Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    Scutaro was traded for Mortenson, not Aviles.  I suppose when you re-write the moves it does build a better case.  And while Scutaro did win World Series MVP, were you also mourning Renteria, who won it in 2010?

     

    Last off-season, the team was hamstrung by budget limitations.  That really does impact the off-season.  Most people get it.  This year, the off-season has barely begun. 

     

    And while Reddick did fluorish while Bailey struggled, I do not think that was a bad deal.  No one could have foretold that opwer surge from Reddick; quit pretending it was inevitable.

     

    It is odd now fans are sad to lose Reddick and Papebon.  Papelbon had more critics from the moment Bard appearsed, and everyone wanted hm gone.  Reddick was declared a bust last August by the overwhleming majority of the Veruca Salt-ers.  But hey, that was THEN, right?

     

    And by the way, criticizing the move of Reddick for Bailey does officially make you a hypocrite, since you have been calling all offseason for the team to move some prospects for a bigger name player.  Apparently you only want them to make those moves so you can criticize them later...

    [/QUOTE]
    seems like you have the same opinion of ben as i do - you just wont say it....and i ask you again, in vain aparently, what has been done since he has been in charge to make this a better team? 

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    seems like you have the same opinion of ben as i do - you just wont say it....and i ask you again, in vain aparently, what has been done since he has been in charge to make this a better team? 

    [/QUOTE]

    Signing David Ross made us a better team.  He had a .770 OPS last year and threw out 44% of base stealing attempts.  Both numbers better than Salty or Lava, so it made us a better team.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Value and fit matters to me, not market. I acquire when value and fit is near or below market. Gomes was near enough, and unlike D. Ross, I believe the offer sheet was there to where the Red Sox weren't bidding against themselves.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok, fair enough, but divorcing (perceived) value from market price is avoiding reality.  A GM can stamp his feet and refuse to pay player X salary Y because it's an "overpay" but ultimately will not be able to compete with a GM that makes the right judgements on how much to "overpay" which player e.g. Manny's 8/160.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    [/QUOTE]
    seems like you have the same opinion of ben as i do - you just wont say it....and i ask you again, in vain aparently, what has been done since he has been in charge to make this a better team? 

     [/QUOTE]


    What SORT of move has Ben failed to make that he could have during his year in the job?  He had no budget to sign big names or take on big salaries last winter, or this past summer.  Many people would have gone berserk if he'd traded our top prospects.

    So, in your opinion, what opportunities, in general, has Ben missed?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

     

    I like this deal because it's cost-effective.  Also, Gomes is a clubhouse leader and will cost the Red Sox only $10 million for two years. 

    Gomes in 2012:  .262 BA/.377 OBP/.491 SLG

    Ross in 2012:      .267/.327/.481.

     

     

     

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Scutaro was traded for Mortenson, not Aviles.  I suppose when you re-write the moves it does build a better case.  And while Scutaro did win World Series MVP, were you also mourning Renteria, who won it in 2010?

     

    Last off-season, the team was hamstrung by budget limitations.  That really does impact the off-season.  Most people get it.  This year, the off-season has barely begun. 

     

    And while Reddick did fluorish while Bailey struggled, I do not think that was a bad deal.  No one could have foretold that opwer surge from Reddick; quit pretending it was inevitable.

     

    It is odd now fans are sad to lose Reddick and Papebon.  Papelbon had more critics from the moment Bard appearsed, and everyone wanted hm gone.  Reddick was declared a bust last August by the overwhleming majority of the Veruca Salt-ers.  But hey, that was THEN, right?

     

    And by the way, criticizing the move of Reddick for Bailey does officially make you a hypocrite, since you have been calling all offseason for the team to move some prospects for a bigger name player.  Apparently you only want them to make those moves so you can criticize them later...

    [/QUOTE]
    seems like you have the same opinion of ben as i do - you just wont say it....and i ask you again, in vain aparently, what has been done since he has been in charge to make this a better team? 

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    No, I do not share your opinions, not yet.    I have no idae how you interpted anything that way.

     

    nice try with the cornering question.  But your question makes no sense to ask at this time.  The offseason is far from over.   Might as well have asked that question during the World Series and held Cherington accountable. 

     

    Last offseason, he had little room to maneuver, like it or not.  This offseason, outside of one Marlins Jays trade, not much has been done anywhere except a few guys returning to last season's clubs.   And of course a ltitany of complaints from fans who think the roster should be in place by now.  The mere fact that you ask that question so early in the offseason shows you hjave no intention of gving this offseason a chance, and you have already made up your mind that every move Cherington makes will be a bad one.

     

    You used to be above that sort of behavior.   Slow down and wait the offseason out, and quit pouting over Valentine.  Isn't it amazing you condemn Farrell but seem to think Valentine deserves a free pass for everything?

     

    Hey, maybe that is my answer to your question on how Cherington made the Sox better - he fired Valentine.   Now you see why you might have beeen better off waiting at least until after the Winter Meetings...

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    For what the Sox needed, as far as platoon/Bench guys, they overpaid a little for both Gomes and Ross. Theyre both on short term low dollars, which wont hurt them and fills a need.

    Gomes is a strong RH bat that hits LHP very good and Ross is a great defensive catcher with a decent bat...Both are outstanding clubhouse guys with personalities, which is something Ben is making sure the players he acquires has...

    Both are good fits in Boston IMO.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEOtEB-RUnY

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    i wonder how he'll feel walking in, knowing he always seemed to be smack in the middle of those Sox/Rays dustups..LOL...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    In response to jete02fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i wonder how he'll feel walking in, knowing he always seemed to be smack in the middle of those Sox/Rays dustups..LOL...

    [/QUOTE]


    Hes the kind of player that you know will have your back. We saw that from the opposite side.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Gomes and D. Ross are fits. The base and years will not cost significantly more tha their value. Gomes was close enough, and most surely had the offer sheet to move the base from 3 to 5. Ross most surely did not, but is too small a percentage of the budget going forward to be substantual.

    Both are good acquisitions.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that both of these make us a better club, but its not the news I want to hear. Where is the news about us signing some better starting pitchers? Until that happens the team still has to be considered second or third tier at best.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Softlaw1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Gomes and D. Ross are fits. The base and years will not cost significantly more tha their value. Gomes was close enough, and most surely had the offer sheet to move the base from 3 to 5. Ross most surely did not, but is too small a percentage of the budget going forward to be substantual.

    Both are good acquisitions.

    [/QUOTE]

    I agree that both of these make us a better club, but its not the news I want to hear. Where is the news about us signing some better starting pitchers? Until that happens the team still has to be considered second or third tier at best.

    [/QUOTE]


    If we do nothing to improve our SPs, 3rd tier seems just about right, but we still need to make some adjustments elsewhere as well, so what oder we do it is not important to me as long as we do somthing substantial with out rotation.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    ben has spoken quite clearly about his priorities.....he will make lateral moves that make NO difference towards making the squad a contender...the sad thing is that with the core players we have, coupled with a grienke, napoli and a real closer, we would be competing for the division crown....

    i think Notin has been in coma since ben arrived to not have noticed his risk aversion and dumpster dive moves...and btw Notin, ben HIRED Valentine and then undermined him with his own disloyal coach hirings and backstabbing nonsupport....that impressed you?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ben has spoken quite clearly about his priorities.....he will make lateral moves that make NO difference towards making the squad a contender...the sad thing is that with the core players we have, coupled with a grienke, napoli and a real closer, we would be competing for the division crown....

    i think Notin has been in coma since ben arrived to not have noticed his risk aversion and dumpster dive moves...and btw Notin, ben HIRED Valentine and then undermined him with his own disloyal coach hirings and backstabbing nonsupport....that impressed you?

    [/QUOTE]


     

    His words or your interpretion?   Fairly certain I have seen several quotes where he says the team intends to contend.

     

    Valentine did step into a bad situation, but he also showed he was simply not the guy to manage this team.  and really, the hiring made zero sense from the word go.  The team was rife with ego and discipline issues per the press, so they bring in a manager who has always viewed himself as being above the team? 

     

    I am not all that thrilled about Farrell, either.  Hopefully he rapport with the starting pitchers will have some benefits, but I am really not wild about him as a tactician...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    His words or your interpretion? Fairly certain I have seen several quotes where he says the team intends to contend.

    Ben also said we will spend this inter.

     

    Valentine did step into a bad situation, but he also showed he was simply not the guy to manage this team. and really, the hiring made zero sense from the word go. The team was rife with ego and discipline issues per the press, so they bring in a manager who has always viewed himself as being above the team?

    A good role model, huh?

     

    I am not all that thrilled about Farrell, either. Hopefully he rapport with the starting pitchers will have some benefits, but I am really not wild about him as a tactician...

    I never got the Farrell love even when he was our pitching coach. harness loved this guy. Let's hope he was right.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    believe it or not, the more i think about farrell as manager, the more i like it and it makes sense...they need a guy to relax the team, especially the pitchers....plus i think he mightve learned a thing or two during francona's tenure to be firm when he has to...

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    believe it or not, the more i think about farrell as manager, the more i like it and it makes sense...they need a guy to relax the team, especially the pitchers....plus i think he mightve learned a thing or two during francona's tenure to be firm when he has to...

    [/QUOTE]


    Maybe.

     

    I get why Farrell was hired, and really, it boiled down to  him being the closest thing to bringing Francona back. without actually admitting the mistake and bringing Francona back.  However, this does not make his as good of a manager. 

     

    Of course, I will give him every chance to prove himself, but it seems to me there were probably better candidates out there and they seemed to focus the search really, really quickly.  And, at the very least, we did see regression in some of the SPs this year, which hopefully he can  eitherhelp with or hire they guy who can...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    believe it or not, the more i think about farrell as manager, the more i like it and it makes sense...they need a guy to relax the team, especially the pitchers....plus i think he mightve learned a thing or two during francona's tenure to be firm when he has to...

    [/QUOTE]

    WAIT!!!!

     

    Does this post mean you answered your own question about what Ben has done to improve the team?!? 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    Ben has made some questionable moves although the jury is still out on some that have been bashed so far.

    However, as far as looking at 2013 and beyond, here are some positive things he has done:

    1) Dumped CC and his $8-12M/yr overpay.

    2) Dumped Beckett and his $6-8M/yr overpay.

    3) Dumped Punto.

    4) Obtained Mortensen for a player that would not be on our roster now, and who was replaced by a nearly identical player that was already on our roster (Aviles) and with the money freed up, helped us sign Ross, Padilla, and Shoppach for 2012.

    5) Melancon will be better than Lowrie & Weiland.

    6) Not overpaying Papelbon.

    7) Signing Pods.

    8) Re-obtaining Pods.

    9) Signing Ciriaco.

    10) Signing M Gomez.

    11) Traded Albers & Pods for Breslow.

    12) Obtained de la Rosa, Webster, & Sands while dumping mega salaries.

    11) Most say we drafted well in 2012.

     

     

    I hated the Youk trade, but as it turned out, it was a wash.

    The Reddick-Bailey/Sweeney deal looks bad so far, but there's a ways to go yet.

    Losing AGon hurt, but overall, the deal was fantastic for the Sox future.

    The D Ross and J Gomes signings both seem like overpay and are not meant to be game-changers, but I'd rather have Gomes at $10M/2 than Ross at $20M/3, and if we get something good for Salty or Lava via trade, I'm not going to complain too much about either of these deals. (I will say, I would not have paid this much for either of these two.)

     

    I am not a Ben apologist. I think his hands were tied last winter, but not now. I will reserve my judgement until after this winter and into next season. I wouldn't say he;s done a great job. I wouldn't call him terrible either.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    4) Obtained Mortensen for a player that would not be on our roster now, and who was replaced by a nearly identical player that was already on our roster (Aviles) and with the money freed up, helped us sign Ross, Padilla, and Shoppach for 2012.


    Of course, Ben should have known that Scutaro would become a post-season hero; thereby, making this deal appear foolhearty.  This is why I'm going to reserve judgement on Cherrington until after the 2013 postseason in case any traded players (including Mike Aviles this time) ultimately become World Series heroes.  

    Who knows?  Maybe this year the Red Sox will package Aceves in a deal, who, after a second trade, goes on to pitch key shutdown innings in the World Series.  I will then go on a "Fire Ben Cherrington" tirade and upload egg on his face for his lack of foresight.  Forget WAR and other player evaluation tools, it's all about how well castoff players perform, regardless of financial, fit, and future team needs.  

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Gomes - Sox agree on 2-year 10 mil deal

    Scoot would not have led us to the WS in 2012, so what he did for SF means squat. Scoot would never have played FT SS in 2012 for us or anyone else. Those calling this a bad trade are clearly working with an agenda... a bash Ben agenda.

     

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