Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to LionSean's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    like it or not Buch has the 2nd lowest era on the team. gotta laugh at you pink hats. I'd rather have Buch on the mound than almost any other pitcher.



    Those of us who question clay or not pink hatters.  Those people left when the sox went into decline.  We are serious fans who sees one of our pitchers not stepping up.

    [/QUOTE]


    Im far from a pink hatter, but theres obviously truth and valid arguements in regards to Buch's fragility. I supported him during the season, but like most, I was getting a bit impatient. I would hold off talks of getting rid of him and all that until after 2014. He has a reasonable 7.7M next year and Id like to see how he performs after a full offseason to get straight again. Last year he got 190IP last year. My thoughts, even if hes a little fragile, Ill take 180IP from Buchholz than most pitchers.

    If he cant be relied on next year, I seriously have to think about his 2 13M options for 16' and 17'. Hes already guarenteed 12M for 2015.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to LionSean's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    like it or not Buch has the 2nd lowest era on the team. gotta laugh at you pink hats. I'd rather have Buch on the mound than almost any other pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Those of us who question clay or not pink hatters.  Those people left when the sox went into decline.  We are serious fans who sees one of our pitchers not stepping up.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Im far from a pink hatter, but theres obviously truth and valid arguements in regards to Buch's fragility. I supported him during the season, but like most, I was getting a bit impatient. I would hold off talks of getting rid of him and all that until after 2014. He has a reasonable 7.7M next year and Id like to see how he performs after a full offseason to get straight again. Last year he got 190IP last year. My thoughts, even if hes a little fragile, Ill take 180IP from Buchholz than most pitchers.

    If he cant be relied on next year, I seriously have to think about his 2 13M options for 16' and 17'. Hes already guarenteed 12M for 2015.

    [/QUOTE]

    that's why this winter is the time to deal him

    b/c his contract is still reasonable and if he can turn it around the new team has options to control him

    if you wait, and he's useless, then what do you do?  you don't exercise the options, you can't give him a QO, and you lose him w/o a pick

    that's why I say deal him this winter for something equivilant to a solid draft pick and move on

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to LionSean's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    like it or not Buch has the 2nd lowest era on the team. gotta laugh at you pink hats. I'd rather have Buch on the mound than almost any other pitcher.

     

     



    Those of us who question clay or not pink hatters.  Those people left when the sox went into decline.  We are serious fans who sees one of our pitchers not stepping up.

     

     




    Im far from a pink hatter, but theres obviously truth and valid arguements in regards to Buch's fragility. I supported him during the season, but like most, I was getting a bit impatient. I would hold off talks of getting rid of him and all that until after 2014. He has a reasonable 7.7M next year and Id like to see how he performs after a full offseason to get straight again. Last year he got 190IP last year. My thoughts, even if hes a little fragile, Ill take 180IP from Buchholz than most pitchers.

    If he cant be relied on next year, I seriously have to think about his 2 13M options for 16' and 17'. Hes already guarenteed 12M for 2015.

    [/QUOTE]

    that's why this winter is the time to deal him

    b/c his contract is still reasonable and if he can turn it around the new team has options to control him

    if you wait, and he's useless, then what do you do?  you don't exercise the options, you can't give him a QO, and you lose him w/o a pick

    that's why I say deal him this winter for something equivilant to a solid draft pick and move on

    [/QUOTE]


    After this season you would be selling very low. No, IMHO its NOT a good time to do it. At 7.7M Ill try and build up that value next year. Nobody is going to give you much for a pitcher who had shoulder issues all year AM.

    If he can go 180IP next year (he had 190 in 2012)they can then trade him if they so choose. I doubt he goes this year unless some GM is dumb enough to give up some good talent. Id want more than a "solid draft pick" for Buch. Hes worth more than that when hes right and I doubt very highly the Sox are going to just give him away.

    He should be here in 2014.

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe 5m

    Buchholz said there is not a whole lot of discomfort. Ball just not coming out of his hand like would want.

     Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe

    19m

    Farrell said Buchholz will pitch Game 4 and has the confidence to let it go.

     

    P ete Abraham ‏@ PeteAbe 11m

    "Giving the team a chance to win, that's my goal," Buchholz says. #redsox

     

    Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe

    9m

    "Being on this level, on this stage, it's tough to take yourself out of the game," Buchholz said.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to irish-sox-fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seriously has there ever been a guy more fragile that this? Its the world series and he says "ive got maybe one start left". As much as i find a lot of what Lackey does unpleasant, you damn well know that even when he was awful hed have gone out and pitched in a wheelchair in the playoffs, let alone the WS. 

    Clay is a great talent when he plays. The problem is you can reduce hatever measure you use for him by 50% because he always got somthing wrong with him (genuine or mental). 

    [/QUOTE]

    Fragile indeed. Red Sox 4, Cardinals 2.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy


    Pretty good game for Buch.  He still has the best stuff on the team, which is why he could still be effective despite the slow fastball last night.  However, concerns about his health in the future are not misplaced. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to LionSean's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 67redsox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to LionSean's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    like it or not Buch has the 2nd lowest era on the team. gotta laugh at you pink hats. I'd rather have Buch on the mound than almost any other pitcher.

    [/QUOTE]

    Those of us who question clay or not pink hatters.  Those people left when the sox went into decline.  We are serious fans who sees one of our pitchers not stepping up.

    [/QUOTE]


    He helps his team every time he is on the mound. If he has an injury he has an injury. Maybe it didn't heal right or maybe there are factors we don't know. give the guy a break.

    [/QUOTE]


    We were told that there is no structural damage in his shoulder.  Give the guy a break?  Why doesn't he just show up for work like the rest of his team mates?

    [/QUOTE]

    He did show up last night and gave the Sox four grind it out innings. He may not be injured with a structural injury as much as he is just worn thin from the long season. He missed three months, obviously came back because he wanted to help the team at seasons end when they needed him a gutted it out last night. If he had before the games just bowed out it would be one thing, but give him credit for going out and helping his team to a tough win. 

    Hetch

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    obviously i'm not a Sox fan, but i think CBuch earned a little slack last night, far from standard but IMO a reasonably good job...nice job of mixing pitches and dodging rough spots..

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    obviously i'm not a Sox fan, but i think CBuch earned a little slack last night, far from standard but IMO a reasonably good job...nice job of mixing pitches and dodging rough spots..




    Hey jete.  Gotta agree with you here...gutty performance + not-so-hot St Louis hitting = scoreless start.  I'm kinda shocked they didn't get to Buchholz's "fastball" last night.  Lots of hitters sitting on fb counts.  Mixed it up well; changeup and fastball were at times only about 4-6 mph off, but it worked. 

    Dude gutted it out through 4. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to soups' comment:

    In response to jete02fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    obviously i'm not a Sox fan, but i think CBuch earned a little slack last night, far from standard but IMO a reasonably good job...nice job of mixing pitches and dodging rough spots..

     




    Hey jete.  Gotta agree with you here...gutty performance + not-so-hot St Louis hitting = scoreless start.  I'm kinda shocked they didn't get to Buchholz's "fastball" last night.  Lots of hitters sitting on fb counts.  Mixed it up well; changeup and fastball were at times only about 4-6 mph off, but it worked. 

     

    Dude gutted it out through 4. 

    [/QUOTE] hey soups, don't know if it was purposely, but i thought that after Yadi's double, he smartly began to pitch backwards because the Cards seemed to get agresssive the next inning, his pitch sequence looked to produce guessing from some of the Cards batters

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to soups' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    obviously i'm not a Sox fan, but i think CBuch earned a little slack last night, far from standard but IMO a reasonably good job...nice job of mixing pitches and dodging rough spots..

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey jete.  Gotta agree with you here...gutty performance + not-so-hot St Louis hitting = scoreless start.  I'm kinda shocked they didn't get to Buchholz's "fastball" last night.  Lots of hitters sitting on fb counts.  Mixed it up well; changeup and fastball were at times only about 4-6 mph off, but it worked. 

    Dude gutted it out through 4. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Soup and Jete, 

    Nice to hear from a few folks who agree with my point. Those who are picking on Buch aren't Pink Hats but they do need to cut him some slack. If he could barely reach 90mph on only six pitches last night there if obviously something amiss with Buch right now. I believe it was in the Detroit series Verlander gave the Tiger seven solid innings and he was taken out after saying to Leland he was done. If he had played for the Sox I could hear a few screaming that he was soft. Of course this is stretching the point, but it is relative.

    Hetch 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    I give him credit for showing heart


    I still say deal him this winter


    Question:  Can the Sox DL him now and add a new pitcher to the staff for the last 3 games?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to LagunaJose's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Apparently many folks on forums feel as if they have the right to question the integrity and character of players that they are by definition rooting for as a fan.  Only a fly on the wall would know for sure about the character of a ballplayer. Speculation without facts is utter nonsense and yet so many do it or fall for it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Too many of our beloved players get bum raps based on pure speculation, IMO.  We as fans really have very little clue as to what these players are going through.  It may not look good from where we are sitting, but I can't imagine that there are very many professional athletes who don't want to be in the game helping their teams.  They deserve the benefit of the doubt.

    Anyway, thank you Clay for gutting it out last night and giving this team what it needed.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    Did Clay's performance last night earn any respect or benefit-of-the-doubt from the Day-to-Day Clay/Jippy-Tummy set?

    I thought it was a pretty nails outing.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Did Clay's performance last night earn any respect or benefit-of-the-doubt from the Day-to-Day Clay/Jippy-Tummy set?

    I thought it was a pretty nails outing.

    [/QUOTE]Yes it did,   He gave us a solid 4 innings and kept the boys in the game......  However, Im sure that we will hear just after the series what exactly is wrong !!!


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosoxmal. Show bosoxmal's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to irish-sox-fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seriously has there ever been a guy more fragile that this? Its the world series and he says "ive got maybe one start left". As much as i find a lot of what Lackey does unpleasant, you damn well know that even when he was awful hed have gone out and pitched in a wheelchair in the playoffs, let alone the WS. 

    Clay is a great talent when he plays. The problem is you can reduce hatever measure you use for him by 50% because he always got somthing wrong with him (genuine or mental). 

    [/QUOTE]


    We'll be lucky if he's got another good 4 innings in him this year. Thisguy has a serious medical condition, and I don't think he should even be out there. My guess is he'll be under the knife sometime during (I hope early) in the off-season. No earnes runs for 4 innings throwing under 90mph. He looked like Uehara, but I think that will be about it, for this year.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    Did Clay's performance last night earn any respect or benefit-of-the-doubt from the Day-to-Day Clay/Jippy-Tummy set?

    I thought it was a pretty nails outing.

    Yes it did,   He gave us a solid 4 innings and kept the boys in the game......  However, Im sure that we will hear just after the series what exactly is wrong !!!

    Hi Bill, 

    I don't think there is anything structurally wrong with Buch. Me thinks it's more that he was out of action for three months, came back to try and help the team possibly not being in a good in season shape and he is just plain worn out physically. 

    We look at young pitchers coming up from the minors, see managers protect them by limiting pitch count and total innings per season to make sure they don't get physically worn by seasons end. Felix Doubrant a prime example. Maybe for what ever reason Buch fit into this mold this season.

    We're not in the dugout or the trainers room so we can only speculate but I think based on his gutsy effort last night Buch deserves the benefit of the doubt and fan support, but I doubt we'll see him again in the series.

    With all this being said how did pitchers like Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Bob Gibson and others in thier time pitch in WS competition on three days rest or with a four man rotation for thier entire careers.  Despite better conditioning methods, supposedly players now being better conditioned athletes why are todays pitchers more fragile. 

    Hetch

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to jete02fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to soups' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jete02fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    obviously i'm not a Sox fan, but i think CBuch earned a little slack last night, far from standard but IMO a reasonably good job...nice job of mixing pitches and dodging rough spots..

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Hey jete.  Gotta agree with you here...gutty performance + not-so-hot St Louis hitting = scoreless start.  I'm kinda shocked they didn't get to Buchholz's "fastball" last night.  Lots of hitters sitting on fb counts.  Mixed it up well; changeup and fastball were at times only about 4-6 mph off, but it worked. 

     

    Dude gutted it out through 4. 

    [/QUOTE] hey soups, don't know if it was purposely, but i thought that after Yadi's double, he smartly began to pitch backwards because the Cards seemed to get agrresssive the next inning, his pitch sequence looked to produce guessing from some of the Cards batters

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Good point.  Hadn't thought about that, but you're right about the pitching backwards.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I give him credit for showing heart


    I still say deal him this winter


    Question:  Can the Sox DL him now and add a new pitcher to the staff for the last 3 games?

    [/QUOTE]


    They could try but I doubt the Commissioner's Office would approve.  Plus would be bringing in someone who hasn't pitched in a month.

     

     

     

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to LagunaJose's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I give him credit for showing heart


    I still say deal him this winter


    Question:  Can the Sox DL him now and add a new pitcher to the staff for the last 3 games?

    [/QUOTE]

    Then you were wrong when you said that he wouldn't show any heart. You are apologizing for that statement?

    [/QUOTE]


    I am giving him credit for getting out there; I think he did show some heart.  I'd still trade him as he is incredibly unreliable.  Sorry if you were expecting an apology.  4 IP for an entire World Series?   I don't think so.........

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    I will give him credit if he declares himself ready to pitch an inning or two if there is a game 7.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: Clay Buchholz has a jippy tummy

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Hi Bill, 

    I don't think there is anything structurally wrong with Buch. Me thinks it's more that he was out of action for three months, came back to try and help the team possibly not being in a good in season shape and he is just plain worn out physically. 

    We look at young pitchers coming up from the minors, see managers protect them by limiting pitch count and total innings per season to make sure they don't get physically worn by seasons end. Felix Doubrant a prime example. Maybe for what ever reason Buch fit into this mold this season.

    We're not in the dugout or the trainers room so we can only speculate but I think based on his gutsy effort last night Buch deserves the benefit of the doubt and fan support, but I doubt we'll see him again in the series.

    With all this being said how did pitchers like Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Bob Gibson and others in thier time pitch in WS competition on three days rest or with a four man rotation for thier entire careers.  Despite better conditioning methods, supposedly players now being better conditioned athletes why are todays pitchers more fragile. 

    Hetch

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    First of all, everyone pitched on 3 days rest.  Second, you are talking about Hall of Famers there.  There are guys around today who would probably do just fine on 3 days rest.  There were plenty of guys back then who would have been better off with an extra day. 

    BTW, Koufax really only had 5 great years.  The first 5 years of his career were full of potential but he was not the pitcher he was the last 5 years.  Also remember, Koufax had to retire at age 30 with an arrthritic elbow.  Maybe babying him a little might have prolonged his career.

     

    That being said, back then, the teams did not have millijons of $ tied up in players.  If an average pitcher burned his arm out, they didn't care.  Release him and bring some other mediocre pitcher. 

     

     

     

Share