Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    I'm a fan of Ramon's, I like it katz.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bballfan99. Show bballfan99's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    IT IS TIME TO LET HIM GO... WE HAVE 2 CATECHERS 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    I like Varitek and thought he had a terrific season based on what I expected from him, but I think he's part of the change that may need to happen now. At any rate, doesn't matter what I think, I'm guessing he's one of the guys that will no longer be here. The old guard didn't do a good job policing their own locker room so as many of them as can be spared will be heading out.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    There is no cause and effect proof on catchers. Too many variables in time and space. 

    Early run support is a huge factor in starting pitching results, not reflected in abstract data above. 

    Varitek is washed up and is unable to perform over last month or two of a season, even as a backup. He is a liability in multiple facets. 

    But most importantly, Varitek as Captain is associated with the loser debacle of the last 3 years. Team should only offer him a minor league contract so he can be parked in AAA.

    Hernandez is the player to sign as FA, not old Varitek. Salty and Lavarnway should battle for other catcher spot. If it is close and Salty is out of options, start season with Salty until early summer and reavaluate where Salty and Lavarnway are. 

    Nice to see VMart doing well splitting season time behind one of the best young catchers in the AL. Terrible Epstein mistake, among many.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    My problem with many posters on this thread is they seem to be prisoners of the moment. Salty had a bad September, so now he's not the catcher of the future. Despite the bad finish and catching Wake, he finished near the top of the league in CS percentage. He's still a work in progress. I can accept the fact that he strikes out a lot but he does need to improve on that a bit. He had gotten is batting average up to around .250 briefly before slumping but still finished with 16 HRs and 56 RBIs. If you told fans at the beginning of the year tht he'd have those number, most would have taken them -- all but the most serious complainers.

    And Salty-Tek combined for 27 HRs, 92 RBIS, which has to rank near the top of the league. The only thing that hurt them was BA. But if you said our catchers would have those numbers, there would have been no complaints.

    As for Lavarnway, maybe he does have a bright future. But unless you watched him all year at Triple-A, you have no idea  how good or bad he is behind the plate. Two or three games that he played in September behind the plate tell ZILCH. As for the hitting, he raked at Triple-A. Let's see how it translates once there's a book.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    Tek is a joke. So is Wastefield.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    I certainly wouldn't put the blame on Tek because of Salty or VMART.
    In fact, many of us thought VMART had shown marked improvement in Boston. It's just that he was always lousy with pitchers prior to coming to Boston. He's not a great barometer for being a "veteran pupil".

    Salty is also a poor reference because we only have 2011 to draw a Tek/Salty comparison. Another year will expose any real differential.

    Teaching intangibles is tricky business. Much of it has to be put into practice over time. I don't want to give up on Salty. He has grown in many ways last year. And as Moon has said before, he is the same age Tek was when he became FT catcher in Boston. Problem is, time...and a limited window. And DC's progression on Salty is hard to argue with.

    Roy's take on Lavernway may be prophetic. He is very unproven and may not meet expectation early on, if ever.

    But Softone's statement "There's no cause and effect on catchers" is ridiculous.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1958lesspaul. Show 1958lesspaul's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    The Type A ranking for Varitek and the FA market for Varitek will show just how much of a joke he is. No team is looking for the player myth that resides in the minds of a few delusional posters on this site.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    Which is why VMART got soooooooo many offers to catch...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    fivekatz Ramon Hernandez was my catcher in Fantasy Ball this year until I traded for Miguel Montero in August, he actually hit the ball well in his limited role. I don't know much more about him than that, oh but I did read a number of posters on a Cincy site that were questioning why Ramon was not the full-time catcher. They must like what they see.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from walterjohnson07. Show walterjohnson07's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    Yes, I'm sure.  He cannot throw out anyone and would be worse in 2012 being a year older.  He can be an embarrassment at the plate.  And where was the Captain's leadership in the clubhouse?  He's part of the old guard whose time is past.  Keep him around in a coaching capacity, but not as manager because he has no such experience.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from athens7676. Show athens7676's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back? : Here are a couple of reasons to keep Salty and Lavarnway.  #1 Tek only had a 710 OPS against RHP with a 200 BA, while Salty had A 786 OBO, 247 BA against RHP.  Salty also throws out more runners and only had 2 more errors than Tek after playing 50 more games.  Salty gets the nod against RHP #2 We dont need anyone to hit lefties because Lavarnway hits better than Tek or Salty against them.  A small sample this season shows Ryan had a 295 BA and 980 OPS against lefties.  This was even evident in the minors which I don't expect to change.with Ryan.  Ryan also has a better arm than Tek or Salty.   Lavarnawy gets the nod against LHP, and throwing out runners over Salty and Tek . So for the team to improve it makes sense to use Lavarnway against lefties while Salty hits righties.  They are also the two with the best arms and age adavantage over Tek.  Even if Tek calls a good game in half the games he plays, he can't do what Salty and Ryan could do collectively to help our team in most crucial areas.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    You really can't say with any authority that Lavarnway gets the nod based on his small sample size. He has not been through the league even one time, so you have no idea what happens when scouting reports catch up with him. I'm not saying he won't be a good player...he could be awesome or..... he could be Kevin Maas...there is just no way to know yet. Now if you wanna make the argument that Lavarnway seems ready for the bogs and deserves the shot to see what kind of a player he is gonna be...that makes some sense to me. The only negative is that I have not heard a single good thing about his catching abilities that didn't come from a biased source (fan I mean)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?:
    [QUOTE]Here are the specific 2010 and 2011 numbers: Red denotes better numbers in sample sizes larger than 30 IP. Blue denotes better numbers in sample sizes with at least one pitcher between 13-29 IP.            (IP)    OPS    CERA Jon Lester: ‘11 V’Tek    (40)     .577    2.48  -1.29 Salty     (146) .717    3.77 Lava       (6)     .783    3.00 ‘10 VTek      (38)     .492    1.88   -1.76 VMart (136) .656    3.64 Cash      (27)    .649    3.38 Brown     (7)    .693    2.57   Josh Beckett: ‘11 V’Tek    (182)  .587    2.62   -4.84 Salty       (11)    .916    7.36 ‘10 V’Tek    (36)    .851    7.18 Vmart    (74)  .823    5.11  -2.07 Cash      (10) .947    6.97 Salty       (7) .936    3.86   John Lackey: ‘11 V’Tek    (33)     .769    6.82 Salty     (127) .874    6.31  -0.51 ‘10 V’Tek     (41)     .724    3.29  -1.52 VMart (123) .805    4.81 Salty       (22)    .646 2.86 Cash       (18)    .627    3.93 Molina    (12) .883    7.50   Clay Buchholtz: ‘11 V’Tek      (18)    .841     3.38  -0.14 Salty       (64)     .662     3.52 ‘10 V’Tek     (4)     .429    2.25 VMart (165) .603 2.13 Brown     (4) 1.041 11.25   Tim Wakefield: ’11 V’Tek     (13)  .634    4.15  -1.06 Salty     (142) .808    5.21 ‘10 V’Tek    (0)      n/a VMart (108)    .783    5.27  -0.66 Cash      (30)      .741    5.93   Daisuke Matsusaka: ‘11 V’Tek (35)    .545      3.82 Salty     (2)    1.768    31.50 ‘10 V’Tek (50)  .622    3.81   -2.09 VMart (69) .784 5.90 Cash      (23) .670 3.57 Salty      (7)    .703    5.40 Brown (6)    .584    1.50   Andrew Miller: ‘11 V’Tek    (30)    1.034    7.28 Salty    ( 35)     .681    4.08  -3.20   Erik Bedard: ‘11 V’Tek    (16)    .636    3.38  -0.48 Salty      (19)    .686    3.86   Kyle Weiland: ‘11 V’Tek (4)    1.323 13.50 Salty     (18)    .865    7.64 Lava        (3)    .200    0.00   Alfredo Aceves: ‘11 V’Tek    (42)    .580    2.34   -0.48 Salty      (67)    .642    2.82 Lava      (5)      .675    1.93   Daniel Bard: ‘11 V’Tek    (40)    .472    1.44   -3.10 Salty      (31)    .579    4.54 Lava        (2)    .889    9.00 ‘10 V’Tek    (19)    .304    0.48   -2.16 VMart    (44) .651    2.64 Cash       (7)     .247    0.00 Career: V’Tek    (80)    .523    1.79     -2.75 vs Salty/ -1.37 vs VMart Salty      (43)    .597    4.54 VMart    (51)    .669    3.16   Jonathan Papelbon ‘11 V’Tek    (26)    .536    2.45    -0.30 Salty      (36)     .516    2.75 Lava       (2)     .923 10.12 ‘10 V”Tek    (15)    .790    4.11 VMart    (40)    .629    4.02  -0.09 Cash       (9)     .572    1.00   Matt Albers: ‘11 V’Tek    (36)    .686    4.00   -1.53 Salty      (29)    .782    5.53 Lava       (1)     .900    9.00   Dan Wheeler: ‘11 V’Tek    (15)    .771    5.40 Salty      (34)    .662    4.19  -1.21   Franklin Morales: ‘11 V’Tek    (14)    .671    3.14    -1.10 Salty      (17)    .871    4.24   I think it is easy to see that VTek's influence is at least between 0.25 and 0.50 in ERA. The trend goes back way before 2010, as harness documented on his earlier thread. A case could be made that it is more like 0.75 to 1.25, but I won't go there. Although team CERA is not an accurate way to compare catchers, since each catcher has differing innings with differing pitchers, here is the final Sox numbers: VTek:  (575) .662  3.57 Salty  (856) .746  4.62 Lava  (27)   .760  4.39  
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

     Yes lets keep Tec.....As a bench coach......
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?




    VMart league leading .394 batting average with runners in scoring position, game set match.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    With Francona gone, the last semblance of the 2004 team will be gone also.     That includes Varitek, Wakefield, and Ortiz.

    That was then  -   now is now. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    I think the RS used to have a guy named Kelly Shoppach in their organization!
    Salty was, is, and will be a bust behind the plate. Legue leading PB's (and quit the excuse of catching Wake, Vmart had 4 PB's all year total). The RS would have been so much better off keeping Victor as catcher and not signing Crawford. Should have brought back Beltre and jettisoned Youk as well.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_4132508. Show user_4132508's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    Tek is my favorite player in baseball, and I would love to see him continue to catch. However, at some point we have to be realistic. The fact that, as captain, he wasn't even seen in the clubhouse during one of the final games of the season speaks volumes. I realize he was injured, but he, and several coaches, has maintained that his value is not his bat but his leadership, both in the clubhouse and behind the plate. If he doesn't show up, how can he provide leadership in clubhouse? I hate to see him finish his career with a month like the Red Sox had in September, but I'm not convinced that bringing him back is the best answer. Of course, if they do bring him back, I'll be excited :)
     
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    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?:
    [QUOTE]This is where I was very critical about Theo after the 08 Series with Tampa, Varitek went 1-20, and left numerous runners on in that series, at crucial times. They should have scoured the Draft, to start looking for a Catcher to take over. The guy was good, and he was important to this team, but time catches (sorry about that), up to everyone.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    Varitek should have been gone after the 2007 season, along with Mike Lowell and Wakefield. Theo Chicks howled when I said this.

    I was right.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    In Response to Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?:
    [QUOTE]fivekatz Ramon Hernandez was my catcher in Fantasy Ball this year until I traded for Miguel Montero in August, he actually hit the ball well in his limited role. I don't know much more about him than that, oh but I did read a number of posters on a Cincy site that were questioning why Ramon was not the full-time catcher. They must like what they see.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]He is known for his work with pitchers. He was selected by the players in 2003 for the all-star game (over you know who) based on that work (Tek was a better hitter back then). Baltimore and Cinncy both went to get him specfically to work with their young staffs. In both cases the teams had catchers in the sysyetm that were forecasted to rise to MLB and first with the O's and now the Reds he has worked through that process.

    His reputation is very similar to Tek's, with the exception that Oakland, SD, Baltimore and Cinncy just isn't going to drive as much national ink.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from IndefatigableSoxMan. Show IndefatigableSoxMan's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    Am I sure I don't want Varitek back?
    I've been sure since 2007.

    Ditto for Theo Epstein.

    Vindicated!

    Law
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from antibody. Show antibody's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    When you talk about Varitek the only significant number is 40, the age he will be very early next season. All other numbers are just Voo Doo.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3992292. Show user_3992292's posts

    Re: Are You Sure You Don't Want Varitek Back?

    Veritek is gone.  Reason that Theo kept him was that Theo need a back up catcher as well need a catcher to catch Wakefield and his contract was pretty cheap. 

    Now Wakefield is more likley to be gone as well for JD Drew.  

    With a new manager, team going young, etc., time for him to go too!!

    Salty/Lavarnway will do a good job. 


     

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