Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    Tito needs to be decisive in how he is going to manage the lefty overloaded OF and define roles pretty soon. It's early, but any doubt needs to be settled pretty soon. I think Ellsbury, Cameron is a "pro's pro", is a clubhouse problem that has carried over from last year. I think he and his agent are not following management approaches to on the field and off the field issues.

    Long term, both sides could benefit from a divorce. Crawford has obviously replaced Ellsbury's role and the budget on the big paid future OF'er profile, so I think both sides can see the writing on the wall. Now isn't the time, but I'll be surprised if Ellsbury is around past next winter, and will not be suprised if he's gone this summer. Drew's contract ending is a separate issue, which many have mistakenly lumped into OF slots that have to be filled and thus Ellsbury won't be going anywhere next year.

    Cameron should have been written off and traded if the 2011 plan was Ellsbury. Cameron is almost aged out but he's a great clubhouse guy and still a very good defender who can hit LH pitching fair to midland if he plays more. The Red Sox are loaded with young lefty slap hitting OF'ers, something will give before too much longer. If Lowrie could hit strongly against RHP they could convert him into a corner OF'er, though his athletic limitations make that a question mark. 

    The team will score with what's in place, so a panic button isn't required. But in the clubhouse, by the summer, good time to plan out the departure trade framework for Ellsbury. If it doesn't line up this summer, it will be a framework to follow through on this winter. 

    Tito is good at hiding clubhouse problems. But his last comments revealed a clear schism between management approach and Ellsbury/Boras approach.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    In Response to Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so:
    [QUOTE]Tito needs to be decisive in how he is going to manage the lefty overloaded OF and define roles pretty soon. It's early, but any doubt needs to be settled pretty soon. I think Ellsbury, Cameron is a "pro's pro", is a clubhouse problem that has carried over from last year. I think he and his agent are not following management approaches to on the field and off the field issues. Long term, both sides could benefit from a divorce. Crawford has obviously replaced Ellsbury's role and the budget on the big paid future OF'er profile, so I think both sides can see the writing on the wall. Now isn't the time, but I'll be surprised if Ellsbury is around past next winter, and will not be suprised if he's gone this summer. Drew's contract ending is a separate issue, which many have mistakenly lumped into OF slots that have to be filled and thus Ellsbury won't be going anywhere next year. Cameron should have been written off and traded if the 2011 plan was Ellsbury. Cameron is almost aged out but he's a great clubhouse guy and still a very good defender who can hit LH pitching fair to midland if he plays more. The Red Sox are loaded with young lefty slap hitting OF'ers, something will give before too much longer. If Lowrie could hit strongly against RHP they could convert him into a corner OF'er, though his athletic limitations make that a question mark.  The team will score with what's in place, so a panic button isn't required. But in the clubhouse, by the summer, good time to plan out the departure trade framework for Ellsbury. If it doesn't line up this summer, it will be a framework to follow through on this winter.  Tito is good at hiding clubhouse problems. But his last comments revealed a clear schism between management approach and Ellsbury/Boras approach.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from canetime. Show canetime's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    In Response to Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so :
    Posted by canetime[/QUOTE]

    this guy is so good the sox should hire him,if they would listen to him we would never lose another gameTongue out
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    What comments are you talking about?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from -EdithBunker-. Show -EdithBunker-'s posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    WEEI:
    "Gammons expressed concern about the approach of center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Gammons believes that the 27-year-old has become more focused on power than getting on base, which led to his being dropped from the leadoff spot. That, in turn, led to the failed Carl Crawford experiment in the leadoff spot.

    "One of the things that’s killed them is that Jacoby Ellsbury has forgotten what his job is in baseball, which is to get on base and run," said Gammons. "His four home runs, to me, are one of the worst things that’s happened to this team early in the season, because I think it’s encouraged him to get wider and wider with his swing."

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    That doesn't really seem like a comment from Tito..... since Gammon's said it.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

       PLEASE SPARE ME/US  !!!!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    In Response to Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so:
    [QUOTE]Tito needs to be decisive in how he is going to manage the lefty overloaded OF and define roles pretty soon. It's early, but any doubt needs to be settled pretty soon. I think Ellsbury, Cameron is a "pro's pro", is a clubhouse problem that has carried over from last year. I think he and his agent are not following management approaches to on the field and off the field issues. Long term, both sides could benefit from a divorce. Crawford has obviously replaced Ellsbury's role and the budget on the big paid future OF'er profile, so I think both sides can see the writing on the wall. Now isn't the time, but I'll be surprised if Ellsbury is around past next winter, and will not be suprised if he's gone this summer. Drew's contract ending is a separate issue, which many have mistakenly lumped into OF slots that have to be filled and thus Ellsbury won't be going anywhere next year. Cameron should have been written off and traded if the 2011 plan was Ellsbury. Cameron is almost aged out but he's a great clubhouse guy and still a very good defender who can hit LH pitching fair to midland if he plays more. The Red Sox are loaded with young lefty slap hitting OF'ers, something will give before too much longer. If Lowrie could hit strongly against RHP they could convert him into a corner OF'er, though his athletic limitations make that a question mark.  The team will score with what's in place, so a panic button isn't required. But in the clubhouse, by the summer, good time to plan out the departure trade framework for Ellsbury. If it doesn't line up this summer, it will be a framework to follow through on this winter.  Tito is good at hiding clubhouse problems. But his last comments revealed a clear schism between management approach and Ellsbury/Boras approach.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]

    To what 'clubhouse problems' are you referring?  Specifically??

    Sorry!  BUT it's clear you're pulling that out of your @$$!

    IT'S CLEAR both sides want to move on from last year w/ Els.  I think the front office realizes THEY made a mistake in NOT giving Els. the med. tests he CLEARLY NEEDED.  As it was, he was rushed back into the lineup, & RE-injured the EXISTING injured ribs.  Were you not paying attention.  For his part, Els prob. feels badly about not re-joining the team on the road.  It was a BAD situation, which was precipitated by POOR front office decisions to NOT have him properly tested, & sending him out hurt.  YES!  We NEEDED guys to play, but that decision was CLEARLY stupid.

    As for existing problems????  You clearly don't know what you're talking about!

    TAKE A REST GM......  you're out of your league!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    Why do you guys take the bait??
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    Winning more than loosing.... good times ahead.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    In Response to Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so:
    [QUOTE]Tito needs to be decisive in how he is going to manage the lefty overloaded OF and define roles pretty soon. It's early, but any doubt needs to be settled pretty soon. I think Ellsbury, Cameron is a "pro's pro", is a clubhouse problem that has carried over from last year. I think he and his agent are not following management approaches to on the field and off the field issues. Long term, both sides could benefit from a divorce. Crawford has obviously replaced Ellsbury's role and the budget on the big paid future OF'er profile, so I think both sides can see the writing on the wall. Now isn't the time, but I'll be surprised if Ellsbury is around past next winter, and will not be suprised if he's gone this summer. Drew's contract ending is a separate issue, which many have mistakenly lumped into OF slots that have to be filled and thus Ellsbury won't be going anywhere next year. Cameron should have been written off and traded if the 2011 plan was Ellsbury. Cameron is almost aged out but he's a great clubhouse guy and still a very good defender who can hit LH pitching fair to midland if he plays more. The Red Sox are loaded with young lefty slap hitting OF'ers, something will give before too much longer. If Lowrie could hit strongly against RHP they could convert him into a corner OF'er, though his athletic limitations make that a question mark.  The team will score with what's in place, so a panic button isn't required. But in the clubhouse, by the summer, good time to plan out the departure trade framework for Ellsbury. If it doesn't line up this summer, it will be a framework to follow through on this winter.  Tito is good at hiding clubhouse problems. But his last comments revealed a clear schism between management approach and Ellsbury/Boras approach.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]

    Softy ... you hang around the clubhouse a lot, do you?
    And do you like movies about gladiators?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    In Response to Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so:
    [QUOTE]Why do you guys take the bait??
    Posted by andrewmitch[/QUOTE]

    I was thinking the same thing....
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    It's just another spin on him trying to unload Ellsbury before Ellsbury puts OP out to pasture.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

     I think the front office realizes THEY made a mistake in NOT giving Els. the med. tests he CLEARLY NEEDED. 

    No, the front office realizes nothing of the kind. That was a complete bugaboo by Boras. He was given an MRI and his own doctor said it didn't show any issue. Boras claimed they asked for additonal MRI angle images, which is completely absurd because there was nothing that stopped them from doing themselves if they were really concerned about it. The smoking gun was when Ellsbury was gone for most of the season at API on sojourn, at his agent's direction, then returned with a clean bill of health from his own doctor. He then returned and  peformed terribly, rolled on the infield after glancing off of a fielder and then complained that he was hurting again. He then claimed he wanted to go back in but management wouldn't let him and shut him down. Of course, the playoff chances were over and he was complaining about pain.

    Ellsbury publicly indicted management, when he and his agent are the problem. Without a doubt, they took advantage of micro-fractured rib injury that players return in 4 to 6 weeks, if not playing right through it, to act out over being demoted to LF because of poor CF defensive metrics.
     
    The comments from Tito that are critical of his approach are the obvious sign that Ellsbury is a clubhouse problem. He looked like Manny in 2008 in the AB's after Tito's comment. He's pouting, which is all he has been doing since he was demoted to LF and had his first major league serious injury in his career. 

    The moment his numbers get near his career averages ranges, they should sell. I'll be surprised if he lasts past next winter, even if he changes his approach and puts up decent OBP numbers for the kind of skillset he has.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan791. Show redsoxfan791's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    In Response to Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so:
    [QUOTE]WEEI: "Gammons expressed concern about the approach of center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury. Gammons believes that the 27-year-old has become more focused on power than getting on base, which led to his being dropped from the leadoff spot. That, in turn, led to the failed Carl Crawford experiment in the leadoff spot. "One of the things that’s killed them is that Jacoby Ellsbury has forgotten what his job is in baseball, which is to get on base and run," said Gammons. "His four home runs, to me, are one of the worst things that’s happened to this team early in the season, because I think it’s encouraged him to get wider and wider with his swing."
    Posted by -EdithBunker-[/QUOTE]

    As much as I love Gammons (he's one of the writers I most admire), this is his opinion of the situation.  Ellsbury does need to get on base more, but power is not the issue.  In fact, his power seems to be more of a symptom of luck rather than a conscious effort.  His HR/FB ratio is 21.1%, which is a territory typically reserved for big time power hitters.  Based on the data from hit tracker, it looks like most of his home runs are of the "lucky/just enough" variety meaning that under a different context (park, wind pattern, etc) those home runs may not have occurred. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from M1A2. Show M1A2's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    The problems are on the field, not in the clubhouse.

    And here's the funny thing.  For literally years softlaw/BaseballGM was saying that Ellsbury shouldn't be retained because he couldn't hit 20 dingers a year--a defining characteristic, in his view, of a worthwhile centerfielder.  Ellsbury leads the team in dingers with 4 and theoretically could get over 20 this year.

    The problem right now is that the entire outfield contingent--all five of them--aren't hitting.  Before the season, Cameron and McDonald were expected to be solid righty bats whenever the Sox went against a lefty starter, but they haven't been. 

    Ellsbury and Crawford, expected to be everyday players because of their speed on the basepaths, can't get on base.  After 17 games, the Sox have 6 steals and 5 caught stealing--horrendous, easily the worst in MLB. 

    Drew is the best of the lot, but nothing to write home about.  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    i think you would want your outfielder to hit for power if he already has speed - Baseball GM, whom I usually enjoy, is just pulling stuff out of his azz here...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from terrytito. Show terrytito's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    we all know that with TERRY/TITO at the helm there is never any clubhouse problems.
    his main strength as a manager is to keep the clubhouse happy.
    and, of course, talking to the press is his only other strength.

    i wonder if JOHN HENRY might be worried about CARL (THE BUST) CRAWFORD.
    was there a LEMON clause in his contract?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasloco. Show losmediasloco's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    In Response to Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so:
    [QUOTE]Tito needs to be decisive in how he is going to manage the lefty overloaded OF and define roles pretty soon. It's early, but any doubt needs to be settled pretty soon. I think Ellsbury, Cameron is a "pro's pro", is a clubhouse problem that has carried over from last year. I think he and his agent are not following management approaches to on the field and off the field issues. Long term, both sides could benefit from a divorce. Crawford has obviously replaced Ellsbury's role and the budget on the big paid future OF'er profile, so I think both sides can see the writing on the wall. Now isn't the time, but I'll be surprised if Ellsbury is around past next winter, and will not be suprised if he's gone this summer. Drew's contract ending is a separate issue, which many have mistakenly lumped into OF slots that have to be filled and thus Ellsbury won't be going anywhere next year. Cameron should have been written off and traded if the 2011 plan was Ellsbury. Cameron is almost aged out but he's a great clubhouse guy and still a very good defender who can hit LH pitching fair to midland if he plays more. The Red Sox are loaded with young lefty slap hitting OF'ers, something will give before too much longer. If Lowrie could hit strongly against RHP they could convert him into a corner OF'er, though his athletic limitations make that a question mark.  The team will score with what's in place, so a panic button isn't required. But in the clubhouse, by the summer, good time to plan out the departure trade framework for Ellsbury. If it doesn't line up this summer, it will be a framework to follow through on this winter.  Tito is good at hiding clubhouse problems. But his last comments revealed a clear schism between management approach and Ellsbury/Boras approach.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from OscarGamble. Show OscarGamble's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    Too early to make definitive judgments w/ regard to all this. I don't think re-hashing (for the 80th time) Ellsbury's injuries from last season, followed by insisting he's hitting too many HR's in 2011, somehow adds up to being a clubhouse problem. Not saying what's being implied is completely without merit, just overstated. At least at this juncture
    That said, Ellsbury clearly needs to re-focus on taking advanatge of his natural abilities and find more effective ways to get on base and score runs.
    Either way, this scenario pales in comparison to what's going on behind the plate, where Theo's grandiose plan for a long-term answer at Catcher is looking frighteningly bad on several levels.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JYaso. Show JYaso's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    Typical over reaction from a moron that thinks he knows everything about Baseball--- see name "BaseballGM" as someone who thinks he knows everything about everyone but in fact knows nothing about no one.  Keep believing your nonsense!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    I've watched, live, when Ellsbury hit 2 out of 4 of his HRs (the most recent 2). To be honest, I think anyone in MLB should've hit those 2 pitches for HRs. But he put a nice swing on both of them and made them pay. In essence, he did what he was supposed to do. I can't fault Ellsbury for doing that. I'm one of the people on here that wants him to bunt more... a lot more. That said, I think showing a little power would help his ABs so he doesn't seem too one-dimensional, or too predictable at the plate.  Seriously, some of the posters on here can't seem to distinguish between the good things and the bad things anymore. It's a HOMERUN people! Pop a Beer. Shut the f*ck up.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    In Response to Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so:
    [QUOTE] I think the front office realizes THEY made a mistake in NOT giving Els. the med. tests he CLEARLY NEEDED.   No, the front office realizes nothing of the kind. That was a complete bugaboo by Boras. He was given an MRI and his own doctor said it didn't show any issue. Boras claimed they asked for additonal MRI angle images, which is completely absurd because there was nothing that stopped them from doing themselves if they were really concerned about it. The smoking gun was when Ellsbury was gone for most of the season at API on sojourn, at his agent's direction, then returned with a clean bill of health from his own doctor. He then returned and  peformed terribly, rolled on the infield after glancing off of a fielder and then complained that he was hurting again. He then claimed he wanted to go back in but management wouldn't let him and shut him down. Of course, the playoff chances were over and he was complaining about pain. Ellsbury publicly indicted management, when he and his agent are the problem. Without a doubt, they took advantage of micro-fractured rib injury that players return in 4 to 6 weeks, if not playing right through it, to act out over being demoted to LF because of poor CF defensive metrics.   The comments from Tito that are critical of his approach are the obvious sign that Ellsbury is a clubhouse problem. He looked like Manny in 2008 in the AB's after Tito's comment. He's pouting, which is all he has been doing since he was demoted to LF and had his first major league serious injury in his career.  The moment his numbers get near his career averages ranges, they should sell. I'll be surprised if he lasts past next winter, even if he changes his approach and puts up decent OBP numbers for the kind of skillset he has.
    Posted by BaseballGM[/QUOTE]

    ladies and gentleman.... Softlaw!

    hahahahaha

    what a coward

    Those who say 'why take the bait' are 100% right

    This lying clown hated by almost everyone here is worth nobody's time in engaging conversation... the banned one just needs to be mocked and called a liar and a coward and then move on
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from niz-58. Show niz-58's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so


    "Tito is good at hiding clubhouse problems. But his last comments revealed a clear schism between management approach and Ellsbury/Boras approach. "

    Sorry, the voices you hear in your head at 3:00 am don't qualify as a reliable source.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from justbaseball. Show justbaseball's posts

    Re: Clubhouse Problems with Ellsbury and the OF? I think so

    How do these silly rumors get started anyways?
     

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