Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    Remember, Peavy could pitch in relief G1 and your #1 Starter could pitch relief in G3



    Could, but why?

    Unless it's an emergency.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    Is there a disease-ridden fly buzzing around here?

    Sox4ever

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Remember, Peavy could pitch in relief G1 and your #1 Starter could pitch relief in G3

     



    Could, but why?

     

    Unless it's an emergency.

    [/QUOTE]


    because you get to use your best pitchers

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

     

    Remember, Peavy could pitch in relief G1 and your #1 Starter could pitch relief in G3

     

     



    Could, but why?

     

     

    Unless it's an emergency.




     

    because you get to use your best pitchers




    ...and take them out of their element and maybe mess them up.

    If it was such a great idea, why don't managers do it every playoff season?

    I get the theory, and I realize pitchers pitch between starts as part of their normal regime, but coming into a game as a relief pitcher is different from throwing a set amount of pitches in the pen on their "tweener day".

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    Some managers have done it

    Others may not because of other circumstances


    I think the fact that we have 4 solid starters and a fairly weak pen, coupled with the extra days off, means there is an opportunity to do that

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    Yes, two of them. Demspter as the "long relief guy" over Workman, and the self adjulating realistic jester.




    Strangely enough I don't disagree Workman might be better than Dempster, but I see four righties in the bullpen--Uehara, Tazawa, Workman, and Dempster.  I think Dempster prefers to nibble at the strike zone these days because he has been hit hard, but I still like him better than other righties further down the list.  Three lefties:  Breslow, Morales, and Doubront.  So that makes three long relievers in the bullpen. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    Some managers have done it

    Others may not because of other circumstances


    I think the fact that we have 4 solid starters and a fairly weak pen, coupled with the extra days off, means there is an opportunity to do that



    It's not about days off. It's about thinking pitching in relief is the same routine as strecthing out between starts. It might mess up someones groove. It might not.

    Certainly, if we are in a do or die mode, you go with the best you got if there's no tomorrow. That has happened in a few situations (remember Pedro vs the Indians and Wake vs the Yanks).

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    I think it needs to be on the table

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    Dempster is almost always fine the first 3 innings, and even better the first two.  His stuff doesn't play up as well over the long haul and when players get 2nd 3rd looks at him.

    It will be interesting to see how he does in the pen.  I have no doubt that he can be very effective for an inning, it's how he handles coming in in consecutive days or on one days rest that makes me wonder. 

     
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    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    @alexspeier 
    Farrell also says Dempster will work out of bullpen going forward. Sox envision him as a weapon, not a long man. Stuff could play up...


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    If you need a long man in the playoffs, it is not a good thing.

    Stabbed by Foulke.



    Or it's a high scoring game where both teams starters get hit...in this instance a long man could prove invaluable. The role of the long man in the post season it's two fold...give the team innings to save the pen in blowouts and or take the ball in games that go extras And put up zeros...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    If you need a long man in the playoffs, it is not a good thing.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     



    Or it's a high scoring game where both teams starters get hit...in this instance a long man could prove invaluable. The role of the long man in the post season it's two fold...give the team innings to save the pen in blowouts and or take the ball in games that go extras And put up zeros...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That can definitely be a valuable commodity, especially in the post season, but it sounds like they are going to give him an opportunity to be a 7th or 8th inning guy, at least until the end of the season.  He can probably still dial it up to 94 or 95 in short spurts & late inning relief in the post season is crucial.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    I think it needs to be on the table



    Of course it will be, if we are in an emergency do or die situation.

    I thought we were talking about planning for it to happen by limiting the amount of relief pitchers needed, because our starters could and would be used in relief between starts.

    I'm against forming the playoff roster based on counting the starters as starters/relievers.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    Dempster is almost always fine the first 3 innings, and even better the first two.  His stuff doesn't play up as well over the long haul and when players get 2nd 3rd looks at him.

    It will be interesting to see how he does in the pen.  I have no doubt that he can be very effective for an inning, it's how he handles coming in in consecutive days or on one days rest that makes me wonder. 



    Yes, I agree. He could be used as a long man or a short man/set-up guy depending on who is due up.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

     

     

    I think it needs to be on the table

     

     



    Of course it will be, if we are in an emergency do or die situation.

     

     

    I thought we were talking about planning for it to happen by limiting the amount of relief pitchers needed, because our starters could and would be used in relief between starts.

    I'm against forming the playoff roster based on counting the starters as starters/relievers.

     




    Put it this way - if an 11th pitcher does not rise to the opportunity (eg Doubrant, Thornton) then in a 5 game series over 10 days w/ 4 days rest BEFORE it starts.....then why not go w/ an extra bat and then be prepared to use one of the starters - not as a do or die and not as part of Plan A but certainly as Plan B..........


    btw, that's why D Lowe was so valuable...........big mistake on Theo's part to let him walk.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    Of course it will be, if we are in an emergency do or die situation.

     

     

    I thought we were talking about planning for it to happen by limiting the amount of relief pitchers needed, because our starters could and would be used in relief between starts.

    I'm against forming the playoff roster based on counting the starters as starters/relievers.

     




    Put it this way - if an 11th pitcher does not rise to the opportunity (eg Doubrant, Thornton) then in a 5 game series over 10 days w/ 4 days rest BEFORE it starts.....then why not go w/ an extra bat and then be prepared to use one of the starters - not as a do or die and not as part of Plan A but certainly as Plan B..........

    I think 14 positional players is more than enough, but adding a 15th does have some advantages.

    The probable 14:

    Salty, Ross

    Napoli, Carp

    Papi

    Pedroia

    Drew

    Middlebrooks, Bogey

    Nava, Gomes

    Ellsbury, Berry

    Victorino

     

    If we added Bradley or Lava, is it really that big a deal?

     

    One long extra inning game, and we'd be in trouble with a 10 man rotation.

    Yes, the 4 days rest before the series helps, but I really think we should try and avoid using starters as pen guys between playoff starts. Keeping their normal routine has a lot of advantages. You don't want to have to use a starter in relief due to other pitchers all being used up or fatigued: you wan't to only use them if the whole season is on the line.

     


    btw, that's why D Lowe was so valuable...........big mistake on Theo's part to let him walk.

     

    Derek had some off-field issues that were risky on a 4 year deal. The Dodgers paid pretty good money for Lowe, and in hindsight, it looked like a good signing, but it's not like Lowe did fantastic with LA. Pitching in a pitcher's park, with no DH, he went 54-48  3.59  1.230. Nice numbers but not great.  (33-24  3.28  1.149 in Dodger Stadium, so 21-24 away).

    Sox4ever

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    It's instant insurance for Ellsbury and Victorino if you add JBJ

    If Ross gets into a game (say Salty is PH for) you can still PH for Ross (later in the game) if you have add Lava


    Not mission critical I know but could be more valuable then adding a WEAK pitcher to the staff who, if you had to use could cost you the entire series.  And hence, my POV of using one of the 4 starters if you ever need an 11th guy...............

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    It's instant insurance for Ellsbury and Victorino if you add JBJ

    If Ross gets into a game (say Salty is PH for) you can still PH for Ross (later in the game) if you have add Lava


    Not mission critical I know but could be more valuable then adding a WEAK pitcher to the staff who, if you had to use could cost you the entire series.  And hence, my POV of using one of the 4 starters if you ever need an 11th guy...............



    Yes, I like the idea of being able to PH for Salty (vs a LHP) or Ross, but putting Lava behind the plate scares me. (Remember, although we have not used Napoli as a catcher, he is a good 3rd catcher emergency guy.)

    I'm not that worried about the OF. If Jacoby or Victorino get hurt, we can replace them on the roster by the next game. We only have to get through one game, and we have Nava, Carp, Gomes, and Berry to fill in for the two China Dolls. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    It's instant insurance for Ellsbury and Victorino if you add JBJ

    If Ross gets into a game (say Salty is PH for) you can still PH for Ross (later in the game) if you have add Lava


    Not mission critical I know but could be more valuable then adding a WEAK pitcher to the staff who, if you had to use could cost you the entire series.  And hence, my POV of using one of the 4 starters if you ever need an 11th guy...............

     



    Yes, I like the idea of being able to PH for Salty (vs a LHP) or Ross, but putting Lava behind the plate scares me. (Remember, although we have not used Napoli as a catcher, he is a good 3rd catcher emergency guy.)

     

    I'm not that worried about the OF. If Jacoby or Victorino get hurt, we can replace them on the roster by the next game. We only have to get through one game, and we have Nava, Carp, Gomes, and Berry to fill in for the two China Dolls. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes but in that situation you PH for both catchers only if you are behind.  Then you have to risk getting in a better bat over Ross to try and catch up/tie/go ahead and then deal w/ Lava's D.  You wouldn't do it if you already had the lead.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    PS - Vic ain't no china doll......I don't even think Jake is (yet)......Buck on the other hand - GREAT BIG HAIRY CHINA DOLL!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    PS - Vic ain't no china doll......I don't even think Jake is (yet)......Buck on the other hand - GREAT BIG HAIRY CHINA DOLL!



    Vic has had a lot of little nagging injuries, and one injury that has forced him not to switch hit this year. I'm confident he'll play every game this playoff season, but there certainly is a higher risk he gets hurt than Nava, or Gomes, of JBJ.

    Jacoby has missed alot of time. It's been debated to death.

    Buch has too.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    PS - Vic ain't no china doll......I don't even think Jake is (yet)......Buck on the other hand - GREAT BIG HAIRY CHINA DOLL!

     



    Vic has had a lot of little nagging injuries, and one injury that has forced him not to switch hit this year. I'm confident he'll play every game this playoff season, but there certainly is a higher risk he gets hurt than Nava, or Gomes, of JBJ.

     

    Jacoby has missed alot of time. It's been debated to death.

    Buch has too.

    [/QUOTE]

    Moon, not picking on you, but calling Victorino a "china doll" seems to be another case of you taking a shot at yet another player you were dead wrong about.  There are people who know a whole heck of a lot more than you do who will argue that he has been the Sox MVP this year, on & off the field.  He runs through walls for this team and his pre-game preparation is legendary.  If he can "walk," he'll play.  Calling a guy like Victorino a "china doll" because you didn't like the signing takes away from your credibility.  The guy has been everything the Sox could have possibly hoped for this year....and more.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Dempster as the Long Man in the Playoffs

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to andrewmitch's comment:

     

     

    PS - Vic ain't no china doll......I don't even think Jake is (yet)......Buck on the other hand - GREAT BIG HAIRY CHINA DOLL!

     

     



    Vic has had a lot of little nagging injuries, and one injury that has forced him not to switch hit this year. I'm confident he'll play every game this playoff season, but there certainly is a higher risk he gets hurt than Nava, or Gomes, of JBJ.

     

     

    Jacoby has missed alot of time. It's been debated to death.

    Buch has too.



    Moon, not picking on you, but calling Victorino a "china doll" seems to be another case of you taking a shot at yet another player you were dead wrong about.  There are people who know a whole heck of a lot more than you do who will argue that he has been the Sox MVP this year, on & off the field.  He runs through walls for this team and his pre-game preparation is legendary.  If he can "walk," he'll play.  Calling a guy like Victorino a "china doll" because you didn't like the signing takes away from your credibility.  The guy has been everything the Sox could have possibly hoped for this year....and more.

     



    The fact of the matter is that both Victorino and Ellsbury BOTH get hurt a lot. Vic, to his credit, plays through most of his injuries, and for the most part they are minor. The label you put on them is irrelevant.

     

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