Athletes and religion

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : And it is not about to stop. However, if we kill God, then maybe the human race has a chance.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Picture a bright blue ball just spinning spinning free, dizzy with eternity, A peaceful place or so it looks from space, a closer look reveals the human race
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Picture a bright blue ball just spinning spinning free, dizzy with eternity, A peaceful place or so it looks from space, a closer look reveals the human race
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    And a closer look reveals the miracle of the birth of a baby, a mother's love, and unconditional love for years. Down the corridor is a man donating one of his kidneys to a complete stranger. The doctor's are confounded that every cell in the human body is new after five years but the personality and memory remain from before. They can't explain it.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I avoided active service in 1965 and joined the National Guard. My religious upbringing did not prepare me to go on a crusade to Viet Nam and kill other human beings. My country told me to do that. My country did not fight that war or any other war in our history for religious reasons. They saw Communism as an economic or territorial threat. The Civil War was fought over the economy and slavery. My religion would never tell me to fight in that War over greed but would state that slavery was wrong. WW1 and WW2 were fought because other countries wanted more territory and resources ( greed). We acquired extra territories for more resources and territory (greed). Where is the Church involved in these wars?
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Lord.... I'm no world historian but here are a few thoughts.

    WWI began with a religiously motivated assassination (Archduke) and there was Christian genocide at the hands of the Ottoman.  Did this motivate U.S. involvement,  I don't know but to say there was no religious element to WWI is again, MYOPIC.  Again, I don't remember 9th grade history that well but wasn't one of the root causes of WWI a seperation of church and state issue? 

    Where is religion involved in WWII?  Really?  Wasn't state control of the church and the establishment of a national religion one of the main tenets of Nazi Germany?  Wasn't it through the church that Nazi propaganda was spread?  Am I missing something here?  Marin Luther? Anti-sematism?  Bueller????
     
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : I avoided active service in 1965 and joined the National Guard. My religious upbringing did not prepare me to go on a crusade to Viet Nam and kill other human beings. My country told me to do that. My country did not fight that war or any other war in our history for religious reasons. They saw Communism as an economic or territorial threat. The Civil War was fought over the economy and slavery. My religion would never tell me to fight in that War over greed but would state that slavery was wrong. WW1 and WW2 were fought because other countries wanted more territory and resources ( greed). We acquired extra territories for more resources and territory (greed). Where is the Church involved in these wars?
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    1) you're not wrong, but you're cherrypicking conflicts

    2) the term "Communists" for decades has often been prefixed by "godless" by many among us so you can hardly segregate them

    3-umpteen) are you kidding me?  The outrageous sectarian violence in Northern Ireland, Scotland and elsewhere (between virtually identical beliefs!).... thousands of years of anti-Semitic abuse all over Europe, Millennia of Sunni vs Shiite warfare, the Crusades, the Armenian Holocaust, the demonisation of ALL muslims today by some.....and the coup de grace, thousands of years of history and and an endless future of violence in the Middle East among the three Abrahamic religions....."my deity is better than your deity". 

    I don't believe in deities, never have, not even as a child, but, if there are some they'd definitely favour me over the violent, hateful mobs killing each other to prove how good they are to their, the best and only, deity.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Lowell - you are not doing well with your counterpoints. Aside from those already given, may I include the following:

    Religion = The Crusades
                  The Inquisition
                  30 Years War
                  French Wars of Religion

    Most recently:
                  Lebanese Civil War
                  Second Sudanese Civil War

    God is a concept by which we measure our pain - John Lennon

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv3ic6OOXns
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    good stuff...im enjoying reading this crazy thread...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Lord.... I'm no world historian but here are a few thoughts. WWI began with a religiously motivated assassination (Archduke) and there was Christian genocide at the hands of the Ottoman.  Did this motivate U.S. involvement,  I don't know but to say there was no religious element to WWI is again, MYOPIC.  Again, I don't remember 9th grade history that well but wasn't one of the root causes of WWI a seperation of church and state issue?  Where is religion involved in WWII?  Really?  Wasn't state control of the church and the establishment of a national religion one of the main tenets of Nazi Germany?  Wasn't it through the church that Nazi propaganda was spread?  Am I missing something here?  Marin Luther? Anti-sematism?  Bueller????  
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards[/QUOTE]

    Hitler wanted a pure aerian race but no religion in Germany ever strived for that. That was all on Hitler. Martin Luther was never for a holacaust, he was a Christian.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Christianity is the last bastion of things that it is politically correct to ridicule and bash. Is that a good thing?  I don't think so.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]Don't know about anyone else, but I think spirituality is an extremely personal thing. People who wear their religion on their sleeve for all to see have always seemed a little over the top to me, like a wealthy person who spends ostentatiously, just so everyone else will see they have money. I don't dislike Tim Tebow because he's a Christian, I dislike him because of his childish "Tebowing" every time he gains a yard, as though God really does have a vested interest in the Denver Bronco's won-lost record. And I find myself wishing Adrian Gonzalez would just play baseball and let the rest of the world find its own faith. Do you think professional sports are the proper forum for evangelical pursuits?
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]

    So all the other athletes who do the same as Tebow in the NFL or point to the heavens after a HR or a goal or a win are childish. There are many who have done it before Tebow and after. Kneeling and bowing their head down. It was the media who made it bigger by tying his christianity and christian work together to make it a different thing. What about all the NFL players who get together after a game and have a group prayer?

    As for AG so what does it matter what he said. He said what he believed would you rather he lie? Does it really matter and how in GOD's name does it affect you or any one else? It's not like he is passing out booklets at your door.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : (1) I believe it is, hence my use of the word "bias".  I did not intend to belittle anyone's beliefs, and wouldn't unless they belittled mine. Then I'd slaughter their beliefs. (2)  I believe that, as a sentient being, that makes no sense at all.  But I support others' rights to believe such things.  Just keep it away from my family, my friends and myself, don't expect government handouts for tax-exempt churches and faith schools, and support the first amendment as much as I do. BTW, the only people I harass about religion are self-described "atheists" on the grounds that by allowing themselves to be dragged into the debate they are by definition giving it some validation.  I have no official position on the existence of gods any more than I have an official position on Easter Bunnies or Santas.  But if others have faith, good for you and keep it to yourself. 
    Posted by Chilliwings[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough but since this discussion originated in the setting of a ballpark, let me say this.  If some want to belittle a ballplayer for genuflecting or looking towards the sky after hitting a HR then you also should belittle thousands of fans standing up to sing the National Anthem or God Bless America under the pretention that God is on the side of a Nation, any Nation. That is just as preposterous. This country had concentration camps during WW2 and dropped a nuclear bomb on a populated city of innocent civilians under the name of patriotism. Which higher spirit or God was ever in favor of such evil? Those actions were never sanctioned by any religion and neither was the Holocaust.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Fair enough but since this discussion originated in the setting of a ballpark, let me say this.  If some want to belittle a ballplayer for genuflecting or looking towards the sky after hitting a HR then you also should belittle thousands of fans standing up to sing the National Anthem or God Bless America under the pretention that God is on the side of a Nation, any Nation. That is just as preposterous.
    It says in god we trust and under god....this just means we are a country that believes that god has given people certain rights and we believe in those right. Not that god thinks we are better of god is on our side.

    This country had concentration camps during WW2
    We had internment camps yes they were wrong but to call them concentration camps is a diservice to all those who died in them.

    and dropped a nuclear bomb on a populated city of innocent civilians under the name of patriotism.
    It was not dropped for patriotism as you stated. The numbers that all estimators came up with for an invasion of Japan was well into the millions as well as several more years of war. The Japanese had all citizens outfitted to die to the last person. They were dropped to end the war with as few AMERICAN casulties as possible and a shortened war. Rememer they bombed Pearl Harbor on a sneak attack.

    Which higher spirit or God was ever in favor of such evil?
    No one said god favored any of the evil in the world. It happens because man has free will and on many occasions decides incorrectly. Sometimes a god feringh nation needs to do the right thing even when it includes going to war against an agressor.

    Those actions were never sanctioned by any religion and neither was the Holocaust.


    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : 1) you're not wrong, but you're cherrypicking conflicts 2) the term "Communists" for decades has often been prefixed by "godless" by many among us so you can hardly segregate them 3-umpteen) are you kidding me?  The outrageous sectarian violence in Northern Ireland, Scotland and elsewhere (between virtually identical beliefs!).... thousands of years of anti-Semitic abuse all over Europe, Millennia of Sunni vs Shiite warfare, the Crusades, the Armenian Holocaust, the demonisation of ALL muslims today by some.....and the coup de grace, thousands of years of history and and an endless future of violence in the Middle East among the three Abrahamic religions....."my deity is better than your deity".  I don't believe in deities, never have, not even as a child, but, if there are some they'd definitely favour me over the violent, hateful mobs killing each other to prove how good they are to their, the best and only, deity.
    Posted by Chilliwings[/QUOTE]

    Northern Ireland was a colony of England and the population was given no rights. Were the Catholics in Britain abused equally? Did the Brits claim that their religion taught them to abuse Catholics? You tell me. If so then they were not following the teachings og Jesus Christ. Jesus preached to all of his followers that everyone is your brother. Don't blame Jesus for a church leadership that deviated from his teachings.

    Anti-Semetism was never a belief of any true Christian. Jesus would never sanction that. Don't blame "churches" that went astray that were runned by politicians as being against Jews. Why would Hitler burn down all of the churches and kill their members if they were on his side. Christians in Nazi Germany were afraid for their lives.


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : And it is not about to stop. However, if we kill God, then maybe the human race has a chance.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    Left to their own devices, man would run amok.

    And religion is not the problem, it is the people that use religion to further their personal causes that is the problem.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]good stuff...im enjoying reading this crazy thread...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    I'm also finding it fascinating..
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : And a closer look reveals the miracle of the birth of a baby, a mother's love, and unconditional love for years. Down the corridor is a man donating one of his kidneys to a complete stranger. The doctor's are confounded that every cell in the human body is new after five years but the personality and memory remain from before. They can't explain it.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    It's kind of a funny thing, but for all the complaints about life here on the blue dot, most of the people leave here kicking and screaming.

    Here's a question for the non-believers-if life for you were to continue as is, never getting much better or much worse, would you choose to end it, or would you choose to live this way forever?

    Without getting all Jimmy Stewart on youse, most of us live incredibly rich lives.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Northern Ireland was a colony of England and the population was given no rights. Were the Catholics in Britain abused equally? Did the Brits claim that their religion taught them to abuse Catholics? You tell me. If so then they were not following the teachings og Jesus Christ. Jesus preached to all of his followers that everyone is your brother. Don't blame Jesus for a church leadership that deviated from his teachings. Anti-Semetism was never a belief of any true Christian. Jesus would never sanction that. Don't blame "churches" that went astray that were runned by politicians as being against Jews. Why would Hitler burn down all of the churches and kill their members if they were on his side. Christians in Nazi Germany were afraid for their lives.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Hold on; I did not blame Catholics or any other Christians specifically for the examples of religion-based problems I listed.  I was just pointing out that there have been and remain terrible acts and hatreds based in a number of religions.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : It's kind of a funny thing, but for all the complaints about life here on the blue dot, most of the people leave here kicking and screaming. Here's a question for the non-believers-if life for you were to continue as is, never getting much better or much worse, would you choose to end it, or would you choose to live this way forever? Without getting all Jimmy Stewart on youse, most of us live incredibly rich lives.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Why do you assume I am not happy with my life?  At this point I'd say forever as it is....I get great pleasure out of it.

    I hate it when (most) people in the modern West complain....half the world lives on a dollar per day and yet people complain about taxes, etc.  Pitiful.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

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    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Left to their own devices, man would run amok. And religion is not the problem, it is the people that use religion to further their personal causes that is the problem.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Ah, the NRA argument "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."  I don't buy it.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : It's kind of a funny thing, but for all the complaints about life here on the blue dot, most of the people leave here kicking and screaming. Here's a question for the non-believers-if life for you were to continue as is, never getting much better or much worse, would you choose to end it, or would you choose to live this way forever? Without getting all Jimmy Stewart on youse, most of us live incredibly rich lives.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Who wants to live forever?

    I would never personally end my time here. When my body fails and it is time to leave, I wish everyone the best of things and ask them not to cry. If my life was to end tragically early as so many before me, I am ready to go and with no regrets. And if I was to live to 85, then as long as I can still make a mean meat gravy on Sundays with sausage and meatballs, life is good.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    Joebreidey,

    Interesting question given that it's christians that look forward to the end of the world(rapture).

    What makes you think non-beleivers would be more prone to suicide?

    I guess it must be that nonsense about life having no meaning if it isn't to continue in an afterlife.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    As long as sports condones celebration for any reason...any act is no worse than any other.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    If you choose to be a secular humanist, deep thinking , atheist, " progressive" , that is certainly your prerogative.  I am sure your professors are proud of you. However , if you choose to ridicule and demean the faith of others, try to at least have the courage to ridicule all religions , rather than always singling out Christianity.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from REBEL. Show REBEL's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]Don't know about anyone else, but I think spirituality is an extremely personal thing. People who wear their religion on their sleeve for all to see have always seemed a little over the top to me, like a wealthy person who spends ostentatiously, just so everyone else will see they have money. I don't dislike Tim Tebow because he's a Christian, I dislike him because of his childish "Tebowing" every time he gains a yard, as though God really does have a vested interest in the Denver Bronco's won-lost record. And I find myself wishing Adrian Gonzalez would just play baseball and let the rest of the world find its own faith. Do you think professional sports are the proper forum for evangelical pursuits?
    Posted by davetheknave[/QUOTE]


    A person of faith does on put on that faith when they enter their house of worship, and put it in the drawer when they get home.  It becomes an integral part of them, and who they are!  Adrian is quite and handles situations involving faith with great finess.  Much to his credit!  Tebow flaunts his faith, and that is his right, but it tends to rub people the wrong way.  But, I do believe Tebow is genuine!  Faith is at home and proper anywhere in life!  No restrictions!!


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yoshimi25. Show Yoshimi25's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : It's kind of a funny thing, but for all the complaints about life here on the blue dot, most of the people leave here kicking and screaming. Here's a question for the non-believers-if life for you were to continue as is, never getting much better or much worse, would you choose to end it, or would you choose to live this way forever? Without getting all Jimmy Stewart on youse, most of us live incredibly rich lives.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]


    Better or worse is a relative thing - do you mean financially, intellectually, romantically, or in general?  From my own perspective, it's hard for me to conceive taking no action towards improvement.  That being said, the mind itself is constantly in motion - simply waking up every morning provides a new experience and therefore provides improvement - even if it is just slight.  For life to get no better or no worse, one would have to essentially be brain dead - in which case, alive or dead is not even something one would be aware of.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Athletes and religion

    In Response to Re: Athletes and religion:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Athletes and religion : Here they are. which ones should we get rif of? ONE: ' You shall have no other gods before Me. ' TWO: ' You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. ' THREE: ' You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. ' FOUR: ' Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. ' FIVE: ' Honor your father and your mother. ' SIX: ' You shall not murder. ' SEVEN: ' You shall not commit adultery. ' EIGHT: ' You shall not steal. ' NINE: ' You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. ' TEN: ' You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's. '
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Does this mean I have to get rid of my singing "Billy Bass" ??
     

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