GM just full of surprises

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    GM just full of surprises

    Cherington "would like to add a pitcher to the rotation". Really Ben? Did you think of that all by yourself? Let's see, we've lost Beckett, Dice-K, and Cook, maybe Ben thinks that one more pitcher gets us back to a 3 man rotation, and then Doubront and Morales can fill the back side.

    I would almost bet my paycheck that the Sox get Liriano as the one pitcher they add. Since Ben is not willing to move any pitching prospects, trading for a #3 or better is not going to be easy. there are some good FA pitchers available. A. Sanchez would be my choice, but if the Tigers want to hang on to him, I bet we could Porcello without having to give away the farm. He's a heck of a lot better than Liriano and what, 5 years younger?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cherington "would like to add a pitcher to the rotation". Really Ben? Did you think of that all by yourself? Let's see, we've lost Beckett, Dice-K, and Cook, maybe Ben thinks that one more pitcher gets us back to a 3 man rotation, and then Doubront and Morales can fill the back side.

    I would almost bet my paycheck that the Sox get Liriano as the one pitcher they add. Since Ben is not willing to move any pitching prospects, trading for a #3 or better is not going to be easy. there are some good FA pitchers available. A. Sanchez would be my choice, but if the Tigers want to hang on to him, I bet we could Porcello without having to give away the farm. He's a heck of a lot better than Liriano and what, 5 years younger?

    [/QUOTE]


    Once again Ike being a tool...

    The Sox only have a 3 man rotation, plus Doubront and Morales....but they're not real...they're a mirage...so it's really not 5 starters.

    Point two, he has determined that Cherington will not trade pitching prospects under no condition, all on his own...did Ben tell you that Ike or did you read this in the funny papers also??

    I'm not discouraging your opinions, but just don't write them like they're facts please...when February comes we'll have a better indication of what Cherington will or will not do.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cherington "would like to add a pitcher to the rotation". Really Ben? Did you think of that all by yourself? Let's see, we've lost Beckett, Dice-K, and Cook, maybe Ben thinks that one more pitcher gets us back to a 3 man rotation, and then Doubront and Morales can fill the back side.

    I would almost bet my paycheck that the Sox get Liriano as the one pitcher they add. Since Ben is not willing to move any pitching prospects, trading for a #3 or better is not going to be easy. there are some good FA pitchers available. A. Sanchez would be my choice, but if the Tigers want to hang on to him, I bet we could Porcello without having to give away the farm. He's a heck of a lot better than Liriano and what, 5 years younger?

    [/QUOTE]


    Once again Ike being a tool...

    The Sox only have a 3 man rotation, plus Doubront and Morales....but they're not real...they're a mirage...so it's really not 5 starters.

    Point two, he has determined that Cherington will not trade pitching prospects under no condition, all on his own...did Ben tell you that Ike or did you read this in the funny papers also??

    I'm not discouraging your opinions, but just don't write them like they're facts please...when February comes we'll have a better indication of what Cherington will or will not do.

    [/QUOTE]

    Read MLBTR. It's all right there. Here's the link in case you don't know how to get there on your own: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/al-east-notes-blue-jays-reynolds-ortiz-red-sox.html

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Read MLBTR. It's all right there. Here's the link in case you don't know how to get there on your own: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/al-east-notes-blue-jays-reynolds-ortiz-red-sox.html

    [/QUOTE]

    Excuse me but I also read this...but the difference is I don't take it as gospel...he prefers not to trade his young pitchers for a starter, but who thinks he would not be interested in making a deal for a Josh Johnson, Brett Anderson, Tim Lincecom, if the opposing team asks for Barnes, Webster or Ranaudo.

    He probably does not want to give up these guys for a Holland or Haren or 2nd tier pitchers like this...which are more likely to be available to him.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cherington "would like to add a pitcher to the rotation". Really Ben? Did you think of that all by yourself? Let's see, we've lost Beckett, Dice-K, and Cook, maybe Ben thinks that one more pitcher gets us back to a 3 man rotation, and then Doubront and Morales can fill the back side.

    I would almost bet my paycheck that the Sox get Liriano as the one pitcher they add. Since Ben is not willing to move any pitching prospects, trading for a #3 or better is not going to be easy. there are some good FA pitchers available. A. Sanchez would be my choice, but if the Tigers want to hang on to him, I bet we could Porcello without having to give away the farm. He's a heck of a lot better than Liriano and what, 5 years younger?

    [/QUOTE]

    Beckett is the only guy who was actually in the regular rotation, not counting injury.  Last time I checked the Sox had Lester, buchholz, Lackey and Doubront.  So, again, your little smashing Ben fest is based on you not understanding the situation.

     In some fantasy world, where there were lots of affordable, good pitchers on the market, sure, it would be great to grab a couple top guys.  But, there aren't.  There is only middle rotation guys at best and none of them are coming cheap.  I like Sanchez too.  Gotta see what the market is.  I think Haren on his 1 year extension is fine too if the Angels pick it up and don't want the whole farm in return.  I don't know. tough choices.  

    Ben does not have it easy.  But one thing I am absolutely sure of.  He knows the lay of the land and has infinitely more understanding of the market and the situation on the club than you do.  Spare us your ridiculous lambasting of him.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    Ben said he would like to hold on to what pitching prospects he has...That doesnt sound like he's dead set against it if the right deal were to arise. Your disdain for Ben C. has made your thinking towards any situation irrational...

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Read MLBTR. It's all right there. Here's the link in case you don't know how to get there on your own: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/al-east-notes-blue-jays-reynolds-ortiz-red-sox.html

    [/QUOTE]

    Excuse me but I also read this...but the difference is I don't take it as gospel...he prefers not to trade his young pitchers for a starter, but who thinks he would not be interested in making a deal for a Josh Johnson, Brett Anderson, Tim Lincecom, if the opposing team asks for Barnes, Webster or Ranaudo.

    He probably does not want to give up these guys for a Holland or Haren or 2nd tier pitchers like this...which are more likely to be available to him.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    My question would be, why trade anyone when there is solid pitching in FA market? The problem is the RS are gun-shy to make any long-term commitments, so picking up a player with a a couple years left on a contract is safer. While that is true to an extent, we now have the money to get a Greinke, or a McCarthy, or a Sanchez who are all still relatively young.

    I think Villanueva would be a great investment and Farrell should know him better than anyone.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Read MLBTR. It's all right there. Here's the link in case you don't know how to get there on your own: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/al-east-notes-blue-jays-reynolds-ortiz-red-sox.html

    [/QUOTE]

    Excuse me but I also read this...but the difference is I don't take it as gospel...he prefers not to trade his young pitchers for a starter, but who thinks he would not be interested in making a deal for a Josh Johnson, Brett Anderson, Tim Lincecom, if the opposing team asks for Barnes, Webster or Ranaudo.

    He probably does not want to give up these guys for a Holland or Haren or 2nd tier pitchers like this...which are more likely to be available to him.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    My question would be, why trade anyone when there is solid pitching in FA market? The problem is the RS are gun-shy to make any long-term commitments, so picking up a player with a a couple years left on a contract is safer. While that is true to an extent, we now have the money to get a Greinke, or a McCarthy, or a Sanchez who are all still relatively young.

    I think Villanueva would be a great investment and Farrell should know him better than anyone.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    The truth is we really dont know what the Sox are going to do. We know their needs and Im sure they are wll aware of them too. Although we have the $$$ get whomever we desire, doesnt mean we should get the best available. Greinke would be a bad fit here IMO. Hamilton will want 6 years...Both are just too risky for the length of time the could get. if Hamilton would take a 3 yr deal I would give him 20+M per. I just dont think he will...

    Your suggestion of Villenueva is valid. We'll just have to wait and see what BC does.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My question would be, why trade anyone when there is solid pitching in FA market? The problem is the RS are gun-shy to make any long-term commitments, so picking up a player with a a couple years left on a contract is safer. While that is true to an extent, we now have the money to get a Greinke, or a McCarthy, or a Sanchez who are all still relatively young.

    I think Villanueva would be a great investment and Farrell should know him better than anyone.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ike now this was a much clearer post and most of which I can agree with...although I don't think the Sox will get involved with Greinke, not only because of the cost to sign, but the doubts involved in whether he can pitch in a big market like Boston. This will apply to McCarthy and Sanchez as well if another team steps up and offers these guys long-term big dollar contracts...the Sox willl walk away I believe.

    Good point about Villanueva...if Farrell thinks he's got the right stuff, he'll definitely be able to convince Cherington to bring him aboard.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cherington "would like to add a pitcher to the rotation". Really Ben? Did you think of that all by yourself? Let's see, we've lost Beckett, Dice-K, and Cook, maybe Ben thinks that one more pitcher gets us back to a 3 man rotation, and then Doubront and Morales can fill the back side.

    I would almost bet my paycheck that the Sox get Liriano as the one pitcher they add. Since Ben is not willing to move any pitching prospects, trading for a #3 or better is not going to be easy. there are some good FA pitchers available. A. Sanchez would be my choice, but if the Tigers want to hang on to him, I bet we could Porcello without having to give away the farm. He's a heck of a lot better than Liriano and what, 5 years younger?

    [/QUOTE]

    Beckett is the only guy who was actually in the regular rotation, not counting injury.  Last time I checked the Sox had Lester, buchholz, Lackey and Doubront.  So, again, your little smashing Ben fest is based on you not understanding the situation.

     In some fantasy world, where there were lots of affordable, good pitchers on the market, sure, it would be great to grab a couple top guys.  But, there aren't.  There is only middle rotation guys at best and none of them are coming cheap.  I like Sanchez too.  Gotta see what the market is.  I think Haren on his 1 year extension is fine too if the Angels pick it up and don't want the whole farm in return.  I don't know. tough choices.  

    Ben does not have it easy.  But one thing I am absolutely sure of.  He knows the lay of the land and has infinitely more understanding of the market and the situation on the club than you do.  Spare us your ridiculous lambasting of him.  

    [/QUOTE]
    you think Ben is an astute judge of baseball talent? really????

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cherington "would like to add a pitcher to the rotation". Really Ben? Did you think of that all by yourself? Let's see, we've lost Beckett, Dice-K, and Cook, maybe Ben thinks that one more pitcher gets us back to a 3 man rotation, and then Doubront and Morales can fill the back side.

    I would almost bet my paycheck that the Sox get Liriano as the one pitcher they add. Since Ben is not willing to move any pitching prospects, trading for a #3 or better is not going to be easy. there are some good FA pitchers available. A. Sanchez would be my choice, but if the Tigers want to hang on to him, I bet we could Porcello without having to give away the farm. He's a heck of a lot better than Liriano and what, 5 years younger?

    [/QUOTE]

    Beckett is the only guy who was actually in the regular rotation, not counting injury.  Last time I checked the Sox had Lester, buchholz, Lackey and Doubront.  So, again, your little smashing Ben fest is based on you not understanding the situation.

     In some fantasy world, where there were lots of affordable, good pitchers on the market, sure, it would be great to grab a couple top guys.  But, there aren't.  There is only middle rotation guys at best and none of them are coming cheap.  I like Sanchez too.  Gotta see what the market is.  I think Haren on his 1 year extension is fine too if the Angels pick it up and don't want the whole farm in return.  I don't know. tough choices.  

    Ben does not have it easy.  But one thing I am absolutely sure of.  He knows the lay of the land and has infinitely more understanding of the market and the situation on the club than you do.  Spare us your ridiculous lambasting of him.  

    [/QUOTE]
    you think Ben is an astute judge of baseball talent? really????

    [/QUOTE]

    At this juncture, I do not have reason to believe otherwise, other than the total failure of Mark Melancon, who, even for those that were not sold on his ability to come in to the back end of a pen in the AL East, I heard no one predict would be such an epic fail.  Every other decision made last year has to be viewed through the lens of the fiscal restraints placed upon him by Theo's willy nilly spending sprees of his latter years. 

    Strike that.  Bard in the rotation was bad.

     

    But, verdict still out.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    Space, Ben got rid of Scutaro to save 6 million even though he was literally the only one who cared by the end of 2011....now it looks like he is ready to jettison Papi for 5 million.....i dont know but even with my concerns about papis age/health, i cant believe they will let him walk for such a paltry sum in red sox $$$ terms....

     

    doesnt give me confidence, sorry....

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to georom4's comment:

    you think Ben is an astute judge of baseball talent? really????


    More than you

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:

    you think Ben is an astute judge of baseball talent? really????



    More than you

    thats news to me considering i wante to resign paps, or at least let bard close, keep scutaro and get rid of beckett before the yr began.....then again, given Ben's trade record, who ISNT a better judge of talent than this bumbling clown?  enjoy the repeat of losing a valued vet who plays hard to save 5 million....bye papi...thanks Ben!

    [/QUOTE]


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Space, Ben got rid of Scutaro to save 6 million even though he was literally the only one who cared by the end of 2011....now it looks like he is ready to jettison Papi for 5 million.....i dont know but even with my concerns about papis age/health, i cant believe they will let him walk for such a paltry sum in red sox $$$ terms....

     

    doesnt give me confidence, sorry....

    [/QUOTE]


    Actually, your recollection seems pretty faulty at best. Ellsbury had a very strong September in 2011 too. And you still haven't answered whether you would rather have had Scut playing SS with a right shoulder hanging by a thread or Ross in the OF. The Sox were sinking under the weight of long term deals whether you care to admit it or not.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Space, Ben got rid of Scutaro to save 6 million even though he was literally the only one who cared by the end of 2011....now it looks like he is ready to jettison Papi for 5 million.....i dont know but even with my concerns about papis age/health, i cant believe they will let him walk for such a paltry sum in red sox $$$ terms....

     

    doesnt give me confidence, sorry....

    [/QUOTE]

    Ortiz...isn't...going...anywhere - Scutaro is physically unable to play SS full time - Ben Cherington has been working in the Sox Front Office for 14 years, during most successful run in last 90 years.  Someone must think pretty highly of him.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:

    you think Ben is an astute judge of baseball talent? really????



    More than you

     

    [/QUOTE]

    geo, Cheringtons background was scouting, draft and player development.  yes, I would say so.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    yea, that scutaro played in a lot of games for someone on death's doorstep...and if aviles was given the shortstop job, than any argument saying marco couldnt anymore is hilarious....there were plenty of infield positions for marco to play last yr..oh yea, we had the great Punto for about the same money signed....great job Ben....

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:

    you think Ben is an astute judge of baseball talent? really????



    More than you

     

    [/QUOTE]

    geo, Cheringtons background was draft and player development, so I would say so.

    [/QUOTE]

    cherington should stick to watching minor leaguers play ball, he is a joke of a GM....if it werent for magic johnson, he wouldve been fired by now

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:

    you think Ben is an astute judge of baseball talent? really????



    More than you

     

    [/QUOTE]

    geo, Cheringtons background was draft and player development, so I would say so.

    [/QUOTE]

    cherington should stick to watching minor leaguers play ball, he is a joke of a GM....if it werent for magic johnson, he wouldve been fired by now

    [/QUOTE]

    Why?....he isn't the one who gave Beckett the extension, traded for Gonzo or signed Crawford. How about waiting to see what he does with the freed up payroll and giving the guy a chance to put his own mark on team, geo

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    yea, that scutaro played in a lot of games for someone on death's doorstep...and if aviles was given the shortstop job, than any argument saying marco couldnt anymore is hilarious....there were plenty of infield positions for marco to play last yr..oh yea, we had the great Punto for about the same money signed....great job Ben....

    [/QUOTE]

    what positions?  You want Cherrington to have an ability to see the future and know Pedey would get hurt at some point?  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    yea, that scutaro played in a lot of games for someone on death's doorstep...and if aviles was given the shortstop job, than any argument saying marco couldnt anymore is hilarious....there were plenty of infield positions for marco to play last yr..oh yea, we had the great Punto for about the same money signed....great job Ben....

    [/QUOTE]

    what positions?  You want Cherrington to have an ability to see the future and know Pedey would get hurt at some point?  

    [/QUOTE]

    why are players like aviles and punto valued more than scutaro?  how about keeping your best players? apparently our GM decides the roster based on contract size....that worked out well didnt it last yr?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    yea, that scutaro played in a lot of games for someone on death's doorstep...and if aviles was given the shortstop job, than any argument saying marco couldnt anymore is hilarious....there were plenty of infield positions for marco to play last yr..oh yea, we had the great Punto for about the same money signed....great job Ben....

    [/QUOTE]

    what positions?  You want Cherrington to have an ability to see the future and know Pedey would get hurt at some point?  

    [/QUOTE]

    why are players like aviles and punto valued more than scutaro?  how about keeping your best players? apparently our GM decides the roster based on contract size....that worked out well didnt it last yr?

    [/QUOTE]

    If you don't want to accept the conventional wisdom that, due to the exorbitant contracts taken on, there had to be some cinching up of the salary belt somewhere, then, I can't argue.  You are right: in a vacuum, you should always keep your most hard-nosed ball players.  Absolutely.  Its too bad reality isn't like that.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: GM just full of surprises

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    thats news to me considering i wante to resign paps, or at least let bard close, keep scutaro and get rid of beckett before the yr began.....then again, given Ben's trade record, who ISNT a better judge of talent than this bumbling clown?  enjoy the repeat of losing a valued vet who plays hard to save 5 million....bye papi...thanks Ben!

    [/QUOTE]

    First off, Scutaro was traded so the Sox could acquire Cody Ross because you seem to forget they were at the luxury tax level before the trade. A power hitting RH bat was more of a need than a gimpy armed SS making $6million and no position to play in the Sox.

    Secondly, did we hear you lobbying for Scutaro any time during the season? I think you are just jumping on the Scutaro bandwagon due to his 2012 playoff success.

    Where did this $5million number come from when we have no idea what the Sox have offered Ortiz or what Ortiz is asking for (other than 2 years) or what another team might be willing to spend to acquire Ortiz...but still you demean the GM anyway.

     

     

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