Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    karma > logic.

    everytime.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    karma > logic.

    everytime.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't believe Karma and logic go hand in hand.  Logic is the result of rationale thought, Karma is a term we create to believe in some magical pipe dream that good things will happen to good people and bad people will get theres eventually when in reality your outcome is a byproduct of the decisions you make. 

    A lineup shouldn't be created based off of feelings, it should be based off of what should produce you the most runs. 

    A manager puts a guy in the front of the lineup who has good on base skills, not a guy who he has a lucky feeling about.  He puts guys in the heart of the order that good hitters and power threats so they can drive those guys when they get on base...not because he thinks it might be there night.  That's why David Ortiz bats 4th every night, and a guy like David Ross will always bat at the bottom of the lineup. 

    Logic > non logic.

    Everytime.

    Tongue Out

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    This whole thing reminds me of the commercials that run during games regarding odd things people do in the belief that they bring good luck.  "It's not crazy if it works".

    Of course the corrollary to that is that when it DOESN'T work it IS crazy. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    karma > logic.

    everytime.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't believe Karma and logic go hand in hand.  Logic is the result of rationale thought, Karma is a term we create to believe in some magical pipe dream that good things will happen to good people and bad people will get theres eventually when in reality your outcome is a byproduct of the decisions you make. 

    A lineup shouldn't be created based off of feelings, it should be based off of what should produce you the most runs. 

    A manager puts a guy in the front of the lineup who has good on base skills, not a guy who he has a lucky feeling about.  He puts guys in the heart of the order that good hitters and power threats so they can drive those guys when they get on base...not because he thinks it might be there night.  That's why David Ortiz bats 4th every night, and a guy like David Ross will always bat at the bottom of the lineup. 

    Logic > non logic.

    Everytime.

    Tongue Out

    [/QUOTE]


    i hear you hugh.  at this point the only reason jonny-thugs is starting every game vs RH pitching is because:  karma/superstition/dontmesswithit.  not logic.

    shoot, i cant even watch these games in my home theater room because the 2 times i did during the LCS the sox lost. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    karma > logic.

    everytime.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't believe Karma and logic go hand in hand.  Logic is the result of rationale thought, Karma is a term we create to believe in some magical pipe dream that good things will happen to good people and bad people will get theres eventually when in reality your outcome is a byproduct of the decisions you make. 

    A lineup shouldn't be created based off of feelings, it should be based off of what should produce you the most runs. 

    A manager puts a guy in the front of the lineup who has good on base skills, not a guy who he has a lucky feeling about.  He puts guys in the heart of the order that good hitters and power threats so they can drive those guys when they get on base...not because he thinks it might be there night.  That's why David Ortiz bats 4th every night, and a guy like David Ross will always bat at the bottom of the lineup. 

    Logic > non logic.

    Everytime.

    Tongue Out

    [/QUOTE]


    i hear you hugh.  at this point the only reason jonny-thugs is starting every game vs RH pitching is because:  karma/superstition/dontmesswithit.  not logic.

    shoot, i cant even watch these games in my home theater room because the 2 times i did during the LCS the sox lost. 

    [/QUOTE]

    It's hard to not be a Red Sox fan and not be superstitious, it was built into our blood.  When I was a kid I had this belief that if the game was really close in the late innings the Sox would lose so I would turn the radio off, cry myself to sleep and go read the paper the next day.

    It's taken some hard work but I've beat that superstition out of me (2004 helped).  As a result I've witnessed some great baseball moments in my life

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    It seems that Farrell has put himself in the position that he can only put Nava in for Gomes if we lose a game.

    It's a weird situation, that's for sure. 

    But I guess it wouldn't be the Red Sox if there wasn't something weird going on...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazyworldoftroybrown. Show crazyworldoftroybrown's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Never heard Nava complaining. Saw only 1 clip, all he said was I dont care just as long as were winning.
    Dont lose direction of what the goal is. Nava didn't.
    Good guy to have on Bench or on the Field.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    moon - There's no reason to change. The Red Sox won 8-1 and Gomes contributed heavily in that victory with his 0-4 night. Nava can't hit anyway, as he pinch hit in the 8th, doubled and scored. His at bat and run was meaningless because the game was in hand at 7-0. Johnny Gomes was there in the key part of the game when the Red Sox took a 7-0 lead.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty much sums up the wrong position very well.

    [/QUOTE]

    My point exactly.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    moon - There's no reason to change. The Red Sox won 8-1 and Gomes contributed heavily in that victory with his 0-4 night. Nava can't hit anyway, as he pinch hit in the 8th, doubled and scored. His at bat and run was meaningless because the game was in hand at 7-0. Johnny Gomes was there in the key part of the game when the Red Sox took a 7-0 lead.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty much sums up the wrong position very well.

    [/QUOTE]

    My point exactly.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, I got the sarcasm.

    You are 100% correct here.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    People believing that karma trumps logic is the reason that gambling casinos make millions. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Gomes is a great guy...a good clubhouse guy and a player who can contribute to the team as a role player. He is NOT the threat Daniel Nava is at the plate and he is not some sort of defensive wizard. Nava deserves to be playing because he is a better player. Its absurd for a .300+ hitter to be riding the pine in favor of a guy who hit what-.220?. This is a mistake.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ADG's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Nava:

    1) The ALCS sample size for Nava is just 7 PAs. He has a .333 BA and 429 OBP (.762 OPS)

    2) Nava had an OBP of .411 this season vs RHPs in a decent sample size.

    3) Nava has a career .390 OBP vs righties and an .833 OPS.

     

    Gomes:

    1) Gomes had 16 PAs in the ALCS, despite every starter being a righty. He has a .188 BA and a .188 OBP (.438 OPS)

    2) Against lefties in 2013, Jonny batted .258 with an OBP of .341 (.745 OPS).

    3) Gomes has a career .225 BA and .310 OBP vs RHPs with an OPS of .733.

     

    Neither is a great fielder.

    I get the energy Gomes brings to the clubhouse and dugout, but just because Nava is not all fired up 24/7, does not mean he isn't the better choice to help our team win. I'm not putting down Farrell. We have won all 6 games the Gomes started, but there certainly is a good case (on paper) for backing Nava as the starter vs righties. There certainly should be a feeling that Nava is being snubbed through no fault of his own.

    ADG's point that Gomes coming off the bench to face a lefty holds a lot of weight. He has been a fantastic PH'er this year, so starting Nava vs RH'd starters and using Gomes vs a lefty reliever seems to give us the best of both worlds.

    (FYI: Gomes has a 1.405 OPS as a PH'er this year with 4 HRs in 21 ABs.)

     

     

     




    Thank you moon. Everyone is saying they won anyway, yes that's true. But who's to say if Nava plays the Red Sox don't score more runs and maybe they would have won in 5. It just makes logical sense. If Gomes was hitting, okay, but he hasn't provided anything.

     

    With a righty starter, start the lefty who has produced. Nava got you there. Give him some AB's. It's unfair to him.




    Good posts, Moon and ADG.

    I hate to sound like I'm complaining about anything when we're winning (must be the "positive clown" in me, or perhaps the "bootlicker"), but I don't buy the argument that Gomes must start every day because magic winning powers or something. It stinks to have a guy who has done what Nava has this year on your bench and not be making the best possible use of him.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think a lot of great baseball minds and managers would start Nava over Gomes vs. RHP and we are just wondering why.

    So why do you think he makes that decision????

    I know why.

    He likes the "energy and enthusiasm" Gomes brings to the table. He thinks that outweighs the .160 lower OPS the last 3 years vs righties.

    I love Farrell as our manager.

    I can still disagree with him on one call.

    [/QUOTE]

    moon - We agree 100% on this. You also hugh. 

    The arguments for Gomes are "we won all 6 games with him". Maybe the Red Sox would have won the Nava-played games also...maybe the Sox would have scored more runs because Nava hits much better against righties...maybe Gomes could have been used as a pinch hitter for let's say Drew late in the game and maybe the Sox would have produced more.

    Even if the Red Sox win the series, I can still disagree with Gomes starting.

    I can bet you that if the Sox lose and Gomes doesn't produce against all of the righties that the Cardinals have, a lot of the posters in this thread will be ripping Farrell for not playing Nava.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey we do agree! Kinda feels good to agree with someone you often bump heads with.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    People believing that karma trumps logic is the reason that gambling casinos make millions. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Good one!

    And just because that guy pulled the lever on that slot machine and won $10 million, that proves we should all spend our money on the slots!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Hey we do agree! Kinda feels good to agree with someone you often bump heads with.

    Am I supposed to  say something about broken clocks and blind squirrells here, or what?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production


    I feel Nava is getting a total screw.

    Hell, isn't his average RIGHT handed higher than Gomes?

    Besides, every play Gomes makes in left field is an adventure.  Caught? yes, but not as difficult as he makes it look.

    I'm happy we're winning, but I do think Nava, for whatever bizarre reason, is getting the shaft.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ampoule's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I feel Nava is getting a total screw.

    Hell, isn't his average RIGHT handed higher than Gomes?

    Besides, every play Gomes makes in left field is an adventure.  Caught? yes, but not as difficult as he makes it look.

    I'm happy we're winning, but I do think Nava, for whatever bizarre reason, is getting the shaft.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nava is one of the best offensive players vs RHPs in MLB.

    He's not a great fielder, but he improved a lot since his first year in Boston. He's certainly better than Gomes in LF.

    John has all but said he will play in the spacious StL outfield.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ampoule's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I feel Nava is getting a total screw.

    Hell, isn't his average RIGHT handed higher than Gomes?

    Besides, every play Gomes makes in left field is an adventure.  Caught? yes, but not as difficult as he makes it look.

    I'm happy we're winning, but I do think Nava, for whatever bizarre reason, is getting the shaft.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nava is one of the best offensive players vs RHPs in MLB.

    He's not a great fielder, but he improved a lot since his first year in Boston. He's certainly better than Gomes in LF.

    John has all but said he will play in the spacious StL outfield.

    [/QUOTE]


    Nava play in Stl?  If so,  it's about time.

    Gomes is a premier pinch-hitter and hitter against LHP.  It's where he should be.  He almost just screwed one up last inning...lucky it stayed a single.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    You guys all still agree with the good luck charm Gomes playing instead of Nava? He's done nothing. Hopefully we will see the end of Gomes as a starter. 

    Only moon, cthugh and myself thought that Nave should be playing. Let's see you politicians switch sides now or do you want to keep playing the voodoo doll Gomes?

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I might put Middlebrooks back in for one game, put Xander at short, and Nava in left.... Game Three that is

    [/QUOTE]

    Bingo. Drew's fielding has been great, but 4 for 42? Really? His swing looks like it's in slow motion.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You guys all still agree with the good luck charm Gomes playing instead of Nava? He's done nothing. Hopefully we will see the end of Gomes as a starter. 

    Only moon, cthugh and myself thought that Nave should be playing. Let's see you politicians switch sides now or do you want to keep playing the voodoo doll Gomes?

    [/QUOTE]

    Read the thread again, way more than 3 people wanted Nava to play.

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Bingo. Drew's fielding has been great, but 4 for 42? Really? His swing looks like it's in slow motion.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think you have to stick with Drew.  He had another great game in the field last night.  He looked a little better at the plate too, had a hit taken away on the ball he hit up the middle.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Daniel Nava Is Getting a Raw Deal because the Red Sox are Winning in Spite of HIs Lack of Production

    Here's Nava's chance to show he belongs!

     

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