game 3

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from candre99. Show candre99's posts

    game 3

    why is workman credited with loss in game 3?  kojie put winning run(kraig) on base.

    uehara doesnt even get credit for giving up a run.

    x Player IP H R ER BB K HR BFP Pit B-S ERA OpBA J. Peavy 4.0 6 2 2 1 4 0 19 64 21 - 43 4.50 .353 F. Doubront 2.0 1 0 0 1 0 0 8 25 11 - 14 0.00 .143 C. Breslow 0.0 1 2 2 0 0 0 2 5 2 - 3 54.00 1.000 J. Tazawa 1.0 1 0 0 1 2 0 5 24 13 - 11 0.00 .167 B. Workman, (L 0-1) 1.1 2 1 0 1 1 0 7 30 13 - 17 0.00 .300 K. Uehara 0.1 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 3 0 - 3 0.00 .200   St. Louis Cardinals Player IP H R ER BB K HR BFP Pit B-S ERA   J. Kelly 5.1 2 2 2 3 6 0 21 89 36 - 53 3.38 .111 R. Choate 0.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 4 1 - 3 0.00 .500 S. Maness, (BS 1) 0.2 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 6 2 - 4 0.00 .250 K. Siegrist 1.0 0 0 0 0 1 0 3 8 3 - 5 6.75 .200 C. Martinez, (Hld 2) 0.1 1 2 2 1 0 0 4 20 11 - 9 8.10   T. Rosenthal, (W 1-0, BS 1) 1.2 1 0 0 0 2 0 6 20 3 - 17 0.00 .111   Errors: Bos 2, J. Ellsbury (1), W. Middlebrooks (1).  Double Plays: StL 1, (M.Carpenter to Kozma to Ma.Adams). Stolen Bases: StL 1, K. Wong (1). Hit by Pitch: Bos, S. Victorino by C. Martinez. StL, C. Beltran by C. Breslow.    Umpires: HP--DeMuth, 1B--Emmel, 2B--Miller, 3B--Joyce, LF--Hirschbeck, RF--Wegner. Time: 3:54 Attendance - 47,432 MORE FROM BOSTON.COM MORE FROM THE WEB [Sponsored links] w1 © 2013 by STATS LLC.
    Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of STATS LLC is strictly prohibited.    
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: game 3

    good question

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: game 3

    Maybe because Craig scored on an error ... so, since officially Uehara did not allow a run ... they have to give it to ... hmmm..  anyone???

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: game 3

    OP is right.  Box score is wrong.  Craig hit the double off Uehara and later scored on the error.  Run should count against Uehara, not Workman.  And it's a run, but not an earned run.   And the loss has to go to Uehara as well. 

    But maybe there's a scoring rule we don't know about. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: game 3

    It should really be W: Rosenthal (1-0, 0.00) L: Saltalamacchia (0-1, 0.00) 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    OP is right.  Box score is wrong.  Craig hit the double off Uehara and later scored on the error.  Run should count against Uehara, not Workman.  And it's a run, but not an earned run.   And the loss has to go to Uehara as well. 

    But maybe there's a scoring rule we don't know about. 

    [/QUOTE]

    All box scores i can find give workman the loss.  i am really interested in the rule here.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Maybe because Craig scored on an error ... so, since officially Uehara did not allow a run ... they have to give it to ... hmmm..  anyone???

    [/QUOTE]


    maybe so space

    it's beats whatever I have

    but I think officially Uehara did  allow a run

    even though it was an unearned run

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: game 3

    the sox got an out at home that was workman's runner.  I think this makes it somewhat of a fielder's choice, so the runner that Uehara let get on is transferred to Workman because they did not try to get Craig at third and opted to get the runner at home inititally.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    the sox got an out at home that was workman's runner.  I think this makes it somewhat of a fielder's choice, so the runner that Uehara let get on is transferred to Workman because they did not try to get Craig at third and opted to get the runner at home inititally.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks Greenwell.  I am trying to wrap my mind around this.  Not having much luck.  Will get back to you when I understand.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: game 3

    FC but the play continued so even though the lead runner was erased, the play continued and the folowing runner scored.  if there is no lead runner, the following runner never advances past 3rd base as there would have been no throw home (to get said lead runner) and subsequently no throw to 3rd base (or in this case the outfield).  had the play ended with craig still on third at that point workman would be off the hook.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    FC but the play continued so even though the lead runner was erased, the play continued and the folowing runner scored.  if there is no lead runner, the following runner never advances past 3rd base as there would have been no throw home (to get said lead runner) and subsequently no throw to 3rd base (or in this case the outfield).  had the play ended with craig still on third at that point workman would be off the hook.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ahh, nice clarification Slash.  I get it.  Wow, thought I was a student of the game.  That one play has thrown me back to kindergarten.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: game 3

    Yeah, that makes no sense. Uehara put Craig on.

    I have a good friend who scores Triple A games. I'll ask him.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    FC but the play continued so even though the lead runner was erased, the play continued and the folowing runner scored.  if there is no lead runner, the following runner never advances past 3rd base as there would have been no throw home (to get said lead runner) and subsequently no throw to 3rd base (or in this case the outfield).  had the play ended with craig still on third at that point workman would be off the hook.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think that's quite true.  Even if the play ended with Craig at third, he would be Workman's runner.  Consider the more standard use of the rule.  Reliever comes in with a man on first, gets a fielder's choice to get the inherited runner at 2nd.  The previous pitcher is responsible for the new runner at 1st.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    FC but the play continued so even though the lead runner was erased, the play continued and the folowing runner scored.  if there is no lead runner, the following runner never advances past 3rd base as there would have been no throw home (to get said lead runner) and subsequently no throw to 3rd base (or in this case the outfield).  had the play ended with craig still on third at that point workman would be off the hook.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think that's quite true.  Even if the play ended with Craig at third, he would be Workman's runner.  Consider the more standard use of the rule.  Reliever comes in with a man on first, gets a fielder's choice to get the inherited runner at 2nd.  The previous pitcher is responsible for the new runner at 1st.

    [/QUOTE]

    There we go.  Thank you.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: game 3

    good point.  my mind is blown.  so once koji came in, there was no way he could lose the game.  if a run scored that inning Workman was taking the L.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    good point.  my mind is blown.  so once koji came in, there was no way he could lose the game.  if a run scored that inning Workman was taking the L.

     



    No, the FC out on the lead runner converted Craig, who was Uehara's, to Workman.  There was only one out.  So, if Moline had made an out on the basepaths that wasnt a FC, and Craig scored, Uehara is on the hook.

    Right greenwell?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to slasher9's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    good point.  my mind is blown.  so once koji came in, there was no way he could lose the game.  if a run scored that inning Workman was taking the L.

    [/QUOTE]

    No, the FC out on the lead runner converted Craig, who was Uehara's, to Workman.  There was only one out.  So, if Moline had made an out on the basepaths that wasnt a FC, and Craig scored, Uehara is on the hook.

    Right greenwell?

    [/QUOTE]

    Sounds right to me.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: game 3

    I'm wondering if this is it:

    Let's say Workman didn't give up the single to Molina. So when Uehara gave up the double to Craig, there would have been a runner on second with one out. The infield wouldn't have been in. Jay's grounder would have been a simple 4-3, Molina moves up to third with two out. But since Workman had given up the single to Molina, that led to the craziness at the plate and third.

    Not saying that justifies it ... I still believe Uehara gets the loss and not Workman. But maybe that was the logic the official scorekeeper used.

    PS--Still haven't heard from my friend.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm wondering if this is it:

    Let's say Workman didn't give up the single to Molina. So when Uehara gave up the double to Craig, there would have been a runner on second with one out. The infield wouldn't have been in. Jay's grounder would have been a simple 4-3, Molina moves up to third with two out. But since Workman had given up the single to Molina, that led to the craziness at the plate and third.

    Not saying that justifies it ... I still believe Uehara gets the loss and not Workman. But maybe that was the logic the official scorekeeper used.

    PS--Still haven't heard from my friend.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey Lloyd,

    Did you read the other posts?  I'm pretty sure your friend will tell you exactly what we discussed about the fielder's choice.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:

     

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    I'm wondering if this is it:

    Let's say Workman didn't give up the single to Molina. So when Uehara gave up the double to Craig, there would have been a runner on second with one out. The infield wouldn't have been in. Jay's grounder would have been a simple 4-3, Molina moves up to third with two out. But since Workman had given up the single to Molina, that led to the craziness at the plate and third.

    Not saying that justifies it ... I still believe Uehara gets the loss and not Workman. But maybe that was the logic the official scorekeeper used.

    PS--Still haven't heard from my friend.

     

     

    Hey Lloyd,

    Did you read the other posts?  I'm pretty sure your friend will tell you exactly what we discussed about the fielder's choice.



    Guilty as charged.  Missed the earlier posts.


     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from omaha2010. Show omaha2010's posts

    Re: game 3

    No obscure scoring rule, just stupidity on the "official" scorers. I can't believe it has not been corrected, but I have not seen it corrected yet.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from omaha2010. Show omaha2010's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:

     

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I'm wondering if this is it:

    Let's say Workman didn't give up the single to Molina. So when Uehara gave up the double to Craig, there would have been a runner on second with one out. The infield wouldn't have been in. Jay's grounder would have been a simple 4-3, Molina moves up to third with two out. But since Workman had given up the single to Molina, that led to the craziness at the plate and third.

    Not saying that justifies it ... I still believe Uehara gets the loss and not Workman. But maybe that was the logic the official scorekeeper used.

    PS--Still haven't heard from my friend.

     

     

    Hey Lloyd,

    Did you read the other posts?  I'm pretty sure your friend will tell you exactly what we discussed about the fielder's choice.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Guilty as charged.  Missed the earlier posts.

     


     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from omaha2010. Show omaha2010's posts

    Re: game 3

    In response to omaha2010's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to greenwellforpresident's comment:

     

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     The pitcher is ONLY responsible for the base runners he allowed on. Loss to Uehara

     

    I'm wondering if this is it:

    Let's say Workman didn't give up the single to Molina. So when Uehara gave up the double to Craig, there would have been a runner on second with one out. The infield wouldn't have been in. Jay's grounder would have been a simple 4-3, Molina moves up to third with two out. But since Workman had given up the single to Molina, that led to the craziness at the plate and third.

    Not saying that justifies it ... I still believe Uehara gets the loss and not Workman. But maybe that was the logic the official scorekeeper used.

    PS--Still haven't heard from my friend.

     

     

    Hey Lloyd,

    Did you read the other posts?  I'm pretty sure your friend will tell you exactly what we discussed about the fielder's choice.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Guilty as charged.  Missed the earlier posts.

     


     

    [/QUOTE]


    [/QUOTE]


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from candre99. Show candre99's posts

    Re: game 3

    thank you for all the info, but i still dont see the logic and its driving me crazy

     

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