Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leftfielder61. Show Leftfielder61's posts

    Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    I saw this rumored on another website. What do you think? He is only 26 and under control for 4 years with an additional 2 years of club options. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    Although his ERA went up in 2012, his WHIP has declined every year of his career to 1.221 this year. His K/BB ratio has also improved for 2 straight years. He allowed 0-3 ERs in 20 of 27 starts this year, including 7 of his final 8 starts and 4 or less in 9 of hus final 10. He's 3-0 with a 3.79 ERA in the playoffs-career. His contract is a huge plus, so there is no way the Rangers trade him straight up for 1 year of Ellsbury and a possible comp draft pick when Ellsbury bolts after 2013....

    13:$3.2M, 14:$5.4M, 15:$7.4M, 16:$10M, 17:$11M club option ($1.5M buyout), 18:$11.5M club option ($1M buyout)

    I'd give Ellsbury and Aceves for Holland.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leftfielder61. Show Leftfielder61's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Although his ERA went up in 2012, his WHIP has declined every year of his career to 1.221 this year. His K/BB ratio has also improved for 2 straight years. He allowed 0-3 ERs in 20 of 27 starts this year, including 7 of his final 8 starts and 4 or less in 9 of hus final 10. He's 3-0 with a 3.79 ERA in the playoffs-career. His contract is a huge plus, so there is no way the Rangers trade him straight up for 1 year of Ellsbury and a possible comp draft pick when Ellsbury bolts after 2013....

    13:$3.2M, 14:$5.4M, 15:$7.4M, 16:$10M, 17:$11M club option ($1.5M buyout), 18:$11.5M club option ($1M buyout)

    I'd give Ellsbury and Aceves for Holland.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would do that too. I wonder if we could expand it out with Lester and a prospect to get Andrus included.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to Leftfielder61's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Although his ERA went up in 2012, his WHIP has declined every year of his career to 1.221 this year. His K/BB ratio has also improved for 2 straight years. He allowed 0-3 ERs in 20 of 27 starts this year, including 7 of his final 8 starts and 4 or less in 9 of hus final 10. He's 3-0 with a 3.79 ERA in the playoffs-career. His contract is a huge plus, so there is no way the Rangers trade him straight up for 1 year of Ellsbury and a possible comp draft pick when Ellsbury bolts after 2013....

    13:$3.2M, 14:$5.4M, 15:$7.4M, 16:$10M, 17:$11M club option ($1.5M buyout), 18:$11.5M club option ($1M buyout)

    I'd give Ellsbury and Aceves for Holland.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would do that too. I wonder if we could expand it out with Lester and a prospect to get Andrus included.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ellsbury AND Lester...outstanding...when I believe Lester to be a better pitcher than Holland...

    ...Sox fans either value Sox players too high or too low...

    ...if you trade Ellsbury to Texas get Andrus or forget about it. If the Rangers rather send Profar that's fine too.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    Holland is maybe the ceiling of wht you can hope for in an Ellsbury trade, but I really doubt thi deal makes much sense for Texas.   Yes, thay have to replace Hamilton, but they haven't even replaced CJ Wilson yet.   And really, when it comes to repalcng Hamilton, Ellsbury is noithing more than settling.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leftfielder61. Show Leftfielder61's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    Ellsbury AND Lester...outstanding...when I believe Lester to be a better pitcher than Holland...

    ...Sox fans either value Sox players too high or too low...

    ...if you trade Ellsbury to Texas get Andrus or forget about it. If the Rangers rather send Profar that's fine too.

    [/QUOTE]

    With all due respect I understand Profar is a great PROSPECT with a high upside, I would prefer Andrus who is a PROVEN major leaguer with 4 years of experience and success and his only 24. Also he better fills the RedSox need for a leadoff hitter if Ellsbury is gone.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    Although his ERA went up in 2012, his WHIP has declined every year of his career to 1.221 this year. His K/BB ratio has also improved for 2 straight years. He allowed 0-3 ERs in 20 of 27 starts this year, including 7 of his final 8 starts and 4 or less in 9 of hus final 10. He's 3-0 with a 3.79 ERA in the playoffs-career. His contract is a huge plus, so there is no way the Rangers trade him straight up for 1 year of Ellsbury and a possible comp draft pick when Ellsbury bolts after 2013....

    13:$3.2M, 14:$5.4M, 15:$7.4M, 16:$10M, 17:$11M club option ($1.5M buyout), 18:$11.5M club option ($1M buyout)

    I'd give Ellsbury and Aceves for Holland.

     


    I would do that too. I wonder if we could expand it out with Lester and a prospect to get Andrus included.



     

    I'd offer Lester, Ellsbury, Aceves, Aviles, and let them choose between prospect SS's Iggy, Vinicio or Lin for Holland and Andrus.

    However, we'd need to improve our staff with other moves to be worth it. We could also move Bogaerts to 1B or OF sooner rather than the inevitable later.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Leftfielder61. Show Leftfielder61's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Although his ERA went up in 2012, his WHIP has declined every year of his career to 1.221 this year. His K/BB ratio has also improved for 2 straight years. He allowed 0-3 ERs in 20 of 27 starts this year, including 7 of his final 8 starts and 4 or less in 9 of hus final 10. He's 3-0 with a 3.79 ERA in the playoffs-career. His contract is a huge plus, so there is no way the Rangers trade him straight up for 1 year of Ellsbury and a possible comp draft pick when Ellsbury bolts after 2013....

    13:$3.2M, 14:$5.4M, 15:$7.4M, 16:$10M, 17:$11M club option ($1.5M buyout), 18:$11.5M club option ($1M buyout)

    I'd give Ellsbury and Aceves for Holland.

     


    I would do that too. I wonder if we could expand it out with Lester and a prospect to get Andrus included.



     

    I'd offer Lester, Ellsbury, Aceves, Aviles, and let them choose between prospect SS's Iggy, Vinicio or Lin for Holland and Andrus.

    However, we'd need to improve our staff with other moves to be worth it. We could also move Bogaerts to 1B or OF sooner rather than the inevitable later.

    [/QUOTE]

    Let's MAKE that deal!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to Leftfielder61's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I saw this rumored on another website. What do you think? He is only 26 and under control for 4 years with an additional 2 years of club options. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Holland gave up 32 long balls last season and also has problems with control at times.  His age and years of control may be worth the risk but I'm not sure he would improve our rotaion that much. 

    It may be a good start but not the answer!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    Holland is just another mediocre pitcher.  Put that 4.67 ERA in Fenway and it will go up over 5.00.  We have to do better than that.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    Holland gave up 32 long balls last season and also has problems with control at times.  His age and years of control may be worth the risk but I'm not sure he would improve our rotaion that much. 

    It may be a good start but not the answer!

    [/QUOTE]

    With the current group of starters, if Lester can return to his form of prior year along with Buch finally putting together a full healthy season and Doubrant being Doubrant, a reliable 4-5th starter Holland would be a nice addition to fill the 4-5 starter spot but Andrus would have to be part of the deal to shore up the SS position for now. What else the Sox would throw in to balance off the trade I'm not sure unless it's a future very high prospect or two. 

    I'm a fan of Ells and would hate to see him go !!

    Hetch

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    Unless Elles were to bring in an Ace type pitcher we should keep him until all*star break. At that point he is playing well or not, the team is in contention or not, and depending on the situation he could be very very valuable.

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Holland is just another mediocre pitcher.  Put that 4.67 ERA in Fenway and it will go up over 5.00.  We have to do better than that.

    [/QUOTE]


    He has a career 2.89 ERA in Fenway.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Although his ERA went up in 2012, his WHIP has declined every year of his career to 1.221 this year. His K/BB ratio has also improved for 2 straight years. He allowed 0-3 ERs in 20 of 27 starts this year, including 7 of his final 8 starts and 4 or less in 9 of hus final 10. He's 3-0 with a 3.79 ERA in the playoffs-career. His contract is a huge plus, so there is no way the Rangers trade him straight up for 1 year of Ellsbury and a possible comp draft pick when Ellsbury bolts after 2013....

    13:$3.2M, 14:$5.4M, 15:$7.4M, 16:$10M, 17:$11M club option ($1.5M buyout), 18:$11.5M club option ($1M buyout)

    I'd give Ellsbury and Aceves for Holland.

     


    I would do that too. I wonder if we could expand it out with Lester and a prospect to get Andrus included.



     

    I'd offer Lester, Ellsbury, Aceves, Aviles, and let them choose between prospect SS's Iggy, Vinicio or Lin for Holland and Andrus.

    However, we'd need to improve our staff with other moves to be worth it. We could also move Bogaerts to 1B or OF sooner rather than the inevitable later.

    [/QUOTE]


    Too late. Aviles is headed to Toronto for Farrell...Thats way too much anyway

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Holland is just another mediocre pitcher.  Put that 4.67 ERA in Fenway and it will go up over 5.00.  We have to do better than that.

    [/QUOTE]


    He has a career 2.89 ERA in Fenway.

    [/QUOTE]

    How many games is that ?  You like to use the " small sample size " thing when it suits your purpose, but disregard it when it does not.  I think my point is clear. If this guy had a high ERA before, it figures to get higher in Fenway. Do you dispute that ?  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Holland is just another mediocre pitcher.  Put that 4.67 ERA in Fenway and it will go up over 5.00.  We have to do better than that.

    [/QUOTE]


    He has a career 2.89 ERA in Fenway.

    [/QUOTE]

    How many games is that ?  You like to use the " small sample size " thing when it suits your purpose, but disregard it when it does not.  I think my point is clear. If this guy had a high ERA before, it figures to get higher in Fenway. Do you dispute that ?  

    [/QUOTE]

    Fenway is a hitters park like Arlington is...numbers should be similar IMO...

    Hes got a good contract, but will we get another 4+ERA guy who gives up 30 bombs a year? 26, 22, 32 scares me a little. That and being a LHP in Fenway. Holland isnt a power pitcher. He sits in the low 90's and every once in a while dials it up to about 95. If his "stuff" is off, he gets lit up. And being in Fenway wouldnt help...

    If I did look to get him I certainly would not say names like Lester...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Holland is just another mediocre pitcher.  Put that 4.67 ERA in Fenway and it will go up over 5.00.  We have to do better than that.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    [/QUOTE]

    How many games is that ?  You like to use the " small sample size " thing when it suits your purpose, but disregard it when it does not.  I think my point is clear. If this guy had a high ERA before, it figures to get higher in Fenway. Do you dispute that ?  

    [/QUOTE]


    It's 18 IP. A very small sample size- true enough.

    How does it "suit my purpose"?

    I could care less if we got Holland or not. (I want Andrus.)

    He has a career 2.89 ERA in Fenway.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Holland is just another mediocre pitcher.  Put that 4.67 ERA in Fenway and it will go up over 5.00.  We have to do better than that.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    [/QUOTE]

    How many games is that ?  You like to use the " small sample size " thing when it suits your purpose, but disregard it when it does not.  I think my point is clear. If this guy had a high ERA before, it figures to get higher in Fenway. Do you dispute that ?  

    [/QUOTE]


    It's 18 IP. A very small sample size- true enough.

    How does it "suit my purpose"?

    I could care less if we got Holland or not. (I want Andrus.)

    He has a career 2.89 ERA in Fenway.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Id like to see how hes faired again other teams though. He could stink against most other good teams and still be good against us which does us no good. Could you do a small breakdown with teams like NYY, O's, TB, Tigers, LAA, M's, A's, CWS

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Ellsbury for Derek Holland?

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Although his ERA went up in 2012, his WHIP has declined every year of his career to 1.221 this year. His K/BB ratio has also improved for 2 straight years. He allowed 0-3 ERs in 20 of 27 starts this year, including 7 of his final 8 starts and 4 or less in 9 of hus final 10. He's 3-0 with a 3.79 ERA in the playoffs-career. His contract is a huge plus, so there is no way the Rangers trade him straight up for 1 year of Ellsbury and a possible comp draft pick when Ellsbury bolts after 2013....

    13:$3.2M, 14:$5.4M, 15:$7.4M, 16:$10M, 17:$11M club option ($1.5M buyout), 18:$11.5M club option ($1M buyout)

    I'd give Ellsbury and Aceves for Holland.

    [/QUOTE]


    That's very generous of you Moonslav but the Rangers wouldn't take that either and you know it.   Aceves' value is pretty much in the gutter right now.  It would take Ells and a young pitching prospect in my opinion.  One thing I'm sure of though.  The longer we hold on to Ellsbury the less we're going to get for him if we wait until the trade deadline.  I think they have to see if they can resign him to a long contract if they really want to keep him.   If he takes Boras' advice and waits until later we need to find a buyer for him as quickly as possible so we don't wind up getting dimed on the dollar for him.

     

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     

Share