Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In Response to Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box:
    [QUOTE]This from MLB.com: "The Orioles announced plans on Wednesday night to select the contract of Manny Machado, the No. 3 prospect in baseball , according to MLB.com, from Double-A Bowie prior to Thursday's game, a move that bolsters Baltimore's infield and supports the organization's stance that it is committed to winning in 2012." This is what I was talking about with Bogaerts. This type of call up used to be fairly common in the old days, before GMs worried about damaged psyches. It could shake things up, on a moribund team. In the O's case, they're looking at making a serious Wild Card run.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    The O's brought up a rookie 3B.

    Why didn't the Red Sox think of something like that?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box:
    [QUOTE]Pardon the interruption on the topic going off in space.The kid was switched to 3rd base, from his usual SS. He went2-4 in his debut.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]I'll tell you one thing you and I seem to agree about. Dan Duquette.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box : The O's brought up a rookie 3B. Why didn't the Red Sox think of something like that?
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]I'd kind of like to see a rookie cehnter fielder.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    Carnie, why not? This team is going nowhere.
    Bring up Bradley and Bogaerts for the rest of the season.
    It can't hurt.
    And Joe, the kid the Os brought up is 20 yars old.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box:
    [QUOTE]Carnie, why not? This team is going nowhere. Bring up Bradley and Bogaerts for the rest of the season. It can't hurt. And Joe, the kid the Os brought up is 20 yars old.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]

    I'm not an ageist.

    And FWIW, we're playing a whole bunch of young guys/prospects-Lavarnway, Ciriaco, WMB, Kalish, Nava, Doubront, Mortensen, Tazawa.  That's 8 guys out of 25 that have less than one full season on their resume.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box:
    [QUOTE]Carnie, why not? This team is going nowhere. Bring up Bradley and Bogaerts for the rest of the season. It can't hurt. And Joe, the kid the Os brought up is 20 yars old.
    Posted by rightymclefty[/QUOTE]I think I've said before I'd like to see an outfield of Crawford, Bradley and Bogaerts.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box : I think I've said before I'd like to see an outfield of Crawford, Bradley and Bogaerts.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    How about ...

    LF Linares/Nava (AAA)
    CF Bradley/Pods
    RF Brentz/Sweeney
     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box:
    [QUOTE]People forget, he built a heck of a team in Montreal too. Mostly through the Draft. In fact I was reading years ago that they had one of the Strongest Farms in Baseball at that point. Then Duquette left for Boston, and team was never the same.
    Posted by bobbysu[/QUOTE]

    He had a harder time with the draft in Boston, but did well to get HanRam as an international prospect.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    Remember harness said the O's would compete last year. Looks like he was just a year off.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rightymclefty. Show rightymclefty's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    An update: Machado hit TWO HRs and knocked in four runs in his second game.
    Nice!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box:
    [QUOTE]Theo was a dimwit. Boy wonder. He was a total failure as a GM and vastly overrated. I was wrong to ever defend him.
    Posted by 6k42lt913c[/QUOTE]

    You were right to defend him. You were wrong to change your evaluation criteria, which is what you did. While he certainly was overrated, Epstein was a good, not great, GM.

    When Epstein came on board, we hadn’t won a World Series since WWI. Then 2004 came, and shortly after that, 2007. Now, suddenly fans who read and believed the title “Now I Can Die In Peace” find themselves unable to go 5 years without a title, and believe a drought this long requires heads to roll. Remember when you only wanted one Red Sox World Series before you died? Just one? I didn’t think so.  Guess who you can partially thank for allowing you to forget that.

    Epstein was never the best GM in the game, but he certainly was innovative. He rebuilt the farm largely by capitalizing on rules other GMs always seemed to somehow miss, particularly the compensations picks. He also did things other GMs always had the ability to do, but somehow simply never did, such as claiming a player who was placed on waivers to permit a sale to a Japanese team.

    Duquette had some strong qualities, too. He practically pioneered scouting in Asia, albeit with limited results. (And he has certainly gone back to this tactic in Baltimore.) He also was a master of finding reclaimation pitchers, and somewhat of a fore-runner in noticing the value of OBP. On the other hand, he was brought in to restore the farm system in the manner he did in Montreal, and instead he all but destroyed it through a process of losing high draft picks to compensation, and drafting poorly even by MLB standards. He made some great trades, and very smart extensions. Does anyone remember a pre-arbitration extension signing that extended through early free agency before Pedro? Nowadays, everyone locks up their young stars that way.

    Duquette really didn’t do much better in free agency than Epstein, although Manny certainly worked out (max points awarded). His contracts were smaller in terms of years and dollars, but that is more a matter of scale than prudent GM work. Offerman looks like an innocuous signing at $26mill over 4 years today. That’s Juan Uribe money in 2012. But given that same deal in 2007 when compared to league-average salaries would have been very close to the same deal as JD Drew. Offerman’s $6.5mill AAV was about 4 times the league average $1.6mill. Drew’s $14mill AAV was 4.8 times the league average of $2.9mill. Clearly, not identical, but they are clearly more comparable than simply looking at $26mill and $70mill. In 2007 MLB dollars, Offerman was paid $11.7mill per year. Compared to league averages, Offerman’s contract was more expensive than Varitek, Clement, Renteria, Foulke, and Lugo.

    DD had some really weird trades, too. Everyone remembers Pedro for Pavano / Armas or Slocumb for Varitek and Lowe. (Classics – both.) But remember when Mike Lansing was a contractual albatross at $7mill? No one ever mentions taking on Mike Lansing’s cumbersome contract just to get Rolando Arrojo. Heck, barely anyone even remembers Rolando Arrojo.

    Both got way too involved in free agency. By the time Epstein was GM, contracts had grown exponentially, so contracts looked far worse. When Duquette was GM, $100mill payrolls were rare, typically just Boston and the Yankees. During Epstein’s tenure, about half the league would reach that plateau. The highest paid player in 1994 when Duquette took over as GM was Bobby Bonilla at $6.6mill. Perspective? When Epstein started as GM, A-Rod and Manny had both already eclipsed the $20mill barrier.

    Certainly the farm system was better under Epstein. Early in the DD years, the team’s top ranked prospects were guys name Lomasney and Stenson. (Who?) Remember when Tony Blanco was the next big thing? (Again, who?) DD did sign Hanley and draft Nomar, so he was not a total zero with the farm, but he was closer than many realize. But remember, this was why he was hired.

    Both were bad with money and free agent contracts. Epstein made enough bad moves, but he also did the near impossible task of winning two championships while also rebuilding the farm system. Duquette, on the other hand, won no championships while destroying the farm system. Neither was the best GM in baseball, but I prefer the track record of Epstein over DD for this simple reason. ..

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pri360. Show pri360's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In response to "Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box : You were right to defend him. You were wrong to change your evaluation criteria, which is what you did. While he certainly was overrated, Epstein was a good, not great, GM. When Epstein came on board, we hadn’t won a World Series since WWI. Then 2004 came, and shortly after that, 2007. Now, suddenly fans who read and believed the title “Now I Can Die In Peace” find themselves unable to go 5 years without a title, and believe a drought this long requires heads to roll. Remember when you only wanted one Red Sox World Series before you died? Just one? I didn’t think so.  Guess who you can partially thank for allowing you to forget that. Epstein was never the best GM in the game, but he certainly was innovative. He rebuilt the farm largely by capitalizing on rules other GMs always seemed to somehow miss, particularly the compensations picks. He also did things other GMs always had the ability to do, but somehow simply never did, such as claiming a player who was placed on waivers to permit a sale to a Japanese team. Duquette had some strong qualities, too. He practically pioneered scouting in Asia, albeit with limited results. (And he has certainly gone back to this tactic in Baltimore.) He also was a master of finding reclaimation pitchers, and somewhat of a fore-runner in noticing the value of OBP. On the other hand, he was brought in to restore the farm system in the manner he did in Montreal, and instead he all but destroyed it through a process of losing high draft picks to compensation, and drafting poorly even by MLB standards. He made some great trades, and very smart extensions. Does anyone remember a pre-arbitration extension signing that extended through early free agency before Pedro? Nowadays, everyone locks up their young stars that way. Duquette really didn’t do much better in free agency than Epstein, although Manny certainly worked out (max points awarded). His contracts were smaller in terms of years and dollars, but that is more a matter of scale than prudent GM work. Offerman looks like an innocuous signing at $26mill over 4 years today. That’s Juan Uribe money in 2012. But given that same deal in 2007 when compared to league-average salaries would have been very close to the same deal as JD Drew. Offerman’s $6.5mill AAV was about 4 times the league average $1.6mill. Drew’s $14mill AAV was 4.8 times the league average of $2.9mill. Clearly, not identical, but they are clearly more comparable than simply looking at $26mill and $70mill. In 2007 MLB dollars, Offerman was paid $11.7mill per year. Compared to league averages, Offerman’s contract was more expensive than Varitek, Clement, Renteria, Foulke, and Lugo. DD had some really weird trades, too. Everyone remembers Pedro for Pavano / Armas or Slocumb for Varitek and Lowe. (Classics – both.) But remember when Mike Lansing was a contractual albatross at $7mill? No one ever mentions taking on Mike Lansing’s cumbersome contract just to get Rolando Arrojo. Heck, barely anyone even remembers Rolando Arrojo. Both got way too involved in free agency. By the time Epstein was GM, contracts had grown exponentially, so contracts looked far worse. When Duquette was GM, $100mill payrolls were rare, typically just Boston and the Yankees. During Epstein’s tenure, about half the league would reach that plateau. The highest paid player in 1994 when Duquette took over as GM was Bobby Bonilla at $6.6mill. Perspective? When Epstein started as GM, A-Rod and Manny had both already eclipsed the $20mill barrier. Certainly the farm system was better under Epstein. Early in the DD years, the team’s top ranked prospects were guys name Lomasney and Stenson. (Who?) Remember when Tony Blanco was the next big thing? (Again, who?) DD did sign Hanley and draft Nomar, so he was not a total zero with the farm, but he was closer than many realize. But remember, this was why he was hired. Both were bad with money and free agent contracts. Epstein made enough bad moves, but he also did the near impossible task of winning two championships while also rebuilding the farm system. Duquette, on the other hand, won no championships while destroying the farm system. Neither was the best GM in baseball, but I prefer the track record of Epstein over DD for this simple reason. .. Posted by notin[/QUOTE] very well laid out analysis
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box

    In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dan Duquette, Thinking Outside the Box : You were right to defend him. You were wrong to change your evaluation criteria, which is what you did. While he certainly was overrated, Epstein was a good, not great, GM. When Epstein came on board, we hadn’t won a World Series since WWI. Then 2004 came, and shortly after that, 2007. Now, suddenly fans who read and believed the title “Now I Can Die In Peace” find themselves unable to go 5 years without a title, and believe a drought this long requires heads to roll. Remember when you only wanted one Red Sox World Series before you died? Just one? I didn’t think so.  Guess who you can partially thank for allowing you to forget that. Epstein was never the best GM in the game, but he certainly was innovative. He rebuilt the farm largely by capitalizing on rules other GMs always seemed to somehow miss, particularly the compensations picks. He also did things other GMs always had the ability to do, but somehow simply never did, such as claiming a player who was placed on waivers to permit a sale to a Japanese team. Duquette had some strong qualities, too. He practically pioneered scouting in Asia, albeit with limited results. (And he has certainly gone back to this tactic in Baltimore.) He also was a master of finding reclaimation pitchers, and somewhat of a fore-runner in noticing the value of OBP. On the other hand, he was brought in to restore the farm system in the manner he did in Montreal, and instead he all but destroyed it through a process of losing high draft picks to compensation, and drafting poorly even by MLB standards. He made some great trades, and very smart extensions. Does anyone remember a pre-arbitration extension signing that extended through early free agency before Pedro? Nowadays, everyone locks up their young stars that way. Duquette really didn’t do much better in free agency than Epstein, although Manny certainly worked out (max points awarded). His contracts were smaller in terms of years and dollars, but that is more a matter of scale than prudent GM work. Offerman looks like an innocuous signing at $26mill over 4 years today. That’s Juan Uribe money in 2012. But given that same deal in 2007 when compared to league-average salaries would have been very close to the same deal as JD Drew. Offerman’s $6.5mill AAV was about 4 times the league average $1.6mill. Drew’s $14mill AAV was 4.8 times the league average of $2.9mill. Clearly, not identical, but they are clearly more comparable than simply looking at $26mill and $70mill. In 2007 MLB dollars, Offerman was paid $11.7mill per year. Compared to league averages, Offerman’s contract was more expensive than Varitek, Clement, Renteria, Foulke, and Lugo. DD had some really weird trades, too. Everyone remembers Pedro for Pavano / Armas or Slocumb for Varitek and Lowe. (Classics – both.) But remember when Mike Lansing was a contractual albatross at $7mill? No one ever mentions taking on Mike Lansing’s cumbersome contract just to get Rolando Arrojo. Heck, barely anyone even remembers Rolando Arrojo. Both got way too involved in free agency. By the time Epstein was GM, contracts had grown exponentially, so contracts looked far worse. When Duquette was GM, $100mill payrolls were rare, typically just Boston and the Yankees. During Epstein’s tenure, about half the league would reach that plateau. The highest paid player in 1994 when Duquette took over as GM was Bobby Bonilla at $6.6mill. Perspective? When Epstein started as GM, A-Rod and Manny had both already eclipsed the $20mill barrier. Certainly the farm system was better under Epstein. Early in the DD years, the team’s top ranked prospects were guys name Lomasney and Stenson. (Who?) Remember when Tony Blanco was the next big thing? (Again, who?) DD did sign Hanley and draft Nomar, so he was not a total zero with the farm, but he was closer than many realize. But remember, this was why he was hired. Both were bad with money and free agent contracts. Epstein made enough bad moves, but he also did the near impossible task of winning two championships while also rebuilding the farm system. Duquette, on the other hand, won no championships while destroying the farm system. Neither was the best GM in baseball, but I prefer the track record of Epstein over DD for this simple reason. ..
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Great post notin, and although many of DD's prospects never panned out, many of them were used by Theo in trades to get key pieces for our rings.

    HanRam & Anibal Sanchez for Beckett & Lowell
    Freddie Sanchez for Brandon Lyons, Jeff Suppan and A. Martinez
    Casey Fossum, Brandon Lyons, & Jorge de la Rosa for Schilling
    Hillenbrand for Kim
    Dumatrait for Scott Williamson
    Craig Hansen & Brandon Moss as part of the Manny for J-Bay deal.
    and a few more I can't recall.

    He drafted Youk and Shoppach his last year here.

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     

Share