Francona again

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Francona again

    This won't make Francona lovers  happy, but, last night's game[and many other games,actually most games] are a prime example of Terry's lack of good managerial  sense.

    Again  he is not the greaest manager in Sox history, but being in the right spot and having great player's will make just about anyone a canaditate for the title of Best Manager Ever.

    Last night knowing Felix Hernandez would be on the mound, the Sox would not have Youkilis available, He chose to play Scurato instead of Lowrie[a left hand bat against the right hander], now I know it will be pointed out that Scurato had a triple[a ball that should have caught], again chose to catch Veritek, it seems Francona must get Tek in every  other day, I thought Salty was the regular, but it seems we are using Salty every other day, [just have to play Tek].

    Francona seems to treat his lineups like this is Little League baseball, as he seems to think everyone must play so much a week.

    What is wrong with playing  Lowrie and Salty most days? They are the two better player's at SS AND CATCHER.

    Look Francona is a great guy and a stablizing force on the Sox, but is not a good field manager. Today will have to suffer thru another game of trying to get Wakefield his 200th win and again it will not be pretty.

    So go ahead Francona lover's and pink hat's and tell again about Francona's  great maganerial abilities.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Francona again

    If Francona hadn't given up the five runs in the first inning then the end result would have been different. Great going Francoma!!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Francona again

    Am I a pink hat if I point out that Scutaro's career numbers against RH pitchers are 271/334/381 and Lowrie's are 213/295/345?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Francona again

    Playball and Hfx, stop it!! your making too much sense for crying out loud!!
    Afterall, its in spite of Francona that they win and his fault when they lose..common sense does not come into play..
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In Response to Re: Francona again:
    [QUOTE]Playball and Hfx, stop it!! your making too much sense for crying out loud!! Afterall, its in spite of Francona that they win and his fault when they lose..common sense does not come into play..
    Posted by southpaw777[/QUOTE]

    I could never understand the phrase "COMMON SENSE" since "SENSE" is not all that "COMMON", especially here!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In Response to Re: Francona again:
    [QUOTE]Am I a pink hat if I point out that Scutaro's career numbers against RH pitchers are 271/334/381 and Lowrie's are 213/295/345?
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]


    Well, I guess we've seen the last of the OP on this thread. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: Francona again

    Keep it up Francona lover's, isn't it just great. best manager ever, really forever.
     
    Good guy, just not a great manager. 

    I don't just get on and blame Francona after a loss, but his lack of managing skills are evident, even to those who think he is great, and yes I agree the Sox will make the playoff's in spite of Terry. You see having good player's arounf you make you look good, even a winner.  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Francona again

    The thing is, peanut, you submarined yourself by having no clue about Lowrie's bad numbers against RH pitching.  If you don't know something as basic as that, it puts you in a pretty bad position to be criticizing the manager.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In Response to Re: Francona again:
    [QUOTE]Keep it up Francona lover's, isn't it just great. best manager ever, really forever.   Good guy, just not a great manager.  I don't just get on and blame Francona after a loss, but his lack of managing skills are evident, even to those who think he is great, and yes I agree the Sox will make the playoff's in spite of Terry. You see having good player's arounf you make you look good, even a winner.  
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]

    Not to sound like an apologist "BUT" in order for the statement(s) to have any merit at all it must be substantiated with some semblance of evidence or at the very least, a graphical comparison against any past Red Sox Manager that you may deem as "GREAT".

    I'll be waiting for the writer's complete analysis. Until such time as the assignment is complete the OP will remain in my "TOOL" shed.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from peanutandme. Show peanutandme's posts

    Re: Francona again

    Well if as some say Lowrie is not a good hitter against RH pitching, then why does Francona play him against righthander's at all? Why not just hit him lefthanded all the time? I have seen many times on this board that people wish or want Lowrie in their every day, not sharing the job with Scurato. Can't have it both ways, either Lowrie is the full time SS or Scurto is. Which is it?

    Now I consider Joe Cronin a great manager, he did not have any pitching to speak of other side of one or two  pitcher's.

    Dick  Williams I believe was a great manager, as he took the 67 Sox to the WS, as he did with other teams.

    Ralph  Houk was a excellent baseball manager and was very good with the the Sox. Again he did not have the talent that Francona enjoys, but was a very good manager. One thing Williams and Houk had that I wish Francona had was the ability to go after a umpire if he thought they had screwed up a call, and showed their player's they weren't afraid to stir things up a bit.

    Now should a manager be combative all the time, certainly not, but should also be willingly to show his player's he is in their fighting for them, and willingly to make a point when necessary. Francona very seldom questions a call, and then when he does it is not a very good arguement that he put's up,

    Look as I have stated many times before, I like Terry as a baseball man and he is good to his player's, but he is not a good between the lines manager.  If Grady Little had not screwed up in 03, Francona would never have got his chance in Boston, and he came into a winning situation. Even Terry could not screw that up.

    Francona was not a great manager in Philadelphia, just as Joe Torre was a very average manager in the NL, but when he went to the Yankee's with all that payroll and talent he became a great manager.  Like Casey Stengel, he again was a average manager for years, but when he went to the Yankee's with their great pitching and great player's at most positions, he became a HOF manager.

    I am not knocking Francona for taking advantage of what was given him, he saw a great opportunity and took full advantage of it like anyone would do, but again like the manager's I just mentioned, the situation gave him the opportunity to become in people's eyes a great manager, and if he stays here, he could possibly end up a HOF'er, and he should[and probably does]thank the good lord for his opportunity. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Francona again

    Fascinating OP and of course dead wrong.  The Sox lost because their presumptive ace Beckett gave up 5 runs in the first inning while facing Felix Hernandez, last year's Cy Young award winner and still a very good pitcher. 

    A terrific comeback in the 6th based on two dingers, a triple by Scutaro, and a bunt single by of all people Adrian Gonzalez.  But it wasn't enough.

    Meanwhile in the 4th inning the Sox had men on 1st and 3d with no one out and AGon coming to bat and still couldn't score.  Agon hits a weak grounder to first followed by Pedroia's weak fly out to right field followed by a terrific throw by Ichiro which nailed Ellsbury at the plate.  And all of that was Francona's fault?  Wow.  What insight by peanutandme. 

    With Hernandez on the mound, it is hard for me to envision Lowrie getting the triple that Scutaro got or any hit for that matter.  He is at his best hitting from the right side.  As for Varitek, he has caught every single game Beckett has pitched this year, and this has been a very good year for Beckett.  That Beckett was able to recover and pitch scoreless ball in his remaining innings just might have been the result of Tek's steadying influence.

    This OP is another example of how the boo birds can blame any loss--and all losses--on the manager.   Thus is Beckett's disastrous first inning--for which he castigated himself after the game--totally ignored.  Thus is King Felix starting for the Mariners ignored.  Ditto the semi-disastrous top of fourth. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In Response to Francona again:
    [QUOTE]This won't make Francona lovers  happy, but, last night's game[and many other games,actually most games] are a prime example of Terry's lack of good managerial  sense. Again  he is not the greaest manager in Sox history, but being in the right spot and having great player's will make just about anyone a canaditate for the title of Best Manager Ever. Last night knowing Felix Hernandez would be on the mound, the Sox would not have Youkilis available, He chose to play Scurato instead of Lowrie[a left hand bat against the right hander], now I know it will be pointed out that Scurato had a triple[a ball that should have caught], again chose to catch Veritek, it seems Francona must get Tek in every  other day, I thought Salty was the regular, but it seems we are using Salty every other day, [just have to play Tek]. Francona seems to treat his lineups like this is Little League baseball, as he seems to think everyone must play so much a week. What is wrong with playing  Lowrie and Salty most days? They are the two better player's at SS AND CATCHER. Look Francona is a great guy and a stablizing force on the Sox, but is not a good field manager. Today will have to suffer thru another game of trying to get Wakefield his 200th win and again it will not be pretty. So go ahead Francona lover's and pink hat's and tell again about Francona's  great maganerial abilities.
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]

    If he is such a lousy Manager, how did the Red Soz manage to win 89 games last year despite an injury riddled season that would have crippled most teams and put most under .500.  I'm not a Francona lover or a Pink Hat, what ever that stupid term refers to, but looking at what Francona has done in his years with the Sox, if not the best he does a damn good job. As for being in the right place at the right time, that type of logic is pure lunacy. It's the Manager who makes it the right place at the right time with the players given.

    Hetchinspete.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jidgef. Show jidgef's posts

    Re: Francona again

    Peanut, your original point, besides simply wanting to bash Tito, was to take umbrage with his using Scutaro over Lowrie although the facts screwed up that flawed argument, and to play Tek over Salty. I have never been a fan of the personal catcher situation, but indeed Tek has become Beckett's personal catcher. Perhaps in the midst of missing the facts regarding Scutaro/Lowrie, you also missed the starting pitcher last night. I know it shouldn't but it continues to amaze me how totally fickle some Red Sox fans are that they come out of the woodwork to bash whenever we lose a game. We were not destined to go 162-0 this season and we still have the second best record in all of baseball, apparently in spite of our inept field manager. 

    You really went out on a limb when you pointed out that good players make for good managers by the way. Every manager you mention as being a good manager had bad seasons when they did not have good players, so what makes tito any different? 

    Oh and by the way, your third grade teacher would be rolling over in her grave if she read how badly you butcher the language.Undecided
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In Response to Re: Francona again:
    [QUOTE]Well if as some say Lowrie is not a good hitter against RH pitching, then why does Francona play him against righthander's at all? Why not just hit him lefthanded all the time? I have seen many times on this board that people wish or want Lowrie in their every day, not sharing the job with Scurato. Can't have it both ways, either Lowrie is the full time SS or Scurto is. Which is it? Now I consider Joe Cronin a great manager, he did not have any pitching to speak of other side of one or two  pitcher's. Dick  Williams I believe was a great manager, as he took the 67 Sox to the WS, as he did with other teams. Ralph  Houk was a excellent baseball manager and was very good with the the Sox. Again he did not have the talent that Francona enjoys, but was a very good manager. One thing Williams and Houk had that I wish Francona had was the ability to go after a umpire if he thought they had screwed up a call, and showed their player's they weren't afraid to stir things up a bit. Now should a manager be combative all the time, certainly not, but should also be willingly to show his player's he is in their fighting for them, and willingly to make a point when necessary. Francona very seldom questions a call, and then when he does it is not a very good arguement that he put's up, Look as I have stated many times before, I like Terry as a baseball man and he is good to his player's, but he is not a good between the lines manager.  If Grady Little had not screwed up in 03, Francona would never have got his chance in Boston, and he came into a winning situation. Even Terry could not screw that up. Francona was not a great manager in Philadelphia, just as Joe Torre was a very average manager in the NL, but when he went to the Yankee's with all that payroll and talent he became a great manager.  Like Casey Stengel, he again was a average manager for years, but when he went to the Yankee's with their great pitching and great player's at most positions, he became a HOF manager. I am not knocking Francona for taking advantage of what was given him, he saw a great opportunity and took full advantage of it like anyone would do, but again like the manager's I just mentioned, the situation gave him the opportunity to become in people's eyes a great manager, and if he stays here, he could possibly end up a HOF'er, and he should[and probably does]thank the good lord for his opportunity. 
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]  D W  &  R H WERE FROM DAYS GONE BYE.....  YOU NEED TO GET A GRIP ON WHAT MOTIVATE$  TODAY$ PLAYER$ AND AS MUCH AS TITO DOES NOT MANAGE TO THE  T-BALLERS PLAYBOOK ,HE RUNS A WELL-OILED CLOSE-KNIT CLUB HOUSE AND HAS THE RESPECT OF THE ENTIRE TEAM & ORGANIZATION !!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Francona again

    We scored 4 runs on a day that King Felix was pitching, the lineup wasn't the problem it was the performance by Josh Beckett. Considering Beckett has been consistently excellent all year, I can forgive and forget a bad outing. Last night's loss wasn't Francona's fault, its hard for any lineup to win against the M's when their pitching gives up 5 runs in the first inning. Let's not forget the M's are bad because of a non-existant offense, not because of bad pitching.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Francona again

    Varitek is Beckett's regular catcher. The pitcher has been among the top 5 starters in the AL this season. The Cy Young leader got torched yesterday-Weaver-for 8 ER. Not sure what you expect. He fell behind 5-0, team nearly pulled off a rally and lost 5-4. It's called baseball. Enjoy.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: Francona again

    dude, tek always catches becktt
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Francona again

    Could Peanut man be Bosox1941?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Francona again

    What is wrong with playing  Lowrie and Salty most days? They are the two better player's at SS AND CATCHER. 

    This is kind of where you go wrong.

    Salty does play most days.  He's started 69, and Tek has started 49.

    The next thing to consider is that it's possible that Tito wants to keep Salty fresh for the playoffs.  He's never started more than 83 games, and started a whole lot less,

    The final, and most important is that you are making a wild assumption that Lowrie is a better SS than Scutaro.  There is no evidence to support that.  What evidence does exist supports Scutaro being better.  He has a better OPS, is a much better fielder, And Scutaro is the hotter player.

    It doesn't really look like you did a lot of research to come to your conclusions, imo.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In Response to Francona again:
    [QUOTE]This won't make Francona lovers  happy, but, last night's game[and many other games,actually most games] are a prime example of Terry's lack of good managerial  sense. Again  he is not the greaest manager in Sox history, but being in the right spot and having great player's will make just about anyone a canaditate for the title of Best Manager Ever. Last night knowing Felix Hernandez would be on the mound, the Sox would not have Youkilis available, He chose to play Scurato instead of Lowrie[a left hand bat against the right hander], now I know it will be pointed out that Scurato had a triple[a ball that should have caught], again chose to catch Veritek, it seems Francona must get Tek in every  other day, I thought Salty was the regular, but it seems we are using Salty every other day, [just have to play Tek]. Francona seems to treat his lineups like this is Little League baseball, as he seems to think everyone must play so much a week. What is wrong with playing  Lowrie and Salty most days? They are the two better player's at SS AND CATCHER. Look Francona is a great guy and a stablizing force on the Sox, but is not a good field manager. Today will have to suffer thru another game of trying to get Wakefield his 200th win and again it will not be pretty. So go ahead Francona lover's and pink hat's and tell again about Francona's  great maganerial abilities.
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]

    Do you do even the most basic research before you post or are you just a loose cannon saying the first thing that comes to mind?  Did it ever occur to you that the organization has stats and info you don't have?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Francona again

    This won't make Francona lovers  happy, but, last night's game[and many other games,actually most games] are a prime example of Terry's lack of good managerial  sense.

    Again  he is not the greaest manager in Sox history, but being in the right spot and having great player's will make just about anyone a canaditate for the title of Best Manager Ever.

    Last night knowing Felix Hernandez would be on the mound, the Sox would not have Youkilis available, He chose to play Scurato instead of Lowrie[a left hand bat against the right hander], now I know it will be pointed out that Scurato had a triple[a ball that should have caught], again chose to catch Veritek, it seems Francona must get Tek in every  other day, I thought Salty was the regular, but it seems we are using Salty every other day, [just have to play Tek]

    Jed vs Scutty:
    1) Lowrie could have played 3B for Aviles, so it was not just about Lowrie vs Scutty.
    2) Lowrie does not hit Felix well. He was 1 for 9 before last night (.222 OPS).
    3) Aviles was 5 for 11 (1.000 OPS) vs Felix.
    4) Scutaro was 8 for 31 (.636 OPS) vs Felix
    5) Lowrie's splits vs RHPs are horrible: career .638/2011: .569. Scutaro is always about even vs RHPs and LHPs and in the low .700's in OPS. Aviles is a career .704 vs RHPs..

    VTek vs Salty:
    1) VTek always catches Beckett. Beckett has a long history of doing way better with VTek than anyone else on the Sox. Way way way better.
    2) VTek did hit one hard shot with men on base, but it was caught (2B).

    Francona seems to treat his lineups like this is Little League baseball, as he seems to think, but these  everyone must play so much a week

    I'm just glad you didn't make out the line-up. I mean how funny would it be when you turn in the line-up card with Veritek's name spelled wrong?Aviles and Scutaro went 3 for 6 and Jed was 0 for 1. Look, I have some big issues with Tito, but this is ridiculous. .

    What is wrong with playing  Lowrie and Salty most days? They are the two better player's at SS AND CATCHER

    Lowrie was playing more until he got hurt. Lowrie was slumping badly before he went on the DL. Scutaro has been super hot:
    last 21 games: BA .329
    last 9 games:  BA .355
    As bad as Scutaro is at fielding SS, Lowrie is worse.

    Salty does play more than Varitek. Practically no catcher these days catches over 80% of the games. Tito uses VTek with Beckett. It works.
    As bad as VTek looks throwing to 2B, he is a better overall catcher on the defensive side of the equation. Salty might be a better DH (or hitter vs RHPs only) than VTek, but he is not a better "catcher". 

    Look Francona is a great guy and a stablizing force on the Sox, but is not a good field manager. Today will have to suffer thru another game of trying to get Wakefield his 200th win and again it will not be pretty.

    How is winning 6 of his last 7 starts with 5 of his last 6 starts letting up 3 or less ERs "suffering"?.

    So go ahead Francona lover's and pink hat's and tell again about Francona's  great maganerial abilities.

    I'm no "pink hatter", but I'm no "brown hatter" either. I have serious issues with Tito, but this Monday morning QB'ing is getting absurd. There is no way Lowrie should have started, and if he did, it would have been for Aviles at 3B and not Scutty at SS. You might not believe in a catcher's influence over how a pitcher pitches, but Beckett does extremely better with VTek than Salty as well as with Cash or VMart

    career with...
    VTek   3.67 (.670 OPS against)
    Salty   4.50 (.878)
    VMart  5.48 (.862)
    Cash   6.97 (.947)
    Kottaras 10.32 (1.059)

    Now, if you want to argue about why Crawford plays vs LHPs, I'll be right with you.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In Response to Re: Francona again:
    [QUOTE]Keep it up Francona lover's, isn't it just great. best manager ever, really forever.   Good guy, just not a great manager.  I don't just get on and blame Francona after a loss, but his lack of managing skills are evident, even to those who think he is great, and yes I agree the Sox will make the playoff's in spite of Terry. You see having good player's arounf you make you look good, even a winner.  
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]

    Nice response not responding to the specific facts laid out for you by those more informed than you.  either respond to facts about the numbers or slink back into your hole.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In Response to Francona again:
    [QUOTE]This won't make Francona lovers  happy, but, last night's game[and many other games,actually most games] are a prime example of Terry's lack of good managerial  sense. Again  he is not the greaest manager in Sox history, but being in the right spot and having great player's will make just about anyone a canaditate for the title of Best Manager Ever. Last night knowing Felix Hernandez would be on the mound, the Sox would not have Youkilis available, He chose to play Scurato instead of Lowrie[a left hand bat against the right hander], now I know it will be pointed out that Scurato had a triple[a ball that should have caught], again chose to catch Veritek, it seems Francona must get Tek in every  other day, I thought Salty was the regular, but it seems we are using Salty every other day, [just have to play Tek]. Francona seems to treat his lineups like this is Little League baseball, as he seems to think everyone must play so much a week. What is wrong with playing  Lowrie and Salty most days? They are the two better player's at SS AND CATCHER. Look Francona is a great guy and a stablizing force on the Sox, but is not a good field manager. Today will have to suffer thru another game of trying to get Wakefield his 200th win and again it will not be pretty. So go ahead Francona lover's and pink hat's and tell again about Francona's  great maganerial abilities.
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]

    You are a fickle fan

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In short,

    He didn't bother to look at Jed's splits vs RHPs or that he was 1 for 9 vs Felix.

    He didn't bother to look that Scutaro has been one of our hottest hitters.

    The choice was more between Aviles or Lowrie at 3B, not the SS choice.
      Aviles and Scutty went 3 for 6 and he chooses that choice to bash Tito?

    Beckett does way way way better with VTek than he does with Salty, VMart, Cash, Kottaras, and anyone else on the Sox.

    Now, if you want to bash Tito for starting Crawford vs LHPs, I'm right behind you.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Francona again

    In Response to Re: Francona again:
    [QUOTE]Keep it up Francona lover's, isn't it just great. best manager ever, really forever.   Good guy, just not a great manager.  I don't just get on and blame Francona after a loss, but his lack of managing skills are evident, even to those who think he is great, and yes I agree the Sox will make the playoff's in spite of Terry. You see having good player's arounf you make you look good, even a winner.  
    Posted by peanutandme[/QUOTE]

    His lack of managerial skills are evident only to those whose supposed evidence would never hold up in a court of baseball.
     

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