"Can we all agree now that Reddick for Bailey was a bad trade?"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    "Can we all agree now that Reddick for Bailey was a bad trade?"

    Wasn't this the rallying cry of a certain group of posters last season who were eager to tell everyone that the verdict was in on this trade, the book was closed, and all that was left to do was chant in unison that it was the dumbest move by the dumbest GM in the history of ever?

    Lonely indeed it was for those few of us with the temerity to argue that the trade made sense on paper and that maybe - crazy, I know - we might need to wait more than one season to see how things would shake out.

    It's early, yes...but Bailey is finally healthy and (a couple of hiccups aside) looking like a beast. Reddick, on the other hand, is looking, well, kind of overrated...as many said that he was. And I like Reddick, for what he is; but I'll take the once and future All-Star closer every day, thank you.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re:

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re:

    Never hear these guys even hint at maybe making a mistake.

    The deal is still not over, but the repeated warnings that judging early was folly, they never stopped. They even taunted anyone who said let's wait and see.

    Typical.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re:

    Trades should always be viewed in the context at the time, not what happened after, unless the after was completely predictable.  It was a very good trade for us at the time.  We needed a closer, and Bailey was a 2-time AS, with a 2.07 ERA and a .954 Whip.  And Reddick was going to sit behind Ross anyway.

    Judging things after they happen is an awful way to go through life.

    By the way, where the fans that wanted to re-sign Ross for three years?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re:

    In response to trantor's comment:

    I loved Reddick and I love all players drafted, signed, and nurtured in our minor league system but we just lost Papelbon and needed a top notch reliever. Hated to see Reddick go but thought that it was a wise decision. Too bad that Bailey got injured in a freak accident.



    I liked Reddick as well, and defended him on more than one occasion.  Then the same people that I defended Reddick against, suddenly decided they loved the guy, after he was no longer a RS.

    And I still think he'll return to form, but we still need a closer more than a RF.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re:

    Trades should always be viewed in the context at the time, not what happened after, unless the after was completely predictable.  It was a very good trade for us at the time.  We needed a closer, and Bailey was a 2-time AS, with a 2.07 ERA and a .954 Whip.  And Reddick was going to sit behind Ross anyway.

    Judging things after they happen is an awful way to go through life.

     

    Judging after the fact is the way life goes, Joe.

    Almost everything we do in life is judged by the final product not the effort, motive,  or reasoning at the time.

    I can see if someone gets hurt in a freak accident, it would be hard to judge a GM for not seeing that coming, but years after the trade is made, I think it's totally justifiable to make a judgement. Of course the GM should be viewed not just on the final results, but that's the nauture of the beast.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re:

    Not only did we need a closer, we felt we had a better RF option in Kalish.....then Bailey and Kalish get hurt and Reddick does well in the AL West.....keep in mind however that despite the 32 HR, he has a .305 OBP and a .768 OPS .....never judge a trade on one season.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    Trades should always be viewed in the context at the time, not what happened after, unless the after was completely predictable.  It was a very good trade for us at the time.  We needed a closer, and Bailey was a 2-time AS, with a 2.07 ERA and a .954 Whip.  And Reddick was going to sit behind Ross anyway.

    Judging things after they happen is an awful way to go through life.

    By the way, where the fans that wanted to re-sign Ross for three years?

    Right here , Joe. Still wouldn't mind having him instead of Gomes, especially now that Victorino's back is questionable. Cody would've cost more than $ 5 mil a year though.


    Am somewhat worred about outfeld depth , visions of Gomes starting in left and Nava in right. And no healthy outfielders on 40-man other than JBJr. Is Pedro " The Neck " our emergency outfielder ? Darn that Kalish shoulder ! Perhaps if Aceves is dfa'd we add Brentz or Hazelbaker or even Linares to the roster ?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re:

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to trantor's comment:

     

    I loved Reddick and I love all players drafted, signed, and nurtured in our minor league system but we just lost Papelbon and needed a top notch reliever. Hated to see Reddick go but thought that it was a wise decision. Too bad that Bailey got injured in a freak accident.

     



    I liked Reddick as well, and defended him on more than one occasion.  Then the same people that I defended Reddick against, suddenly decided they loved the guy, after he was no longer a RS.

     

    And I still think he'll return to form, but we still need a closer more than a RF.



    I liked Reddick, but the Sox desperately needed bullpen help (and a starter, a need that went unaddressed for a long time).   The solution of moving Bard to the closer role and Aceves to the rotation was not going to address the missing pitching arms.

     

    If the Sox lost anything in that deal, I was worried Miles Head would haunt the Sox more than Reddick.  Head has not adjusted well to AA, however...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re:

    I honestly thought at the time and continue to think that it was a great trade for both parties. We got a stud pitcher with a decent throw in. They got a right fielder who will hit 260-270ish and knock 25 plus bombs. It really is a trade that should, and has so far worked out for both teams.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re:

    For the record -

     

    - I never said it was the dumbest trade by the dumbest GM.  If someone can find me saying anything close to that - produce the evidence.

    - the sox did need a closer but that was self inflicted because they let their closer walk

    - Kalish was NOT a better option than riddick because Kalish was hurt as was Crawford and both needed surgery before the trade - this is an urban legend that Kalish was healthy when the trade was made.

    - Reddick didn't have an okay year last year - he had an OUTSTANDING year. 

    - Bailey did nothing last year.

    - Bailey has been electric for the last two weeks - happy for him, the Red Sox and my fantasy team.  But he pitched terribly all spring.  Let's see how the year plays out.

    I am glad to take heat as Bailey has pitched well for two weeks - no doubt about it.  Fire away.

    Just don't make stuff up.

     

     

     

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    For the record -

     

    - I never said it was the dumbest trade by the dumbest GM.  If someone can find me saying anything close to that - produce the evidence.

    - the sox did need a closer but that was self inflicted because they let their closer walk

    - Kalish was NOT a better option than riddick because Kalish was hurt as was Crawford and both needed surgery before the trade - this is an urban legend that Kalish was healthy when the trade was made.

    - Reddick didn't have an okay year last year - he had an OUTSTANDING year. 

    - Bailey did nothing last year.

    - Bailey has been electric for the last two weeks - happy for him, the Red Sox and my fantasy team.  But he pitched terribly all spring.  Let's see how the year plays out.

    I am glad to take heat as Bailey has pitched well for two weeks - no doubt about it.  Fire away.

    Just don't make stuff up.

     

     

     

     



    Yes, we all know how important spring training performance is as an indictor of success.  Just check the record on Softlaw and Jackie Bradley, Jr.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    For the record -

     

    - I never said it was the dumbest trade by the dumbest GM.  If someone can find me saying anything close to that - produce the evidence.

    - the sox did need a closer but that was self inflicted because they let their closer walk

    - Kalish was NOT a better option than riddick because Kalish was hurt as was Crawford and both needed surgery before the trade - this is an urban legend that Kalish was healthy when the trade was made.

    - Reddick didn't have an okay year last year - he had an OUTSTANDING year. 

    - Bailey did nothing last year.

    - Bailey has been electric for the last two weeks - happy for him, the Red Sox and my fantasy team.  But he pitched terribly all spring.  Let's see how the year plays out.

    I am glad to take heat as Bailey has pitched well for two weeks - no doubt about it.  Fire away.

    Just don't make stuff up.

     

     

     

     



    Reddick had an OK season, not an outstanding season. Yes, 32 home runs was very good and 34 2B-3B combined was decent. But he still batted just .242, his OBP ws .305, he struck out 151 times, and he batted just .164 in Sept.

    Also, he had just 85 RBIs -- a decent total but not when you consider home runs and he should have had more. He was horrible in clutch sitiuations. He  batted .206 W/RISP and .191 with men on, .000 (0-for-8) with runners on 2nd and 3rd; .071 (1-for-14) with bases loaded; .170 with a man on first; .222 with  man on secnd and .222 with men on 1st and 2nd. The only decent stat with runners on base was .286 with runners on 1-3.

     He should have driven in more than 100 runs because he had more than enough chances. Assuming the Gold Glove was legit, he was better in the field than I remember him being in Boston, but overall -- he was just OK but not outstanding.

    Too many get caught up with the 32 home runs and ignore all the other mediocre or numbers.

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    For the record -

     

    - I never said it was the dumbest trade by the dumbest GM.  If someone can find me saying anything close to that - produce the evidence.

    - the sox did need a closer but that was self inflicted because they let their closer walk

    - Kalish was NOT a better option than riddick because Kalish was hurt as was Crawford and both needed surgery before the trade - this is an urban legend that Kalish was healthy when the trade was made.

    - Reddick didn't have an okay year last year - he had an OUTSTANDING year. 

    - Bailey did nothing last year.

    - Bailey has been electric for the last two weeks - happy for him, the Red Sox and my fantasy team.  But he pitched terribly all spring.  Let's see how the year plays out.

    I am glad to take heat as Bailey has pitched well for two weeks - no doubt about it.  Fire away.

    Just don't make stuff up.

     

     

     

     



    For the record. You freaked out about the trade all year long. You called Bailey a "China Doll" and mocked me for saying his stuff was "nasty" You acted like Reddick was an all star instead of a guy who hits 230 and strikes out all the time.

    Bailey is good.  you get that now?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re:

    When you can trade a guy whos a 4th OF'er on your team for a ROY, 2-time AS closer and a great defense, no-pop LHH, you do it.

    Bailey got hurt last year and all I can remember was people giving his stats upon returning, Like Shump, to justify their disdain for the trade. after being out all year with a thumb injury to his throwing hand, they actually judged him on those one month sample size numbers. Sorry, but thats weaker than weak, especially when guys that know the game do that. Bailey had a superb track record as one one the best closers in the game.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

     

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

    snake, you know i have no ax to grind with AB - i did not advocate for the resigning of Paps so i was OK with the trade given the circumstances....but that doesnt mean the trade has been a good one...it was a huge mistake for the most part....i really wasnt impressed with bailey last night...he was lucky with that blown call and those players swinging at 2 ball fours....

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re:

    In response to georom4's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

     

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

     

     

    snake, you know i have no ax to grind with AB - i did not advocate for the resigning of Paps so i was OK with the trade given the circumstances....but that doesnt mean the trade has been a good one...it was a huge mistake for the most part....i really wasnt impressed with bailey last night...he was lucky with that blown call and those players swinging at 2 ball fours....



    Have you been "impressed" with Reddick's play since making the All Star game last year?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

     

    Last year was amazing. 

    I had this conversation over and over. Schump, Geo, others. over and over would say say what a bad trade it was., when the fact was that Bailey was hurt and Reddick was playing over his head.

    Now bailey has 20 k's in 11 innings and Reddick is hitting 160 and no one says a peep.

    Trades, and careers, are judged over years, not months, and Baileys career thusfar has been 10 times as good as Reddicks.

     



    you guys are nuts, bailey was lucky last nite and he's already blown a save....josh has already won a gold glove and been an all star in one year.....i guess we should get youk back at third while we're at it....i guess patience is only for drewII...

     

     



    I don't like Drew. What does that have to do with anything?

     

    So as you know I like you and all that so I hate to say this but...you are missing the point.

    Check out baseball reference if you need help.. Bailey is an extremely good closer. He was hurt last year.

    It's that simple.

     

     

    snake, you know i have no ax to grind with AB - i did not advocate for the resigning of Paps so i was OK with the trade given the circumstances....but that doesnt mean the trade has been a good one...it was a huge mistake for the most part....i really wasnt impressed with bailey last night...he was lucky with that blown call and those players swinging at 2 ball fours....

     



    Have you been "impressed" with Reddick's play since making the All Star game last year?

     



    What is Reddicks OPS since the all star game?   580 or something?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

    Yes, we all know how important spring training performance is as an indictor of success.  Just check the record on Softlaw and Jackie Bradley, Jr.  




    Spring is part of it - the other indicator is he pitched horribly last year

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re:

    In response to Schumpeters-Ghost's comment:

    In response to Sheriff-Rojas' comment:

     

    Yes, we all know how important spring training performance is as an indictor of success.  Just check the record on Softlaw and Jackie Bradley, Jr.  

     




    Spring is part of it - the other indicator is he pitched horribly last year

     

     



    there is one more indicator you forgot. His entire career.

     

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