Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fir.eballer58. Show fir.eballer58's posts

    Do you agree with ...

    Two e-mails in recent days termed J.D. Drew "a bust" with the Red Sox. I suspect this opinion is colored by how poor his 2011 season has been. But it raises a valid question: How good has he actually been for the Red Sox?

    For any person in any occupation, it is fair to be judged against your peers. In this case, Drew is a right fielder in the American League and has been from 2007-2011. So I researched all American League players in those five years who played 65 percent or more of their games in right field and played a minimum of 400 games.

    Here is what I found:

    OPS
    1. Ordonez .876
    2. Choo .836
    3. Cruz .852
    4. Drew .835

    OPS+
    (which adjusts to the league and home park)
    1. Choo 136
    2. Ordonez 130
    3. Cruz 121
    4. Abreu 118
    5. Drew and Markakis 117

    RBIs
    1. Abreu 414
    2. Markakis 387
    3. Ordonez 358
    4. Cuddyer 321
    5. Drew 282

    HR
    1. Dye 89
    2. Cruz 88
    3. Drew 80

    BB
    1. Abreu 386
    2. Drew 327

    Games
    1. Markakis 710
    2. Suzuki 704
    3. Abreu 692
    4. Cuddyer 592
    5. Drew 584

    Drew is 9th with a .266 batting average. I suspect that is part of his problem with fans. But an educated fan knows that OPS is a much more telling statistic than batting average.

    Then we get to defense

    UZR
    1. Suzuki 35.2
    2. Rios 30.1
    3. Drew 23.3

    UZR/150
    1 Suzuki 35.2
    2. Rios 30.1
    3. Drew 23.3

    So by an objective measure, Drew has been one of the top three or four right fielders in the American League during his tenure in Boston. He has been durable, productive at the plate and efficient in the field.

    Two issues cloud this measure:

    • Drew has made $14 million a year, making him one of the highest-paid players on the team. But, again, let's judge him by his peers in teams of age and position over those years:

    Abreu's average salary: $11 million
    Ordonez's average salary: $16 million
    Suzuki's average salary: $15 million

    Basically the Red Sox paid the going rate for a right fielder of his skills.

    • Drew is not a "dirt dog" player who throws his bat, gets ejected or says colorful things to the media.

    I guess that's a personal preference. But if you try and use such measures to evaluate a player instead of cold, hard facts, you would last 20 minutes as a general manager. Abreu gets painted by the same brush.

    That all said, this season has been ugly for Drew and it may not get any better. But that is the price you pay when you sign a player to a long-term contract as a free agent. Quite often, the final year becomes basically a pension.

    That is true across the game. It's the price of doing business. The Tigers are paying Ordonez $15 million this year and have gotten .176/.234/.252 over 33 games in return. Suzuki is hitting .279/.326 /.334 for Seattle at cost of $17 million and has $17 million guaranteed for next year.

    Heck yes, the Red Sox could use a better right fielder than what they have now. But to label J.D. Drew a bust is to not look at the facts.

    In the end, he gave them what they paid for. Nothing is going to change that.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from --the--yazzer. Show --the--yazzer's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    i disagree with just about everything abraham writes, probably in crayon.
    he's a tool; in fact, he theo's tool.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    Thanks for posting P.A.'s analysis Fireballer.  I love a little island of specific sense amidst the ocean of generalized bashing.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]i disagree with just about everything abraham writes, probably in crayon. he's a tool; in fact, he theo's tool.
    Posted by --the--yazzer[/QUOTE]
    Good well supported argument backed with statistics and facts. Oh. Wait.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    Then there's also the question of who was available at the time the Red Sox signed him in the offseason of 2006/2007 and what other options the Red Sox had to fill a void in rightfield at that time in terms of cost and prospects for trade.  Looked at it in that light, Drew helped keep the team to be competitive from 2007 to 2009.  Last year and this year so far, not so much. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]Thanks for posting P.A.'s analysis Fireballer.  I love a little island of specific sense amidst the ocean of generalized bashing.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    Anyone can cherry-pick stats.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    The fact that we get these puff pieces each year trying to justify Drew proves that he's still an embarrassment to Theo.  

    Solid ballplayers don't need stories that construct arguments to show they're OK.

    What's next from Abraham/Theo?

    A Dice-K meatball?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff Two e-mails in recent days termed J.D. Drew "a bust" with the Red Sox. I suspect this opinion is colored by how poor his 2011 season has been. But it raises a valid question: How good has he actually been for the Red Sox? For any person in any occupation, it is fair to be judged against your peers. In this case, Drew is a right fielder in the American League and has been from 2007-2011. So I researched all American League players in those five years who played 65 percent or more of their games in right field and played a minimum of 400 games. Here is what I found: OPS 1. Ordonez .876 2. Choo .836 3. Cruz .852 4. Drew .835 OPS+ (which adjusts to the league and home park) 1. Choo 136 2. Ordonez 130 3. Cruz 121 4. Abreu 118 5. Drew and Markakis 117 RBIs 1. Abreu 414 2. Markakis 387 3. Ordonez 358 4. Cuddyer 321 5. Drew 282 HR 1. Dye 89 2. Cruz 88 3. Drew 80 BB 1. Abreu 386 2. Drew 327 Games 1. Markakis 710 2. Suzuki 704 3. Abreu 692 4. Cuddyer 592 5. Drew 584 Drew is 9th with a .266 batting average. I suspect that is part of his problem with fans. But an educated fan knows that OPS is a much more telling statistic than batting average. Then we get to defense UZR 1. Suzuki 35.2 2. Rios 30.1 3. Drew 23.3 UZR/150 1 Suzuki 35.2 2. Rios 30.1 3. Drew 23.3 So by an objective measure, Drew has been one of the top three or four right fielders in the American League during his tenure in Boston. He has been durable, productive at the plate and efficient in the field. Two issues cloud this measure: • Drew has made $14 million a year, making him one of the highest-paid players on the team. But, again, let's judge him by his peers in teams of age and position over those years: Abreu's average salary: $11 million Ordonez's average salary: $16 million Suzuki's average salary: $15 million Basically the Red Sox paid the going rate for a right fielder of his skills. • Drew is not a "dirt dog" player who throws his bat, gets ejected or says colorful things to the media. I guess that's a personal preference. But if you try and use such measures to evaluate a player instead of cold, hard facts, you would last 20 minutes as a general manager. Abreu gets painted by the same brush. That all said, this season has been ugly for Drew and it may not get any better. But that is the price you pay when you sign a player to a long-term contract as a free agent. Quite often, the final year becomes basically a pension. That is true across the game. It's the price of doing business. The Tigers are paying Ordonez $15 million this year and have gotten .176/.234/.252 over 33 games in return. Suzuki is hitting .279/.326 /.334 for Seattle at cost of $17 million and has $17 million guaranteed for next year. Heck yes, the Red Sox could use a better right fielder than what they have now. But to label J.D. Drew a bust is to not look at the facts. In the end, he gave them what they paid for. Nothing is going to change that.
    Posted by fir.eballer58[/QUOTE]

    Great analysis.    I do agree that Drew is a very good outfielder, definitely above average.  Although Suzuki is one of my favorite MLB players and I always wonder what it would be like to have him play for the Red Sox. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    I really think it is irrelevant to compare his performance over the past 5 years.....ok...lets all agree he wasnt a bust.....or lets all agree he is a bust....no....can we all agree he is a bust this year and we all know it is last year with the Sox and maybe baseball....of course we can.....so all the criticism he is getting is based on that...not what he did in 2007, 8 or 9.....he stinks now and most Sox fans do not think he has the desire to be any better this year....so most Sox fans do not want to watch him hurt the team this year by him playing.....seems completely logical and fair to me.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]The fact that we get these puff pieces each year trying to justify Drew proves that he's still an embarrassment to Theo.   Solid ballplayers don't need stories that construct arguments to show they're OK. What's next from Abraham/Theo? A Dice-K meatball?
    Posted by Ergoetal[/QUOTE]

    Wrong, this blog article was made in response to emails. The fact we still get these statistical articles just shows how blind and ignorant some fans are.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]I really think it is irrelevant to compare his performance over the past 5 years.....ok...lets all agree he wasnt a bust.....or lets all agree he is a bust....no....can we all agree he is a bust this year and we all know it is last year with the Sox and maybe baseball....of course we can.....so all the criticism he is getting is based on that...not what he did in 2007, 8 or 9.....he stinks now and most Sox fans do not think he has the desire to be any better this year....so most Sox fans do not want to watch him hurt the team this year by him playing.....seems completely logical and fair to me.
    Posted by tomnev[/QUOTE]

    This isn't how baseball works. Players get large multiyear deals because they are aware by the end of them they won't be the same player and they won't make the same amount of money entering free agency. Baseball GM's and owners overpay for the last 1-2 years of a contract, to get the solid years the beginning of the contract gives.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    I'll bet JD is #1 in getting caught looking for strike three, hands down.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game. : This isn't how baseball works. Players get large multiyear deals because they are aware by the end of them they won't be the same player and they won't make the same amount of money entering free agency. Baseball GM's and owners overpay for the last 1-2 years of a contract, to get the solid years the beginning of the contract gives.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game. : Anyone can cherry-pick stats.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    OPS, OPS+, RBIs, HRs, BBs and games played (for all the Nancy-Drew-DLers out there) is hardly cherry-picking.  Those are all very significant stat categories and he acknowledges that batting average sticks out as a negative.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game. : This isn't how baseball works. Players get large multiyear deals because they are aware by the end of them they won't be the same player and they won't make the same amount of money entering free agency. Baseball GM's and owners overpay for the last 1-2 years of a contract, to get the solid years the beginning of the contract gives.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    My point was that Abraham seems to think that fans are on Drew because he was a bust over the length of his contract and he is statistically proving the opposite....I think fans are on him only because he is horrible this year and could care less if he lived up to his contract as whole.....maybe management is willing to take down years at the end of a contract....as fans we can be as displeased as we want to if it is the first year or last year.....because if a player is not performing and hurting the team, then management can accept it....pay his salary and still not play him everyday.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game. : My point was that Abraham seems to think that fans are on Drew because he was a bust over the length of his contract and he is statistically proving the opposite....I think fans are on him only because he is horrible this year and could care less if he lived up to his contract as whole.....maybe management is willing to take down years at the end of a contract....as fans we can be as displeased as we want to if it is the first year or last year.....because if a player is not performing and hurting the team, then management can accept it....pay his salary and still not play him everyday.
    Posted by tomnev[/QUOTE]

    If the F.O. truly had a replacement that much better than him, they would sit him. News flash, they don't. J. D. and Reddick are doing the same thing, except Reddick's numbers come in the minors and J. D.'s come in the majors, and J. D. has a better glove to boot. Reddick's 9 games played are far too small of a sample size to say "LIEK OMG. THIS GUY IS BATTING .409". The only thing that this sample size has done is keep him on the team, when D-Mac and Cam are already here. If he continues to play well he should be given playing time over D-Mac and Cam, but not immediately over J.D.

    You can give the reason of fan displeasure, but it doesn't change how Tito and the FO should approach RF.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    Anyone with a long career in any field is likely to experience a decline in skills at some point.

    Red Sox fan should appreciate J.D. Drew's contributions since 2007 and treat Drew with dignity as the veteran ages.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game. : Anyone can cherry-pick stats.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    Can you?

    He listed eight stats that showed how high Drew ranked over a period of four-plus years. Do you have anything to refute that.

    Probably not.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from --the--yazzer. Show --the--yazzer's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    i can refute it just for having watched him play the last 4+ years.
    believe your eyes, not what some cream-puff writer wants you to believe.

    anyone who seriously believes that drew was and is worth 14million/year should watch the SOX games on the radio, because you are the ones that are blind.
    i'm just amazed he doesn't suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome, the worm killer that he is.
    btw, is nusoxfan another alias for the great mr abraham?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    Words of wisdom my friends, as I've said before J.D. Drew is the most over rated under rated player.  The enlightened fans find themselves going over the top to defend Drew because of all the hate he has received and as the starter of this thread has pointed out clearly there is no evidence to call Drew a bad player.  As a matter of fact over the past decade he has produced compared to other MLB outfielders and his salary is in line with his stats compared to the league.

    I love how the natural refute in the face of evidence comes down to circumstances, such as "a player striking out" or "player acting like he doesn't care"  These are B.S. excuses for not liking a player, if you hate someone you will find any reason to hate on them.......haterade is a very powerful drink.  You can go back and find countless times that EVERY player has struck out, even in big spots and if you happen to dislike that player then it will stand out in your mind even more.

    The next argument I love is how J.D. Drew plays the game as if he doesn't care and with no passion.  This is not only ridiculous but it's once again just a scape goat.  People look at AVG and HR's it's all about the stats not someone's demeanor if this was true....NO ONE WOULD LIKE ADRIAN GONZALEZ, who plays the game with pretty much the same attitude as Drew does.  Personally i don't want a pre-Madonna, over the top, melodramatic punk he cries and yells every time a play doesn't go his way....in my personal opinion professional athletes who keep a cool head have always tended to play better.....just look at, well, Adrain Gonzalez. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]i can refute it just for having watched him play the last 4+ years. believe your eyes, not what some cream-puff writer wants you to believe. anyone who seriously believes that drew was and is worth 14million/year should watch the SOX games on the radio, because you are the ones that are blind. i'm just amazed he doesn't suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome, the worm killer that he is. btw, is nusoxfan another alias for the great mr abraham?
    Posted by --the--yazzer[/QUOTE]

    Then you should take your head out of your azz and actually open your eyes. Abraham didn't make up stats. THey're there in black and white. Just because you have an irrational hatred for the guy, doesn't make the stats less true.

    No one is defending how he's batting this year, just looking at the overall picture.

    If you want to say he's not worth a dime this year, fine. He's been horrible overall at the plate this year. But the analysis isn't just for this year, or are you too stupid to realize it?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from --the--yazzer. Show --the--yazzer's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    based on your avatar, you should peddle your teenage azz home.
    btw, drew suked when he was at st. louis, too. inepstein should have checked with larusso and sox fans wouldn't have to be dealing with this waste of space today. but as usual, theo just looks at the back of their baseball cards and goes from there.
    if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
    btw, i don't HATE the guy, but i  would LOVE him to leave.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]based on your avatar, you should peddle your teenage azz home. btw, drew suked when he was at st. louis, too. inepstein should have checked with larusso and sox fans wouldn't have to be dealing with this waste of space today. but as usual, theo just looks at the back of their baseball cards and goes from there. if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. btw, i don't HATE the guy, but i  would LOVE him to leave.
    Posted by --the--yazzer[/QUOTE]

    Wow. I wish I was a teenager again. No bills, no mortgage. No responsibilities. Could eat 24-7, always have an appetite and never gain weight. Driving around in my old '72 Cutlass, cherry-apple red, duel exhaust, Rocket 350 engine with a four-barrel holley. Those were the days.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the best in the game. : If the F.O. truly had a replacement that much better than him, they would sit him. News flash, they don't. J. D. and Reddick are doing the same thing, except Reddick's numbers come in the minors and J. D.'s come in the majors, and J. D. has a better glove to boot. Reddick's 9 games played are far too small of a sample size to say "LIEK OMG. THIS GUY IS BATTING .409". The only thing that this sample size has done is keep him on the team, when D-Mac and Cam are already here. If he continues to play well he should be given playing time over D-Mac and Cam, but not immediately over J.D. You can give the reason of fan displeasure, but it doesn't change how Tito and the FO should approach RF.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    I agree basing thing on small sample size is always dangerous, but the only way the sample size gets bigger is if you play him and find out. When Crawford is healthy, he isnt likely to take playing time from Cam and DMac since they are righties.....if there is a tough lefty in, Francona will play Cam or DMac....if there is a righty he goes with Drew, so if he is going to steal any playing time it is from JD and only JD. So when Crawford is back, and if by then JD still is in a funk, where would it hurt to give him a shot?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Abraham?-J.D. Drew compared to other AL right fielders in the last four years proves he's one of the be...

    The fact that so many fairweather fans and newbies, so many sportswriters hungry for a story continue to try and emphasize to all of us with two eyes in our heads that Drew is in fact a "good player" is reason enough for me to doubt this is so. But the ridiculous attempts at statistical proof are just laughable, we all see the same thing...don't we, a batting average below .240 most of this year ( almost half over!) , a batting average of around .255 last season, numerous weak grounders to 2nd base, watching called 3rd strikes whizz by on hittable balls ( he refuses to foul these off...he really thinks the ump is going to give him his coveted base on balls!...walks do not provide excitement, this guy bats 6th or lower and has the mentality of a leadoff batter. Sure he's a decent defensive outfielder but really , all that money for defense...really!!!
     

Share