Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]A more extreme approach would be to trade Youk ($12.5M) and move Scutaro to 3B and use Iggy/Aviles at SS with Lowrie at 3B/2B/SS. It's not likely we can find a trade partner who will give us quality pitching for Youk, but maybe we could trade him for prospects and then flip the prospects for a good arm or two. That's the direction I'd take.  You could free up money trading Scutaro, but ideally Iglesias gets another year in the minors.  The target team I'd have for him would be the WS.  They got almost nothing out of 3B.  It looks like they are retrenching, and not taking on salary, but Youk would be a substantial upgrade at 3B.  I'd flip him for Floyd, and apply the ~ $5M in savings to the BP.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    White Sox are in the midst of a complete rebuild.  They wouldn't have any interest in Youk (see the Santos trade).
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    I was thinking Youk had more value at 1B, since his fielding and health have declined, and there are teams desperate to replace lost 1Bmen, but your deal could work...

    How's this...

    Floyd (29 in Jan): 12:$7M, 13:$9.5M club option
    Ohman (35 in Aug): 12: 2.5M

    For 

    Youk: 12:$12M, 13:$13M club option ($1M buyout)
    Doubront or Weiland

    I'd love to make it bigger:

    Peavy ($21M incl buyout for '13), Floyd, Quentin, Crain & Ohman
    For
    Youk, Crawford (plus deferred cash), Iggy, Kalish & Weiland

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    The Sox made their bed with CC and Lackey and then going gangbusters for A-GON...They felt their first move would be to go PR with the fans and bring back Big Papi. I still see him being a detriment during interleague play as he suddenly just becomes a backup/pinch hitter during NL road games. The need is to play him v lefties no matter what because he's the starting DH. With Adrian at 1b, there is no room for Youks to DH on given days. Sox need pitching, pitching, pitching...so far they signed Andrew Miller, Bard is now becoming a starter, and the Sox vaunted relief corps is short a closer. Nickel and dime it now, all the money spent before was needless cash thrown away for rainy days like now. Cherington has a lot of work to do. He'll need cash to use, and this regime is in a spendthrift mode now. Hard to turn on and off the bank vault door.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    Welcome to the Whiny Spoiled Brat thread.

    This team has a payroll around $170mill, and all some fans can cry is "these guys are CHEAP!!!"  

    We can't all spend every off-season like the Yankees.  After all, look at all the cash they've thrown around.  They got Freddy Garcia and.... ummm... one of the Nix brothers, I think... oooh and Freddy Garcia!!  How do we keep up with that?

    A little off topic, but are there really two Nix brothers?  They have to be the most injury-prone siblings in MLB history. What did their mommy feed them that made them so fragile?  It seems like they are never both off the DL.  I have a theory that are they just one guy who uses the DL to pretend he is two players (and gets two paychecks.  clever!).

    I know one is lefty and the other righty, but that could be done with mirrors.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]Welcome to the Whiny Spoiled Brat thread. This team has a payroll around $170mill, and all some fans can cry is "these guys are CHEAP!!!"   We can't all spend every off-season like the Yankees.  After all, look at all the cash they've thrown around.  They got Freddy Garcia and.... ummm... one of the Nix brothers, I think... oooh and Freddy Garcia!!  How do we keep up with that? A little off topic, but are there really two Nix brothers?  They have to be the most injury-prone siblings in MLB history. What did their mommy feed them that made them so fragile?  It seems like they are never both off the DL.  I have a theory that are they just one guy who uses the DL to pretend he is two players (and gets two paychecks.  clever!). I know one is lefty and the other righty, but that could be done with mirrors.
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Or, he's secretly a switch-hitter.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    And switch thrower?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]The Sox made their bed with CC and Lackey and then going gangbusters for A-GON...They felt their first move would be to go PR with the fans and bring back Big Papi. I still see him being a detriment during interleague play as he suddenly just becomes a backup/pinch hitter during NL road games. The need is to play him v lefties no matter what because he's the starting DH. With Adrian at 1b, there is no room for Youks to DH on given days. Sox need pitching, pitching, pitching...so far they signed Andrew Miller, Bard is now becoming a starter, and the Sox vaunted relief corps is short a closer. Nickel and dime it now, all the money spent before was needless cash thrown away for rainy days like now. Cherington has a lot of work to do. He'll need cash to use, and this regime is in a spendthrift mode now. Hard to turn on and off the bank vault door.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Whenever there is a problem, throw money at it and it will go away.



     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    I am not one of those complaining about payroll in terms of "lack of increase." This payroll is sick and we have our bed to lie in already. Tweaks and tad adjustments are all that we should expect. 

    Does anyone think Henry got rich by blowing millions? He likely has looked at the contracts and come to the obvious conclusion "what a giant waste of money".
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]And switch thrower?
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    You got me... 

    ...remember Greg Harris? (Wasn't he the pitcher that wanted to try and throw left-handed?)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from clff. Show clff's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    That's Greg Allen Harris, and the Red Sox would not allow him to do it but Montreal did let him try it in one game--September 28, 1995 (nest-to-last game of season).

    from Retrosheet:
    REDS 9TH: HARRIS REPLACED FRASER (PITCHING); R. Sanders grounded out (shortstop to first); Harris pitched left handed; Morris walked; Harris pitched left handed; Taubensee grounded out (catcher to first) [Morris to second]; Boone grounded out (pitcher to first); 0 R, 0 H, 0 E, 1 LOB. Reds 9, Expos 3.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]Does the Sox really have a number one pitcher like Pedro or Curt? Does Lester Or Beckett have the bull dog determination, the heart and sole of a true competitor during the September heat of a pennant race? Beckett did in 2007, but can he do it again? Can he pitch with his nagging injuries and give the Sox 200 plus innings and be a stopper? Can Lester finally be that kind of pitcher? [/QUOTE]

    Boy, I'm so sick and tired of this silly line of thinking.
    How is it that some fools still have doubts about Lester? He's not Roy Halladay, but how greedy can you get?

    Bull-dog determination? He overcame cancer AND won a WS game in the same season.

    Postseason ability? In six career postseason starts, Lester has a 2.35 era, has pitched almost 6.5 innings per start (including his WS start when he had little stamina due to, you know, cancer), and a 1.12 whip. Not good enough for you?

    The heat of the pennant race? Lester is 17-6 with a 3.42 era in September in his career (his third best month overall), and he also has his best strikeout rate in September. AND THAT INCLUDES LAST YEAR'S TERRIBLE SEPTEMBER!

    Last year Lester had a 2.31 era in June, 1.56 era in July, and 2.78 era in August. As of September 10th, he was perhaps on his way to his best season, with a 2.93 era (and as a pitcher who gets better as the season goes along, in a typical Lester year he would have ended with a sub-2.75 era).

    You're telling me because he had a mere THREE START bad stretch (4 innings/4 runs, 7 innings/4 runs, 2.2 innings/8 runs) that all of a sudden he's a bum? Get real. And don't forget, despite the fact that Lester clearly had some mechanical issues, he still gutted out 6 innings and 2 runs in his final start.

    If he's not good enough for you, sorry, you just don't know baseball.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    I'm tired of this "we're so poor" crapola!
    Think of the numerous revenue streams the Sox have.
    NESN, winter hockey, merchandising, MLB TV revenue, year round Fenway tours, concessions, Yawkey Way, selling bricks, and on and on.
    This team should repay fan loyalty by doing whatever it takes to bring in a closer, a starter and a right handed bat.
    Stop the insulting "woe is us" garbage.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    I know it rivals Phillies signing of Dontrelle Willis today...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team. : Boy, I'm so sick and tired of this silly line of thinking. How is it that some fools still have doubts about Lester? He's not Roy Halladay, but how greedy can you get? Bull-dog determination? He overcame cancer AND won a WS game in the same season. Postseason ability? In six career postseason starts, Lester has a 2.35 era, has pitched almost 6.5 innings per start (including his WS start when he had little stamina due to, you know, cancer), and a 1.12 whip. Not good enough for you? The heat of the pennant race? Lester is 17-6 with a 3.42 era in September in his career (his third best month overall), and he also has his best strikeout rate in September. AND THAT INCLUDES LAST YEAR'S TERRIBLE SEPTEMBER! Last year Lester had a 2.31 era in June, 1.56 era in July, and 2.78 era in August. As of September 10th, he was perhaps on his way to his best season, with a 2.93 era (and as a pitcher who gets better as the season goes along, in a typical Lester year he would have ended with a sub-2.75 era). You're telling me because he had a mere THREE START bad stretch (4 innings/4 runs, 7 innings/4 runs, 2.2 innings/8 runs) that all of a sudden he's a bum? Get real. And don't forget, despite the fact that Lester clearly had some mechanical issues, he still gutted out 6 innings and 2 runs in his final start. If he's not good enough for you, sorry, you just don't know baseball .
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]

    Well said!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]I'm tired of this "we're so poor" crapola! Think of the numerous revenue streams the Sox have. NESN, winter hockey, merchandising, MLB TV revenue, year round Fenway tours, concessions, Yawkey Way, selling bricks, and on and on. This team should repay fan loyalty by doing whatever it takes to bring in a closer, a starter and a right handed bat. Stop the insulting "woe is us" garbage.
    Posted by GhostofTito[/QUOTE]

    Have you studied the Forbes magazine annual analysis on the wealth, revenue, payroll, and operating profit of each team in MLB?  Are you aware of their outstanding debt on the purchase of the Park? One should be aware of their financial status before making statements that appear to be 100 percent opinion. Are you aware that the YES market is six times larger than NESN's? The Yankees revenues are in a league of their own. Do your homework before sounding off.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team. : Have you studied the Forbes magazine annual analysis on the wealth, revenue, payroll, and operating profit of each team in MLB?  Are you aware of their outstanding debt on the purchase of the Park? One should be aware of their financial status before making statements that appear to be 100 percent opinion. Are you aware that the YES market is six times larger than NESN's? The Yankees revenues are in a league of their own. Do your homework before sounding off.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    Talking to GhostofTito is like taking to, well... a ghost.

    Yeah, Henry has loads of cash, but he's already waisted tens of millions doing just what ghost wants him to do again. Even multi-millionaries have limits.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    They just don't spend to spend.  They got Crawford because they had no idea Ellsbury would return and come anywhere close to the year he had.  (I don't think they even projected him to be that good in their wildest hallucinations)  So are you going break the bank on Beltran or Oswalt?  No way.  Especially after the Yanks put together their staff in the late winter.  They are simply being smarter. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    Sox are stuck with some bad contracts. That is causing the problem , and it will continue to do so for a while.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    Yes, they are STUCK with the Crawford contract if one makes the illogical assumption that he is going to repeat last year's performance for the rest of the contract. Lackey might improve post surgery ( nobody knows for sure unless they are psychic).
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    The Red Sox WILL have one of baseball's highest payrolls, they spend plenty every year, and they win every year (even if they don't quite win enough some years). How are they being "cheap"?

    The next level up is Yankee-level spending, and it's pretty clear the Red Sox can't handle that. In an attempt to show some degree of fiscal responsibility, the Sox want to not hit the luxury threshold this year, in order to drop the luxury percentage it in future years (which would also allow more spending in those years).

    Considering that the team was doing quite well until the September collapse, what's the problem with taking almost the same group, dropping below the luxury threshold, and trusting that new coaching can get these guys to play to their potential?

    If it works, we get a WS contender that is financially set up for years to come (and the Sox might even be able to keep Ellsbury long-term!). If it doesn't work, the team will contend for the playoffs but fall short, and the Sox are still set up well for the future. Makes sense to me...then again, I'm not part of the group of Sox fans who have been spoiled and have morphed into Yankee-fan clones (who demand a championship every year).

    I actually like having some years as a favorite and some years as a bit of an underdog, as long as we don't end up back in the 1993 or so state of the team. Anyone remember those days? Let's appreciate how much better things are!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]The Red Sox WILL have one of baseball's highest payrolls, they spend plenty every year, and they win every year (even if they don't quite win enough some years). How are they being "cheap"? The next level up is Yankee-level spending, and it's pretty clear the Red Sox can't handle that. In an attempt to show some degree of fiscal responsibility, the Sox want to not hit the luxury threshold this year, in order to drop the luxury percentage it in future years (which would also allow more spending in those years). Considering that the team was doing quite well until the September collapse, what's the problem with taking almost the same group, dropping below the luxury threshold, and trusting that new coaching can get these guys to play to their potential? If it works, we get a WS contender that is financially set up for years to come (and the Sox might even be able to keep Ellsbury long-term!). If it doesn't work, the team will contend for the playoffs but fall short, and the Sox are still set up well for the future. Makes sense to me...then again, I'm not part of the group of Sox fans who have been spoiled and have morphed into Yankee-fan clones (who demand a championship every year). I actually like having some years as a favorite and some years as a bit of an underdog, as long as we don't end up back in the 1993 or so state of the team. Anyone remember those days? Let's appreciate how much better things are!
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]

    Stick around. The forum needs more intelligent people like you. Lately it has become a whiners fraternity.


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jh13. Show jh13's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    I'm actually loving the lack of throwing money around.  The past few years have been pretty sickening as players were signed for big bucks but didn't do jack.  Sox got away from smart baseball and started to act like kids in the candy store and now the sugar rush is over.

    Payroll is already at 170 mil and if your going to whine about them not spending enough, go find a NY board.  Seriously, most posters here are posting like Yankees fans.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]I'm actually loving the lack of throwing money around.  The past few years have been pretty sickening as players were signed for big bucks but didn't do jack.  Sox got away from smart baseball and started to act like kids in the candy store and now the sugar rush is over. Payroll is already at 170 mil and if your going to whine about them not spending enough, go find a NY board.  Seriously, most posters here are posting like Yankees fans.
    Posted by jh13[/QUOTE]

    Yup.  September made baby cry, so give her the big-money pacifier.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team. : Boy, I'm so sick and tired of this silly line of thinking. How is it that some fools still have doubts about Lester? He's not Roy Halladay, but how greedy can you get? Bull-dog determination? He overcame cancer AND won a WS game in the same season. Postseason ability? In six career postseason starts, Lester has a 2.35 era, has pitched almost 6.5 innings per start (including his WS start when he had little stamina due to, you know, cancer), and a 1.12 whip. Not good enough for you? The heat of the pennant race? Lester is 17-6 with a 3.42 era in September in his career (his third best month overall), and he also has his best strikeout rate in September. AND THAT INCLUDES LAST YEAR'S TERRIBLE SEPTEMBER! Last year Lester had a 2.31 era in June, 1.56 era in July, and 2.78 era in August. As of September 10th, he was perhaps on his way to his best season, with a 2.93 era (and as a pitcher who gets better as the season goes along, in a typical Lester year he would have ended with a sub-2.75 era). You're telling me because he had a mere THREE START bad stretch (4 innings/4 runs, 7 innings/4 runs, 2.2 innings/8 runs) that all of a sudden he's a bum? Get real. And don't forget, despite the fact that Lester clearly had some mechanical issues, he still gutted out 6 innings and 2 runs in his final start. If he's not good enough for you, sorry, you just don't know baseball .
    Posted by redsoxu571[/QUOTE]


    Great post...thank you
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.

    In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Do you think it's right? The Red Sox ownership this winter is acting like a small market team. : Yup.  September made baby cry, so give her the big-money pacifier.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    WaaaaAAAAhhhhh! Wah! Wah! WaaaAAAAaHHHHHHh!!!!

     

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