Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    I absolutely think he deserves a shot to start.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox:
    [QUOTE]I absolutely think he deserves a shot to start.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    So do I gale. nothing ventured, nothing gained. If he wants to start, give him a chance to prove himself, the debate will be over one way or the other. Valentine said he would give him 18-20 innings to decide if he would put him in the rotation or keep him in the pen. seems too small of a sample to me
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

       IMO give him a chance, my only question is that he have enough pitches in his arsenal, fastball and one off speed pitch isn't going to cut it.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox:
    [QUOTE]I absolutely think he deserves a shot to start.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    And frankly, there could be some real upside to it. I hope he becomes the ace!! The kid is all class and does indeed have the "raw stuff", so hopefully Bobby V and his staff can make him a awesome starter.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox : And frankly, there could be some real upside to it. I hope he becomes the ace!! The kid is all class and does indeed have the "raw stuff", so hopefully Bobby V and his staff can make him a awesome starter.
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]
    Agreed. You will never know if you don't give it a try.  What is there to lose? 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tbs2007. Show tbs2007's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    So giving the guy 3 games before he decides to let him stay in the Starting rotation, or to go back to the pen is too small a sample? Outside of his total implosion at the end of last year, we know what he can do in the pen. Don't forget they tried Papelbon as a starter too, we all saw how that worked out!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    I'd rather he went to the pen and the Sox took any money set aside for Madson and got a SP with it.

    What's Roy Oswalt's asking price these days?  Or Javier Vazquez?

    And yes, Vazquez would be a better SP than Bard.  Maybe not in April, but certainly by the end of July...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    My problem with Bard starting is what to do in August as his innings count starts to hit the ceiling. Bard hasn't had the year to year increases to go 180 plus innings. Does he shut it down at that time? Skip starts? We have seen Joba and Hughes struggle with this same situation, Bard to valuable to risk
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox:
    [QUOTE]My problem with Bard starting is what to do in August as his innings count starts to hit the ceiling. Bard hasn't had the year to year increases to go 180 plus innings. Does he shut it down at that time? Skip starts? We have seen Joba and Hughes struggle with this same situation, Bard to valuable to risk
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    It seems to happen to most pitchers who convert from starter to reliever.  CJ Wilson got rocked in his first September as a starter.  Last year, Alexei Ogando barely made it through August.  Kyle McClellan didn't make it to the AS break.

    Granted. not all releivers are created equal.  (Kyle McClellan?  Seriously?) But durability stands to be a huge factor here.  One can only hope Daisuke is ready by the AS break...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    I say try him out in ST, if he can't go deep he can always close.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    Notin, you will need to name that starting pitcher for your set aside.

    Bard's best value is as a starter. Ditto for Aceves. One may need to stay in pen, and it will likely be Aceves, but will sort out in spring.

    On another thread, I listed specific names and contract offer amounts 1-2M for one more bottom tier starter and a veteran starter to AAA.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from never1954. Show never1954's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    throw it up against the wall and hope it sticks.  let him start.  quality starters are more difficult to find.  i bet he has the makings....just find a pitching coach that can bring him along correctly and hope that Bobby V can handle a pitching staff better than Tito
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    I wasnt for this but im coming around...plus it could signal a trade of lardface beckett...Im in!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    If I were 9 I would be devastated by my hero's demise.  Beckett has let this 40 year old down.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    me too Burrito...he really was my fav player...cant believe he would do that to the team and his manager
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox:
    [QUOTE]I'd rather he went to the pen and the Sox took any money set aside for Madson and got a SP with it. What's Roy Oswalt's asking price these days?  Or Javier Vazquez? And yes, Vazquez would be a better SP than Bard.  Maybe not in April, but certainly by the end of July...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    I hope there is more than one Javier Vazquez, because the Vazquez I'm familiar with routinely gets shelled in the AL.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    "My problem with Bard starting is what to do in August as his innings count starts to hit the ceiling. Bard hasn't had the year to year increases to go 180 plus innings. Does he shut it down at that time? Skip starts? We have seen Joba and Hughes struggle with this same situation, Bard to valuable to risk"

    That is the big question I have too.

    Would they consider starting him for 1/2 the season and then have him finish in the pen if/when Dice K comes back??  Not sure if that would be at all realistic. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox:
    [QUOTE]I wasnt for this but im coming around...plus it could signal a trade of lardface beckett...Im in!
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Very few teams trade their best pitcher.  I agree that he should improve his conditioning.  But he was one of the best pitchers in BB last year, and about as important, he killed the NYY and TB.

    He was 6-0 against those two teams with a an ERA of ~ 1.45.

    There is really no one you can trade him for that would bring back the equivalent for the RS.  On skills alone, there are better players, but when you throw in his big-game ability, I wouldn't trade him even up for anyone.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox : I hope there is more than one Javier Vazquez, because the Vazquez I'm familiar with routinely gets shelled in the AL.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Well, there is the one who was an All Star with the Yankees in 2004 and then there  is the one who had a 3.74 ERA with the White Sox in 2007.  He wasn't all that bad in 3 years with the White Sox, actually.

    Really, 2010 with the Yankees was his only really bad year. Also, it was his only year since 1999 he didn't throw 190IP.  Keep that in mind....
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox : Well, there is the one who was an All Star with the Yankees in 2004 and then there  is the one who had a 3.74 ERA with the White Sox in 2007.  He wasn't all that bad in 3 years with the White Sox, actually. Really, 2010 with the Yankees was his only really bad year. Also, it was his only year since 1999 he didn't throw 190IP.  Keep that in mind....
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    In his three years wiht the WS, he was 38-36 with a 4.40, with 207 IPs per, and is now 35.  That was in 2008.  Saunders, who's getting bashed, was 39-24 with a 4.15 in his last three seasons with LAA, and will only be 31.  In his last stint with the NYY, Vazquez had a 5.32.  The last time Saunders had a 5.32 was never.  I certainly wouldn't overpay, but I'd expect him to out-produce Vazquez modestly.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    I'd also expect hm to outcost Vazquez, whom I said was a superior option to Bard.

    And might even do a one year deal.

    Also, when it comes to FIP and ERA-FIP differential, Javier Vazquez is one of he best in baseball, mostly becuase he almost always has an outstanding K/BB ration.  Te ability to miss bats while staying in the zone is huge...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    Notin, I disagree on value of Bard or Aceves as a starter over Vazquez market price beyond 1 to 2M plus incentives for one year.

    So, what amount and term do you advocate the Red Sox offer Vazquez?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In response to "Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox : So do I gale. nothing ventured, nothing gained. If he wants to start, give him a chance to prove himself, the debate will be over one way or the other. Valentine said he would give him 18-20 innings to decide if he would put him in the rotation or keep him in the pen. seems too small of a sample to me Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE] J, I think it makes a big difference that it was Bard himself who initiated this move. That makes me feel a LOT better about it. He's seeing it as a challenge, and trying to take advantage of it. That allays some of my fears about his mental toughness. Good for him.
     
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    Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox

    In Response to Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Bard: I've got 'raw stuff' to start for Sox": J, I think it makes a big difference that it was Bard himself who initiated this move. That makes me feel a LOT better about it. He's seeing it as a challenge, and trying to take advantage of it. That allays some of my fears about his mental toughness. Good for him.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]

    Excellent points, Examiner.
     

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