Boras on Drew

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Don't care if Drew was a top 1 .....2-54 enough said......

    [/QUOTE]

    What about the 13 HR and 67 RBI in 124 games?  Those are pretty good old school stats.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     Here we go again...... So because Drew had 13 HR and 67 makes going 2-54 when you need him the most is ok.? Heck.. Lester could have gone 4-50 himself.... The new season was the payoffs and automatic Annie couldn't hit a beach ball.. Not worth all the money he's asking.  Were you happy to see Drew come to bat?  The other team was... If you are happy with what he did in the past and use that as a reason he should get big money . so be it. Thats your opinion and thats ok !

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    Obviously Drew had a huge batting slump in the postseason.  But his defence in the postseason made up for it.  He made all the routine plays and several great ones.  It was our pitching and defence that carried us in the playoffs, because outside of Ortiz hardly anyone was hitting. 

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    Just don't sell Drew to me on OPS.  He's a 250 hitter at best with good fielding.  Let's let Bogey take a shot at SS and Drew sign a big contract with, say, the Yankees.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Don't care if Drew was a top 1 .....2-54 enough said......

    [/QUOTE]

    What about the 13 HR and 67 RBI in 124 games?  Those are pretty good old school stats.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     Here we go again...... So because Drew had 13 HR and 67 makes going 2-54 when you need him the most is ok.? Heck.. Lester could have gone 4-50 himself.... The new season was the payoffs and automatic Annie couldn't hit a beach ball.. Not worth all the money he's asking.  Were you happy to see Drew come to bat?  The other team was... If you are happy with what he did in the past and use that as a reason he should get big money . so be it. Thats your opinion and thats ok !

    [/QUOTE]

    I'll ask again, what is this 2-54 that you are referring to?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to Ergoetal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Just don't sell Drew to me on OPS.  He's a 250 hitter at best with good fielding.  Let's let Bogey take a shot at SS and Drew sign a big contract with, say, the Yankees.

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't sell you on OPS?  BB is a numbers-driven game, more so than any other sport.  OPS is probably the most universally accepted statistic for hitting.  I've heard the phrase 'my mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts' before, but never thought people actually think that way.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I am quite sure Cherington will assign a fair value to Drew, and also quite sure he will not go over it (regardless of Boras comment). I am also quite sure some one will over pay for Drew, meaning he will leave. This team is ripe with SP's and SS's in the pipeline, and I feel we are not too far off from seeing X at 3B, Marrero at SS and Middlebrooks moved for other needs.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    rkarp, too many of you out there are ready to discard Middlebrooks as excess baggage, but the guy has 30+ home run power and there aren't many young third basemen who can project that.  This Marrero you talk about is a very weak hitter; he didn't even break 300 at Arizona State and he has showen a weak bat in his two seasons in the minors with us.  You also conveniently left out Garin Cecchini who is one of the two best young hitters in our organization.  Where do yuou expect him to go?  To another team for other needs while we put a weak hitter in the lineup?

    Point is, you don't write off a young ballplayer with power and run production potential because of an off sophomore season.  WMB is young enough and smart enough to make the adjustments to become a stalwart for us. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:

    Point is, you don't write off a young ballplayer with power and run production potential because of an off sophomore season.  WMB is young enough and smart enough to make the adjustments to become a stalwart for us. 

    It wasn't just a sophomore slump ... Will Middlebrooks 2013 slash line resembled his 2012 slash line after the trade of Kevin Youkilis.

    Middlebrooks' extreme K/BB ratio in six professional seasons -- not a just a sophomore slump -- should temper the expectations going forward.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I am quite sure Cherington will assign a fair value to Drew, and also quite sure he will not go over it (regardless of Boras comment). I am also quite sure some one will over pay for Drew, meaning he will leave. This team is ripe with SP's and SS's in the pipeline, and I feel we are not too far off from seeing X at 3B, Marrero at SS and Middlebrooks moved for other needs.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    rkarp, too many of you out there are ready to discard Middlebrooks as excess baggage, but the guy has 30+ home run power and there aren't many young third basemen who can project that.  This Marrero you talk about is a very weak hitter; he didn't even break 300 at Arizona State and he has showen a weak bat in his two seasons in the minors with us.  You also conveniently left out Garin Cecchini who is one of the two best young hitters in our organization.  Where do yuou expect him to go?  To another team for other needs while we put a weak hitter in the lineup?

    Point is, you don't write off a young ballplayer with power and run production potential because of an off sophomore season.  WMB is young enough and smart enough to make the adjustments to become a stalwart for us. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Most of Middlebrooks' critics are also somehwta dissatisfied with his minor league play.   The problem with him is simple, he never learned plate discipline, and hitters without plate discipling often get exposed at the MLB level.  Hitters who try to learn plate discipline at the MLB level will also inevitably find out it almost never works.  They become even easier outs than they were before.

     

    So Marrero has a "weak bat" in A-ball, which is really all he has played?  He has hit .258 / .345 OBP in low and high A ball.  He also has 76 walks against 108 strikeouts in that same timeframe.   Yet future power bat Middlebrooks at those same levels, hit .267 / .330 OBP.  Not much better, but at least he hit it over the fence a few times?  Right?

     

    The root of Middlebrooks problems at the plate is always the issue - too many strikeouts and no walks.  In A-ball alone, he struck out 287 times against 95 walks.  Marreo struck out 108 times and still had 76 walks in A-ball.  Will's K/BB ratio has only gotten worse since A-ball.  95K against 21BB in AA ball.  168K against 33BB in MLB

     

    As for Cecchini, when he makes it to MLB, my guess is RF.  Victorino will be gone after 2015, Cecchini has the arm for RF, and either Bogaerts or Middlebrooks will be holding down 3B (It will be Bogaerts.)..

     

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    As for Cecchini, when he makes it to MLB, my guess is RF.  Victorino will be gone after 2015, Cecchini has the arm for RF, and either Bogaerts or Middlebrooks will be holding down 3B (It will be Bogaerts.)..

    I think Bogey should be at 3B in 2014. I even advocated giving him reps there in AAA this year.

    However, I see Ben sticking with him at SS and soaking in the great offense from a position of normal weakness on O. Cecchini will be our 3Bman by 2015.

    Middy will be at 1B or with another team by 2015.

    Just a hunch.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from one-for-the-road. Show one-for-the-road's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Every time we sign a Drew we win a World Series!

    [/QUOTE]


    yeah, but they were stuck with JD 4 more years; Stephen is or will be one and gone; I dont mind the JD signing, just wish it'd have been a 1 year thing

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     Here we go again...... So because Drew had 13 HR and 67 makes going 2-54 when you need him the most is ok.? Heck.. Lester could have gone 4-50 himself.... The new season was the payoffs and automatic Annie couldn't hit a beach ball.. Not worth all the money he's asking.  Were you happy to see Drew come to bat?  The other team was... If you are happy with what he did in the past and use that as a reason he should get big money . so be it. Thats your opinion and thats ok !

    [/QUOTE]


    Going into the season, I thought the Drew signing was good, mostly because at that time, Iglesias had not proven that he could be a full time major league SS.  If nothing else, Drew provided depth at that position.

    In hindsight, the signing turned out to be a great one.  Despite Drew's (and most of the team's) offensive woes in the playoffs, the Red Sox reached the ultimate goal.  It turned out that Drew's veteran presence on the field defensively was huge.

    That doesn't even take into account that his signing allowed us to acquire Peavy and a coveted draft pick.

    I would love to see Drew back, but he has earned his chance for a long term contract.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to seabeachfred's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    rkarp, too many of you out there are ready to discard Middlebrooks as excess baggage, but the guy has 30+ home run power and there aren't many young third basemen who can project that.  This Marrero you talk about is a very weak hitter; he didn't even break 300 at Arizona State and he has showen a weak bat in his two seasons in the minors with us.  You also conveniently left out Garin Cecchini who is one of the two best young hitters in our organization.  Where do yuou expect him to go?  To another team for other needs while we put a weak hitter in the lineup?

    Point is, you don't write off a young ballplayer with power and run production potential because of an off sophomore season.  WMB is young enough and smart enough to make the adjustments to become a stalwart for us. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Fred, I am still waiting for the day that you will realize there is more to a player's offensive worth than HRs and RBIs.  And do you ever even consider defense?

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

     

    In response to Ergoetal's comment:

    Just don't sell Drew to me on OPS.  He's a 250 hitter at best with good fielding.  Let's let Bogey take a shot at SS and Drew sign a big contract with, say, the Yankees.

     



    Don't sell you on OPS?  BB is a numbers-driven game, more so than any other sport.  OPS is probably the most universally accepted statistic for hitting.  I've heard the phrase 'my mind is made up, don't confuse me with the facts' before, but never thought people actually think that way.

     



    There's a ton of things that aren't in the numbers.  Like knowing when to keep the energy of a rally alive with a quick swing every now and then, or hitting in the clutch, or going the other way when you're a pull hitter and you're in a slump, or, when you're in a slump maybe trying to hit a pitch that looks to you like it's a tiny bit off the plate because, say, you're in a big game and the ump may be a little pitcher-friendly that day.

    When Boras sells on OPS, it means there's little else to go on.

    I liked Stephen.  He was good defensively and came to the park to play each day, which is way more than you could say about JD.  But at the plate Stephen looked like JD -- occasional bouts of goodness, but lots of bat-on-shoulder at key moments.  And Stephen was a stop-gap measure.  Now I'd like to see the RS work on the SS of the future, not on Drew.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    But OPS is a very simple stat.

    Drew's BA was only .253 - fact.

    But because he drew a lot of walks his on-base pct. was a respectable .333.  He got on base one-third of the time.

    More importantly because of his extra-base hit power, his slugging pct. was a much more than respectable .443 - higher than Pedroia's, for example.

    It's also very true that he was streaky, but when you look into it many, if not most, hitters are.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    But OPS is a very simple stat.

    Drew's BA was only .253 - fact.

    But because he drew a lot of walks his on-base pct. was a respectable .333.  He got on base one-third of the time.

    More importantly because of his extra-base hit power, his slugging pct. was a much more than respectable .443 - higher than Pedroia's, for example.

    It's also very true that he was streaky, but when you look into it many, if not most, hitters are.



    Pedroia is anything but a slugger.  He hits the odd home run and a few doubles.  Good hitter, but he shouldn't bat 3rd.  Second, or first, but not third.

    So you'd like to see Drew starting SS this year rather than Bogey?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to Ergoetal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedroia is anything but a slugger.  He hits the odd home run and a few doubles.  Good hitter, but he shouldn't bat 3rd.  Second, or first, but not third.

    So you'd like to see Drew starting SS this year rather than Bogey?

    [/QUOTE]

    Personally I'd like to see Drew at SS and Bogey at 3rd.

    Drew will probably be too expensive though.  I think he's probably gone.  I just think he had a very solid season for us, that's all.

     

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to Ergoetal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    But OPS is a very simple stat.

    Drew's BA was only .253 - fact.

    But because he drew a lot of walks his on-base pct. was a respectable .333.  He got on base one-third of the time.

    More importantly because of his extra-base hit power, his slugging pct. was a much more than respectable .443 - higher than Pedroia's, for example.

    It's also very true that he was streaky, but when you look into it many, if not most, hitters are.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Pedroia is anything but a slugger.  He hits the odd home run and a few doubles.  Good hitter, but he shouldn't bat 3rd.  Second, or first, but not third.

    So you'd like to see Drew starting SS this year rather than Bogey?

    [/QUOTE]

    The issue is not that simple i.e.:

    • Salary
    • Length of contract
    • Alternative position (3B) available for Bogaerts

    Ignore the horse-and-buggy nonsense about Drew's 2013 regular season batting average and his SSS batting failure in the post-season.  In WAR terms, he massively outperformed his salary in only about 130 games and was the starting SS for the national champions of the continental United States and Toronto.

    For SS/3B in 2014, I think only Drew is certain to deliver a high performance. Bogaerts is likely to, IMO, but who knows?....And Midds is a crapshoot at this point.  

    I don't think it's absurd to think Midds might continue to regress.....and while I'm a long term buyer of Bogaerts, I don't think he's a slam dunk to excel in 2014.

    ....the defending champs with a 21-year old (super) prospect and a guy demoted to AAA last year as the left side of our infield?  Hmmm.

     

     

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    When Boras sells on OPS, it means there's little else to go on

    That's like saying that when Boras sells on Boggs' average, he has little else to sell.  Which could be true, but would still be meaningless.  Drew was outstanding offensively for a SS this year.  Admit it and move on.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Ergoetal's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    But OPS is a very simple stat.

    Drew's BA was only .253 - fact.

    But because he drew a lot of walks his on-base pct. was a respectable .333.  He got on base one-third of the time.

    More importantly because of his extra-base hit power, his slugging pct. was a much more than respectable .443 - higher than Pedroia's, for example.

    It's also very true that he was streaky, but when you look into it many, if not most, hitters are.

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Pedroia is anything but a slugger.  He hits the odd home run and a few doubles.  Good hitter, but he shouldn't bat 3rd.  Second, or first, but not third.

    So you'd like to see Drew starting SS this year rather than Bogey?

    [/QUOTE]

    The issue is not that simple i.e.:

    • Salary
    • Length of contract
    • Alternative position (3B) available for Bogaerts

    Ignore the horse-and-buggy nonsense about Drew's 2013 regular season batting average and his SSS batting failure in the post-season.  In WAR terms, he massively outperformed his salary in only about 130 games and was the starting SS for the national champions of the continental United States and Toronto.

    For SS/3B in 2014, I think only Drew is certain to deliver a high performance. Bogaerts is likely to, IMO, but who knows?....And Midds is a crapshoot at this point.  

    I don't think it's absurd to think Midds might continue to regress.....and while I'm a long term buyer of Bogaerts, I don't think he's a slam dunk to excel in 2014.

    ....the defending champs with a 21-year old (super) prospect and a guy demoted to AAA last year as the left side of our infield?  Hmmm.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd much rather go into 2014 with a 21 year old "super" prospect at SS who has already started for a team that won a World Championship along with a 25 year old player with the best right handed power I've seen come up through the system since Jim Rice, before I give Stephen Drew a 4 year deal.  I loved the Drew signing last year and thought he had a solid season, but I'm not going over 2 years & he's getting at least 4.

    Middlebrooks had a bit of a sophomore slump that a wrist injury may have been a factor in and maybe he started reading his own hype after a great rookie year, but I can't believe how many fans want to trade this guy for a bag of balls.  Middlebrooks deserves another look at 3rd and he's going to get it.  

    The Sox Front Office isn't trading him this off season, but if they ever did and he went on to hit 40 home runs for another team next year, the same whiners that wanted him traded will whine about "Ben" trading him. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    I'd much rather go into 2014 with a 21 year old "super" prospect at SS who has already started for a team that won a World Championship along with a 25 year old player with the best right handed power I've seen come up through the system since Jim Rice, before I give Stephen Drew a 4 year deal.  I loved the Drew signing last year and thought he had a solid season, but I'm not going over 2 years & he's getting at least 4.

    Middlebrooks had a bit of a sophomore slump that a wrist injury may have been a factor in and maybe he started reading his own hype after a great rookie year, but I can't believe how many fans want to trade this guy for a bag of balls.  Middlebrooks deserves another look at 3rd and he's going to get it.  

    The Sox Front Office isn't trading him this off season, but if they ever did and he went on to hit 40 home runs for another team next year, the same whiners that wanted him traded will whine about "Ben" trading him. 

    That "great rookie year" included a .331/.368/.592/.960 in 152 plate appearances and 40 games before the trade of Kevin Youkilis and a .240/.276/.416/.692 line in 134 plate appearances and 35 games after the Youkilis trade. The latter line closely resembles Middlebrooks' 2013 line of .254/.271/.425/.696 in 374 plate appearances and 94 games. He is what he is.

    I don't think a team should trade a player at a low trade value so the Red Sox likely will give Middlebrooks another shot at third base (and hope his trade value does not drop further). The Sox won't be trading Middlebrooks for "a bag of balls," but fans should have modest expectations going forward.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to hill55's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    I'd much rather go into 2014 with a 21 year old "super" prospect at SS who has already started for a team that won a World Championship along with a 25 year old player with the best right handed power I've seen come up through the system since Jim Rice, before I give Stephen Drew a 4 year deal.  I loved the Drew signing last year and thought he had a solid season, but I'm not going over 2 years & he's getting at least 4.

    Middlebrooks had a bit of a sophomore slump that a wrist injury may have been a factor in and maybe he started reading his own hype after a great rookie year, but I can't believe how many fans want to trade this guy for a bag of balls.  Middlebrooks deserves another look at 3rd and he's going to get it.  

    The Sox Front Office isn't trading him this off season, but if they ever did and he went on to hit 40 home runs for another team next year, the same whiners that wanted him traded will whine about "Ben" trading him. 

    That "great rookie year" included a .331/.368/.592/.960 in 152 plate appearances and 40 games before the trade of Kevin Youkilis and a .240/.276/.416/.692 line in 134 plate appearances and 35 games after the Youkilis trade. The latter line closely resembles Middlebrooks' 2013 line of .254/.271/.425/.696 in 374 plate appearances and 94 games. He is what he is.

    I don't think a team should trade a player at a low trade value so the Red Sox likely will give Middlebrooks another shot at third base (and hope his trade value does not drop further). The Sox won't be trading Middlebrooks for "a bag of balls," but fans should have modest expectations going forward.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hill, your Middlebrooks obsession went past unhealthy about 200 "Middlebrooks posts" ago.  We get it.  You don't think he will be good, but it's like your hovering over the board like a vulture waiting for someone to say something positive about the kid, so you can swoop in and knock him down a peg.  Stick to "Fangraphs" stats and discrediting trade proposals...Your obsession isn't all that different from Softlaw/Ellsbury in the sense that it kills both of you to hear someone say a positive thing about either player.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    The Yankees remain interested in Stephen Drew even after signing Derek Jeter and Brendan Ryan, according to Jon Heyman at CBS Sports:

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24247289/brendan-ryan-has-deal-with-yankees-will-provide-jeter-insurance

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Boras on Drew

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When Boras sells on OPS, it means there's little else to go on

    That's like saying that when Boras sells on Boggs' average, he has little else to sell.  Which could be true, but would still be meaningless.  Drew was outstanding offensively for a SS this year.  Admit it and move on.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, except for the playoffs.  OPS was used by Boras to sell JD to the Sox as a #5 hitter in the lineup.  That's why I say don't trust Boras when he's talking OPS.

    And as wonderful as Stephen was, how come he regularly batted 8th in the playoffs?  Fact is, he should have been ninth.  

    Let's hire Stephen for a year and let him back up Bogey.  But he should not be the starting SS.

     

Share