Boston Globe's Inside the collapse - Your thoughts?

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from crmn19. Show crmn19's posts

    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...


    Really makes the case for a disciplinarian coach and the attempted movement of several (Lackey is a given) players even at the cost of 2012 as there is no koombaya fix.  You have to be especially disappointed in Lester, sure he's an honorary member of the Texas Mafia, but he goes through the cancer issue which has to be a perspective not many other teammates have, the team supports the hell out of him (or at least appears to) and that's how he handles the fruits of a second chance as it were.  

     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    You're a tool and a useless repetitive azz.
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    If most of these things are true in article, probably best RS clean house and start fresh. New manager a good start, no sure you blame GM for stuff in clubhouse, but Lackey & Lugo signings fall to Theo [still believe CC will be a impact player w/ RS],  some of the things reading now are tough to believe. Nice to know are staff was eating fried chicken, drinking beers, and playing x box when they weren't on the mound instead of being in dugout backing their teammates during games.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    Good story by the Globe -- excellent!
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    As a devoted fan I could feel that something was amiss in the clubhouse so why did it take management so long to react? Get rid of Lackey who is a cancer for the team. Get a manager in there with a backbone. Also let GM go. We need a total restructuring of the entire organization and team. Where do you begin? As a fan I am stunned and sad.
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    LOL...I LOVED this article.....I can just picture these FAT BHASTIDS sitting around the big screen, playing video games, sucking down copious Bud lights, scarfing bucket fulls of greasy Popeye's chicken, wiping their slobby fingers on their home uniforms.....and then I think about the last month and all the moronic pink hatters here, defending this collection of mutant men and swine...just sickening and delusional...."Wake is their best pitcher, you HAVE to re-sign him, he's good for 150 innings., and BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH....." Can all of them, Youk, Ortiz, TEK, Wakey-Wakey, Lackey, that texas fat pig Beckett, heck, even Lester, since he threw in with the bad boys (LOL...what leadership)...then you have a pill-popping manager whose marriage probably became a subject of derision in the dugout...MAN, WHAT A ZOO!

    LMAO...and you just KNEW it was all gonna come out...hate to be those morons in Spring Training....
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    I find it rather disgusting that it was not enough for the Red Sox to fire Tito, but then in this piece their finger prints are all over it, throwing him under the bus and backing over it.  Let me ask a question, when it is all said and done is there going to be anybody off of those 04 and 07 teams that would be willing to come back.  It ridiculous.  Hinting that Tito had a drug problem and ran around on his wife? Lets just say that after this piece in the Globe, provided by Red Sox leadership, why would anybody want to come play, manage or work for the Red Sox, knowing if it goes south, nobody will have your back, and you will be thrown out into the street for the Bus to run you over. Nice.
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    " Team sources"? LOL Don't believe anything you read that doesn't have a person's or persons name attached to it. This is an old trick journalists used when they make fiction up. ;-)
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    Wake up xxx.....reporters don't make all this stuff up...NO ONE NAMED IN THE ARTICLE HAS DENIED ANY OF IT...that should tell you all you need to know....Pink Hatter's should fade away and hang your delusional heads in shame...LMAO
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    I am loathe to believe all that one hears or reads, especially after a time of difficulty, for many negative things can be said, groomed, assumed or postured that may have no basis in fact.

    That being said, this is still a disturbing picture as presented.  For all the support that I call for, there are times when necessary actions need to be taken.  The indolence pictured here has to be addressed or the core of the Red Sox as a team, as we have enjoyed for the last 9 seasons as winners, could be completely shattered.

    This portrayal of the last month depicts the worst kind of selfishness in team sports ... it is the kind of selfishness that we can throw at some players that are obvious attention getters/seakers at the cost of almost everything else.  It turns my stomach.  I am close to saying any number of things that would sound harsh, but since I am not sure what is or isn't fact, I will restrain myself.



       No matter what view one took toward Tito or Theo, there was a certain comfort zone having them around.  This has the feeling of that last part of Manny's stay with us ... to me, it is a harsh ending to a storied time.

     
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    In Response to Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems, Beckett, Lester, and Lackey indifference(drinking beer,eating fried chicken,playing video games in the clubhouse during game):
    [QUOTE]" Team sources"? LOL Don't believe anything you read that doesn't have a person's or persons name attached to it. This is an old trick journalists used when they make fiction up. ;-)
    Posted by xxxcrwn[/QUOTE]

    Just like Fox does right? I heard that it was actually Red Bull, Granola bars, and exercise videos that these guys were indulging in.
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    In Response to Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems, Beckett, Lester, and Lackey indifference(drinking beer,eating fried chicken,playing video games in the clubhouse during game):
    [QUOTE]" Team sources"? LOL Don't believe anything you read that doesn't have a person's or persons name attached to it. This is an old trick journalists used when they make fiction up. ;-)
    Posted by xxxcrwn[/QUOTE]

    So you are saying all of this is made up?  For what ?  For the journalist and the Globe to get a defamation suit against them?  Of course this came from the Red Sox leadership.  The charge that the Red Sox began to play less then enthused baseball after the doubleheader that was "forced" upon them by management and then as a peace offering they were given a night out and headphones. Who could make this stuff up and why would they want to.  Why air the dirty laundry?  It makes no sense.  Get rid of the the players you can, change the culture in the clubhouse, but don't kick Francona on his way out, don't devalue players you are going to try and deal. Its dumb.
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    Wow,  how damaged are these  guys  now ?
    Beckett, Lester and Bucholz    can they remain together--- Will they rededicate themselves..

    Can't see Wake, Tek and papi coming back... not really sure where you try to dump Lackey  but Boston fans were already  down on him.  Now your  3 aces  have their own little club  ..

    Sorry to say this  but it seems as much as they were ready to part company with Tito , owners may now feel same about Theo..

    What a great piece to stir up anger and resentment about how these over paid  "super" stars are so un-Red Sox in their approach and demeanor..

    Keep Pedey,  Scutaro, Elsbury    but  not Youk ?   wow
    Many pieces will be  discarded and dealt  from the all world 2011 Boston Red Sox.
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    I loved the story.  Nasty stuff.  But I'm not so sure cleaning house is the fix if only because these same players were terrific up until September, even with the slow start.  There is a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

    That said, I completely believe the thought that Ellsbury, hands down the best player on the team this year, especially in September when almost everyone else was tanking--especially Ortiz and Youk (injured, but also ineffective).  Youk was the one guy who went public last year an chastised Jake for going to Arizona.  In retrospect, doing that was a great move and in part led to his complete rehab and real improvement in all aspects of his game.  Youk should spend some time in Arizona and maybe avoid being a canker.

    But Ellsbury is a pro who is still looking for that big contract.  He might be the only guy on this team (other than Pedroia) who can be relied upon to be in shape and play well every darn day.  AGon could use some exercise, but will still be very professional every day.  Just not a verbal leader (nor is Ellsbury).  Crawford should be OK.  I'd keep Scutaro at SS until someone from the farm system emerges.  Maybe let Ortiz go or offer him less than he thinks he's worth, and put Youk at DH/3B/1B in combo with Lavarnway at C/DH, with Youk hitting against the righties and Lavarnway against some of the lefties.  Get a righty hitting rightfielder.  I'd dump Tek, but maybe he could be useful for one more year. 

    As for the starters, keep them all and maybe send them their latest press clippings during the offseason. 

    As for the disciplinarian coach/manager idea, it would be good to remember that these guys all played great under Francona until the pitching collapsed, and that began when Buchholz dropped out for the bad back.  Then Bedard missed some starts.  Then Beckett and Lester struggled.  And Lackey remained Lackey, Wakefield Wakefield, etc. 
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    Francona's personal problems is what jumped out  to me in the article.   I saw him on the bench the last two years looking exhausted and spent.  As much as I liked him I think now his going was necessary as well as the greater negative Epstein please go Theo.  The fear is that ownership is not of the skill or character to get the  right people in place to fix what is so obviously wrong with this team. A lot has to be done and without a person in place you have to wonder if they can find him.  None of the names mentioned seem right so what do you commit to. Ownership is as bad as the infected personnel.
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    In Response to Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems, Beckett, Lester, and Lackey indifference(drinking beer,eating fried chicken,playing video games in the clubhouse during game):
    [QUOTE]" Team sources"? LOL Don't believe anything you read that doesn't have a person's or persons name attached to it. This is an old trick journalists used when they make fiction up. ;-)
    Posted by xxxcrwn[/QUOTE]

    I disagree in this instance, the reason I think it's legit is because not one player is coming out and denying any of it.  Pedroia is saying is we need to be more accountable...Francona has't denied it...none of the players is saying this stuff isn't true.  If it was all made up then 2 weeks ago when the "frat party in the clubhouse" story first came out Francona would have said "that's not true"...he didn't.


     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    In Response to Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems, Beckett, Lester, and Lackey indifference(drinking beer,eating fried chicken,playing video games in the clubhouse during game):
    [QUOTE]Start with shipping Lackey out ASAP.
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    I believe that most Red Sox fans would like to see this happen.  It would be  very expensive to make this happen, but in the long run would really improve the team. 
     
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    Re: Boston Globe's Inside the collapse-Your thoughts? Reveals the story behind the collapse from Francona's personal problems...

    you know what? I dont care! Let the manager allegedly have affairs or abuse drugs. Let the players drinbk beer, eat chicken and gain weight. I dont care if they like each other or not. They at one point in the season they were 80-41. Yes, they picked the worst time to slump and get hurt, but they missed the playoffs by 1 game. They won 90 games. A tweak here and there, they are still a 93-98 win team next year.
    Money coming off of the books. Smart people in the organization. Willing to invest in the minors and spend on free agency. Truethfully, would you want it any other way?
    Francona and Theo had a great run. Thank you. Thank you again and again. But kudo's to Sox management for recognizing nothing is forever and change can be good.
    Varitek, Wake, Drew, Darnell, Albers, and 1-3 others. Would represent a 20-30% turnover in the team. Tweaking. Great core still here.
     

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