De La Rosa and Webster

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: De La Rosa and Webster

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    Of course there was some risk given the TJ surgery, but I couldn't understand why more people weren't more excited about the acquisition of de La Rosa.  This kid was the #1 Can't Miss pitching prospect in a system full of can't miss prospects, until an early up and down call-up (in unfamiliar middle-relief territory) and a shredded elbow detoured his ascent.  



    Well, I did call the deal "possibly the Sox best deal of my lifetime."

    I was alive for the Pedro, Schilling and VTek/Lowe deals, so I'd say I was pretty excited. (To be fair, I did say, I thought it was a good trade even without any prospects in return.)

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: De La Rosa and Webster

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    Of course there was some risk given the TJ surgery, but I couldn't understand why more people weren't more excited about the acquisition of de La Rosa.  This kid was the #1 Can't Miss pitching prospect in a system full of can't miss prospects, until an early up and down call-up (in unfamiliar middle-relief territory) and a shredded elbow detoured his ascent.  

     



    Well, I did call the deal "possibly the Sox best deal of my lifetime."

     

    I was alive for the Pedro, Schilling and VTek/Lowe deals, so I'd say I was pretty excited. (To be fair, I did say, I thought it was a good trade even without any prospects in return.)



    I wasn't calling you out on that Moon.  And, I also thought it a good trade soley based on the salary dump ... but, help me out here moon:  Do you think getting De La Rosa and Webster had any potential effect on 2014 and beyond?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: De La Rosa and Webster

    Well, I did call the deal "possibly the Sox best deal of my lifetime."

     

    I was alive for the Pedro, Schilling and VTek/Lowe deals, so I'd say I was pretty excited. (To be fair, I did say, I thought it was a good trade even without any prospects in return.)

     



    I wasn't calling you out on that Moon.  And, I also thought it a good trade soley based on the salary dump ... but, help me out here moon:  Do you think getting De La Rosa and Webster had any potential effect on 2014 and beyond?

    Yes, I did. I thought both of these guys wers much closer to the bigs than Barnes, and maybe with the same or more upside. Our pitching prospects were not very highly rated before the deal. Ranaudo slipped some.

    What I read about DLR and Webster really got me excited, and the fact that they come from a system known for producing good young SPs made me more confident that at least one would turn out to be special. It hasn't happened yet, but again, the salary dump of close to $250M can end up amounting to a boatload of talent. I'm not that happy with what we spent already but some of this money can be attributed to the loss of Dice-K and others as well...

    $39M Victorino

    $26.5M Dempster

    $10M Gomes (Better than Cody Ross' contract)

    $9.5M Drew

    $6.2M D Ross (OK with me)

    $5M+ Napoli (OK @ 1 year)

    $4.25M Uehara (Great, but just 1 year deal during a bridge season)

     

    I would not have spent the $79M on the 3 underlined players, but I'm OK with the other $20.5M.

    Basically, we've spent about $100M out of the $240 we saved on the Dodger trade. I hope we do better with the next $140M, or we will need DLR and/or Webster to shine to make it stay a great deal. However, one could put it like this:

    Would you trade AGon for DLR, Webster, part of Hanrahan & Holt (for Sands), Victorino, Dempster, Naps, Drew, Gomes, Ross, Uehara, and $140M to spend over the next 4-5 years?

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedsoxProspects. Show RedsoxProspects's posts

    Re: De La Rosa and Webster

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Well, I did call the deal "possibly the Sox best deal of my lifetime."

     

    Basically, we've spent about $100M out of the $240 we saved on the Dodger trade. I hope we do better with the next $140M, or we will need DLR and/or Webster to shine to make it stay a great deal. However, one could put it like this:

    Would you trade AGon for DLR, Webster, part of Hanrahan & Holt (for Sands), Victorino, Dempster, Naps, Drew, Gomes, Ross, Uehara, and $140M to spend over the next 4-5 years?



    Moon, what a great way to say it. I think most of us would take that deal in a heartbeat. It was a game changer wasn't it and it was essentially what you have been saying for the past several months. They did choose to retool in a major way. I think they also decided that both Crawford and Adrian were never going to perform at the level they projected and that those sorts of very long term deals were not in their interest. Adrian's shoulder injury appears to have affected his power and maybe the park factor was always about more doubles impact than HR. And Crawford was never as good defensively in Fenway as they expected with no major aptitude to hit the wall very often with his off field pop. Consider this; Maybe those deals were all about star power and fan excitement also. Ways to get people to watch on TV. When that approach failed, they retooled. 

    And they retooled is a huge way. Overall, they have done what you are suggesting Moon. They differ with your position in just minor ways.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: De La Rosa and Webster

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    The Dodger system has developed some fine starting pitchers over the years, maybe we should keep trying to raid team's farm systems like theirs.

    That Dodger trade may just end up being the best Sox deal of my lifetime.

     




    Thats why I dont think they were too worried with adding more pirching prospects for the future. I believe they thought they got their christmas shopping done early.

     

     



    So many good pitching prospects never pan out. The more the better.

     




    I agree, but the deal has to be right. Apparently BB ops didnt think any offers made were worth it.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: De La Rosa and Webster

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to carnie's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    The Dodger system has developed some fine starting pitchers over the years, maybe we should keep trying to raid team's farm systems like theirs.

    That Dodger trade may just end up being the best Sox deal of my lifetime.

     




    It would have to be awfully good to beat Pedro for a bunch of nobodies or Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek for Heathcliff (Gas Can) Slocumb.

     

     



    I wouldn't say Pavano and Armas Jr were "nobodies", but that trade was a steal. So was the VTek & Lowe deal. 

     

    The reason I am calling this the possible best deal of my generation is that not only might DLR and/or Webster turn into an ace, but the $200M plus saved by dumping mostly deadwood can provide players over the next 5 years that may lead us to the promiseland.




    Moon your point is spot on. If Webster and De La Rosa become very good pitchers it probably will be one of the best trades ever made by RS if you include the $ saved as well. But IMO one thing that will prevent from being the best is the fact that I believe that CC and Agon have a lot of good baseball left in them and will put up some good #'s for the Dodgers. But the way things were working out for them[Beckett/CC/Agon] in Boston it was going to get real ugly real soon. May work out for both teams, Dodgers have plenty of pitching and were able to sacrifice [2] elite young power arms, RS get do over financially plus young arms.

    This trade also should mention that the spare parts in the trade + others, the RS were also able to acquire Hanrahan who if he saves 40+ games this year will also be a huge upgrade for RS pen.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: De La Rosa and Webster

    Well, I did call the deal "possibly the Sox best deal of my lifetime."

     

    Basically, we've spent about $100M out of the $240 we saved on the Dodger trade. I hope we do better with the next $140M, or we will need DLR and/or Webster to shine to make it stay a great deal. However, one could put it like this:

    Would you trade AGon for DLR, Webster, part of Hanrahan & Holt (for Sands), Victorino, Dempster, Naps, Drew, Gomes, Ross, Uehara, and $140M to spend over the next 4-5 years?

     



    Moon, what a great way to say it. I think most of us would take that deal in a heartbeat. It was a game changer wasn't it and it was essentially what you have been saying for the past several months. They did choose to retool in a major way. I think they also decided that both Crawford and Adrian were never going to perform at the level they projected and that those sorts of very long term deals were not in their interest. Adrian's shoulder injury appears to have affected his power and maybe the park factor was always about more doubles impact than HR. And Crawford was never as good defensively in Fenway as they expected with no major aptitude to hit the wall very often with his off field pop. Consider this; Maybe those deals were all about star power and fan excitement also. Ways to get people to watch on TV. When that approach failed, they retooled. 

     

    And they retooled is a huge way. Overall, they have done what you are suggesting Moon. They differ with your position in just minor ways.

     

    I have said I am happy about the overall changes made since (and including) the Dodger trade. I had hoped we'd do better to improve our longterm outlook after the Dodger trade, but I am giving Ben some time to prove his abilities. He deserves it.

    I'm also hoping the $140+M waiting to be spent will be spent better than winter 2013's money was spent. 

    On the Dodger trade, I consider the Beckett, CC and Punto part of the deal as necessary dumps, so essentially we traded just AGon for all the players listed plus added budget room of about $240M over about 5 years. The deal was brilliant. I am not sure Theo would have done it or even try for it.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: De La Rosa and Webster

    I wouldn't say Pavano and Armas Jr were "nobodies", but that trade was a steal. So was the VTek & Lowe deal. 

     

    The reason I am calling this the possible best deal of my generation is that not only might DLR and/or Webster turn into an ace, but the $200M plus saved by dumping mostly deadwood can provide players over the next 5 years that may lead us to the promiseland.

     




     

    Moon your point is spot on. If Webster and De La Rosa become very good pitchers it probably will be one of the best trades ever made by RS if you include the $ saved as well. But IMO one thing that will prevent from being the best is the fact that I believe that CC and Agon have a lot of good baseball left in them and will put up some good #'s for the Dodgers. But the way things were working out for them[Beckett/CC/Agon] in Boston it was going to get real ugly real soon. May work out for both teams, Dodgers have plenty of pitching and were able to sacrifice [2] elite young power arms, RS get do over financially plus young arms.

    One thing that will be hard to judge is that if AGon, CC and Josh go on to have very good seasons with the Dodgers, can we assume they would have done that here? Had things become too toxic for them to flourish in Boston?

     

    This trade also should mention that the spare parts in the trade + others, the RS were also able to acquire Hanrahan who if he saves 40+ games this year will also be a huge upgrade for RS pen.

    Yes, I mentioned "part of Hanarahan & Holt (Sands)...

    The trade is not done giving. We still have over $140M to spend in the next few years, and we may trade some of our signess or get draft picks when the walk to be counted as part of the Dodger trade as well.

     

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