Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]  WHAT IS THE NEXT CARLTON FISK WORTH ????    DO NOT, "LET ME BE CLEAR", DO NOT EVEN THINK OF TRADING LAVARNWAY !!!!!
    Posted by Bill-806[/QUOTE]

    I'M WITH YOU BILL! WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE THINKING!

    There is little likelihood that Lavarnway has a career as long as Fisk's but if you look at Lavarnway's hitting numbers in the minors, and compare them to Fisk's, Lavarnway projects to be a better hitter. Hard to believe huh. And Lavarnway has a Fenway swing waiting to happen and should benefit from Fenway overall, as Fisk did. Better average. Better OBP. Better Slugging.

    It's not like Fisk was a defensive gem when he came up either.

    And Lavarnway seems to have the work eithic and intangibles of a top achiever as well.

    Let's be honest. Probability indicates that Lavarnway will never match Fisk but the numbers right now put him in that ball park potentially. We'd be crazy to trade Lavarnway unless someone really opens up their wallet bigtime.

    I'll go out on a limb and say this guy probably makes it big. Ala Pedroia. Ala Ellbsury. If Ortiz turned down arb, I think he would have been with the big club. Those 6 years of control we have should be excellent and I bet he ends up getting retained after that. He's the kind of guy we should want on the sox team.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    Montero is generally regarded as better than Lavarnway, however that could change. Lavarnway is our catcher of the future. Would not trade him for anything less than a Pineda type. Trades and free agent signings are always a risk. Sox should try to focus on locking up their core talent and supplement with low cost young guys from the minors. Then the occasional free agent to fill a need. At some point , you have to learn from your mistakes.
     
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    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In response to "Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?": [QUOTE]rkarp---this is my Moneyball---yours is yours.  Everything is in the eye of the beholder---Ells is my tradeworthy player--many on the forum view him as an untouchable--I view him as the mystery guy--will he have another great season or won't he? Will he increase his trade value or reduce it?-half full--half empty? Let the buyer beware. If the Sox can reap what they need from moving Ells-that's my Money in the Bank Moneyball---don't wait too long--strile while the iron is hot--the Jay's have to make a move, watch them move quickly for Hernandez---for the Mariners what's the point in keeping Hernandez now? $19 M a year for what a third place finish at best in the West?  Like the Sox, what's the point in keeping Ells, Youk, Beckett and Buch if you are not going all in to field the very best team possible that has a shot at the playoffs. Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE] Mad. Even if he increases his worth this year, which team gives up fair trade value talent for one year of control? Don't you get it? The value is tied to how long you can control/keep Ellsbury. If Ellsbury was locked into a 3-5 year contract, that makes his value much higher. To think a team parts win a talent like Pineda for one year of Ellsbury is unrealistic. In this market, Montero and Lavarnway have more value than Ellsbury.
     
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    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    2 years of decent cost control of Ellsbury is worth a lot. Look at what the Yanks paid for Granderson, who was in a similar position I would think. I don't have time to look it up but it wasn't chicken feed. 

    The guy places 2nd in last year's MVP vote and some of you guys can't wait to trade him. Yee of little faith!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In response to "Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?": [QUOTE]2 years of decent cost control of Ellsbury is worth a lot. Look at what the Yanks paid for Granderson, who was in a similar position I would think. I don't have time to look it up but it wasn't chicken feed.  The guy places 2nd in last year's MVP vote and some of you guys can't wait to trade him. Yee of little faith! Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE] It's not 2 years. It's this year, and then next year you have to sign him( unlikely with Boras) or trade him( again unlikely as he will test the market) Based on that, how does he have value in a trade? Wasn't Grandy traded for Austin Jackson? I still contend based on what Montero returned, Lavarnway and his potential and cost control years has more value than Ellsbury. Ask yourself, do the Mariners trade Pineda straight up for Ellsbury? I would think not.
     
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    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In response to "Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?": [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?": It's not 2 years. It's this year, and then next year you have to sign him( unlikely with Boras) or trade him( again unlikely as he will test the market) Based on that, how does he have value in a trade? Wasn't Grandy traded for Austin Jackson? I still contend based on what Montero returned, Lavarnway and his potential and cost control years has more value than Ellsbury. Ask yourself, do the Mariners trade Pineda straight up for Ellsbury? I would think not. Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE] Ellsbury has even less value to the Mariners since they are in rebuild mode in a division with two stacked teams. They have some young pitching, some young hitting and an ace to build around, but they are at LEAST a year away, so Ellsbury makes no sense. If Ellsbury hits the market after '13 with similar numbers as '11, they will definitely be suitors, but not now....Madmc seems like nice guy, but he doesn't understand the business side of baseball and never thinks his numerous trade proposals through before throwing them out there....
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?": It's not 2 years. It's this year, and then next year you have to sign him( unlikely with Boras) or trade him( again unlikely as he will test the market) Based on that, how does he have value in a trade? Wasn't Grandy traded for Austin Jackson? I still contend based on what Montero returned, Lavarnway and his potential and cost control years has more value than Ellsbury. Ask yourself, do the Mariners trade Pineda straight up for Ellsbury? I would think not.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]
    Jacoby Ellsbury remains under his team's control through the 2013 season ... that's two seasons.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    I keep seeing how great Larvarnway is but I am not reading that when I do searches on the internet.  MLB.com doesn't even have him in the top ten catching prospects in the minors.  What am I missing?
     
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110114&content_id=16441722&c_id=mlb
     
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    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]Lavarnway will be better than Montero.  I think the question it begs is a good one.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    This was clear last year as Lavarnway was much more impressive at the plate than Montero.  Oh wait....

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/monteje01.shtml

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lavarry01.shtml
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]Lavarnway will be better than Montero.  I think the question it begs is a good one.
    Posted by SoxPatsCelts1988[/QUOTE]

    This was clear as Lavarnway was far more impressive than Montero last year during their major league call-ups.  Oh wait......

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/monteje01.shtml

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lavarry01.shtml
     
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    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? : This was clear as Lavarnway was far more impressive than Montero last year during their major league call-ups.  Oh wait...... http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/monteje01.shtml http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lavarry01.shtml
    Posted by Camelwalk[/QUOTE]

    Montero had 69 PAs with the Yankees.  If your first 69 PAs is your criteria for judging a player, then Josh Reddick blew them both away.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]I keep seeing how great Larvarnway is but I am not reading that when I do searches on the internet.  MLB.com doesn't even have him in the top ten catching prospects in the minors.  What am I missing?   http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110114&content_id=16441722&c_id=mlb
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]

    Those rankings are too old - Lavarnway was a sleeper prospect, who just keeps getting better and better.  Scouting Book just released their 2012 rankings, and has him at #102 overall, but there's not a catcher at any level of professional baseball who had a better 2011 than Lavarnway.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? : Montero had 69 PAs with the Yankees.  If your first 69 PAs is your criteria for judging a player, then Josh Reddick blew them both away.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]
    In his first 59 MLB plate appearances, Josh Reddick posted a .169/.210/.339/.549 line as a 22-year-old in 2009. In his next 10 MLB plate appearances as a 23-year-old the following season, Reddick posted a .222/.222/.556/.778 line.
     
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    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In response to "Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? : Jacoby Ellsbury remains under his team's control through the 2013 season ... that's two seasons. Posted by hill55[/QUOTE] Yes, he is under contract. But if you don't sign him, don't you trade him before the season or before the trade deadline, or risk him walking for nothing. So if you trade for Ellsbury today, you have him for 2012 and half of 2013. Where is the value to that as opposed to 5 years of control of Montero or Lavarnway potential.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? : Montero had 69 PAs with the Yankees.  If your first 69 PAs is your criteria for judging a player, then Josh Reddick blew them both away.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]

    Apparently it was enough for the poster I was responding to, to say that Lavarnway will be a better player/hitter.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    It makes me wonder why we were not looking into Pineda who is not a high salary guy ? I am surprised. Monterro is not projected to be a topline catcher so why not kick the tires on Pineda with Lavarney as bait. We never did.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]It makes me wonder why we were not looking into Pineda who is not a high salary guy ? I am surprised. Monterro is not projected to be a topline catcher so why not kick the tires on Pineda with Lavarney as bait. We never did.
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]

    It would've taken more than just Lavarnway to get Pineda
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    What makes you think Monterro is that much better than Lavarney ? Who is the other guy the Yankees gave up. Monterro only has 61 at bats at the Major League Level right ?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? : It would've taken more than just Lavarnway to get Pineda
    Posted by Camelwalk[/QUOTE]
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]What makes you think Monterro is that much better than Lavarney ? Who is the other guy the Yankees gave up. Monterro only has 61 at bats at the Major League Level right ? In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? :
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]
    Well scouts all over the place have projected Montero to be a better hitter than Lavarnway so take it up with them as for MLB at bats Lavarnway had 39 and hit .231, Montero had 61 and hit .328.
     
    The Yanks gave up Montero and Noesi and got Pineda and Campos
     
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    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    Please Marcus Jackson was suppose to be an Allstar Centerfielder who hit what 249 last year. They should have kept Grandersson he was a lot better.  Had to have been money going to Detroit. Its a long way from Triple AAA to the Majors. The Yankees very rarely give up good players in trades. They build up the hype on their prospects and dump them for established players. Cervelli was suppose to be another cannot miss guy as well.

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? : Well scouts all over the place have projected Montero to be a better hitter than Lavarnway so take it up with them as for MLB at bats Lavarnway had 39 and hit .231, Montero had 61 and hit .328.   The Yanks gave up Montero and Noesi and got Pineda and Campos
    Posted by Camelwalk[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]It makes me wonder why we were not looking into Pineda who is not a high salary guy ? I am surprised. Monterro is not projected to be a topline catcher so why not kick the tires on Pineda with Lavarney as bait. We never did.
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]

    How do you know we never did?  Montero was rated 3/4 the last two years.  Lav never cracked the top-100.  Montero conquered AAA at age 20.  Lav conquered it at age 23.  Lav had a reasonable breakin with the RS, but Montero hit .996 last year.  The only way Lav is ever worth as much as Montero is if Lav catches and Montero doesn't.  I think they are closer than their respective rankings, but Montero is still the more highly rated prospect by a fair amount.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]Please Marcus Jackson was supp[ose to be an Allstar Centerfielder who hit what 249 last year. They should have kept Grandersson he was a lot better.  Had to have been money going to Detroit. In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? :
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]

    All these thoughts that you're trying to project onto Montero can be projected onto Lavarnway whom you guys seem to have this desperate need to hear is better, when it is the general consensus among scouts that he is not going to be as good.  The fact is in their brief MLB experience Montero was much more impressive than Lavarnway....we'll see what they do next season.

    BTW there was never any hype that Cervelli was supposed to be a can't miss guy and the hype comes from all teams, I remember when there was a lot of Sox hype about Manny Del Carmen.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    Camelwalk why are you just starting to post recently ? Were you someone else before this ? 


    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? : All these thoughts that you're trying to project onto Montero can be projected onto Lavarnway whom you guys seem to have this desperate need to hear is better, when it is the general consensus among scouts that he is not going to be as good.  The fact is in their brief MLB experience Montero was much more impressive than Lavarnway....we'll see what they do next season.
    Posted by Camelwalk[/QUOTE]
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]Camelwalk why are you just starting to post recently ? Were you someone else before this ?  In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? :
    Posted by AL34[/QUOTE]

    Why the desperate need to hear that Lavarnway is better than Montero when the general consensus among scouts is that he won't be? 

    Answer that and I'll answer your question.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?

    What makes you think he is not just as good. The Yankees were shopping the guy before this at the winter meetings.

    In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Begs the question what is Lavarnway worth? : Why the desperate need to hear that Lavarnway is better than Montero when the general consensus among scouts is that he won't be?  Answer that and I'll answer your question.
    Posted by Camelwalk[/QUOTE]
     

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