonso Soriano, Robinson Cano, Chien Ming Wang, Ivan Nova, Jose Tabata, Jesus Montero, Francisco Cervelli, Hector Noesi, Eduardo Nunez and Manny Banuelos among others including a catcher whose name escapes me, but who played for the Dodgers and Rays and made an all-star team.  An all-star setup guy last year named David Robertson was a 16th round pick.  Don't think the Sox scouting departments both internationally and domestically are one of the worst, but they are definitely not one of the best.  They are somewhere in the middle of the pack.   
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? :  And even Damon wasn't necessarily a misread.  Yes, he continued to produce through the duration of what would have been his Sox contract had they given him the extra year.  But, they didn't need a part-time DH, and that is what Damon became within 2 years of leaving.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus

    Plus, his numbers were a bit padded by moving from Fenway to Yankee stadium. 

    Damon could play DH, LF or CF with Boston from 2006, but most of those slotswere blocked anyways...

    2006: Yes, Damon hit better than Coco, but no way would he have come close to Coco on defense at this crucial defensive position. 
    LF: Manny DH: Ortiz

    2007: The Coco/Ellsbury combination helped us win a ring. Would it have mattered if Damon could have done better?

    2008: Coco/Jacoby combined for a pretty good year. IMO, better than Damon overall.

    2009: Jacoby had a solid year at a small fraction of the cost of Damon.

    I think the pros outnumbered the cons.
    If Theo was an expert at anything, it was deciding on who to let walk.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? :   Those names pale in comparison to players named Alfonso Soriano, Robinson Cano, Chien Ming Wang, Ivan Nova, Jose Tabata, Jesus Montero, Francisco Cervelli, Hector Noesi, Eduardo Nunez and Manny Banuelos among others including a catcher whose name escapes me, but who played for the Dodgers and Rays and made an all-star team.  An all-star setup guy last year named David Robertson was a 16th round pick.  Don't think the Sox scouting departments both internationally and domestically are one of the worst, but they are definitely not one of the best.  They are somewhere in the middle of the pack.   
    Posted by samclemens


    The NYY have better international scouts, but haven't drafted a US impact player since the mid-90s.  I think Mike Lowell was the last good player they got from the US draft.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    Not an expert but looking back at the last few drafts, counting all the choices made and rather large money used to sign the players, ever wonder why there are so few signees that make it to the big league team..???   Seems like other organizations have much better successin advancing players,,
    Posted by fishers5


    I don't think you need to be an expert to recognize the names Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Bard, and Masterson.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? : looks decent to me....but we dont like to pay them once they are here...the grass is always greener syndrome I guess
    Posted by georom4


    They extended Youkilis, Pedroia, Lester and Buchholz.  Paps always made it clear he was not going to extend, and Ellsbury has Boras and Boras always has his player hit the FA market.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? :  And even Damon wasn't necessarily a misread.  Yes, he continued to produce through the duration of what would have been his Sox contract had they given him the extra year.  But, they didn't need a part-time DH, and that is what Damon became within 2 years of leaving.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    SpaceAce - in the 4 years with the Yanks he DH'd in a total of 91 games. 4 seasons amounts to over 700 games so I would say the DH came more into play for him after he left NY.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? :   Those names pale in comparison to players named Alfonso Soriano, Robinson Cano, Chien Ming Wang, Ivan Nova, Jose Tabata, Jesus Montero, Francisco Cervelli, Hector Noesi, Eduardo Nunez and Manny Banuelos among others including a catcher whose name escapes me, but who played for the Dodgers and Rays and made an all-star team.  An all-star setup guy last year named David Robertson was a 16th round pick.  Don't think the Sox scouting departments both internationally and domestically are one of the worst, but they are definitely not one of the best.  They are somewhere in the middle of the pack.   
    Posted by samclemens

    Other than Cano, is there anybody on your list who you compares to Lester, Bard, Pedroia, Youk, Ellsbury or Buchholz?  Anybody from the Yankee farm system in the last decade you would put on par with any of those guys?


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???

    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball???:
    In Response to Re: Are the Sox scouting departments one of the worst in baseball??? :  oh, i thought we were discussing homegrown Sox.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    We are discussing players the Sox draft. Someone isn't paying attention. The guy with the Clemens face needs to wake up. 

    H-Pete
     

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