How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Doubront was pitching well and had a low pitch count, agreed.  But on the other hand he has never pitched the 9th inning as a starter.  He might have been way out of his comfort zone pitching the 9th with a 1-0 lead.  The closer's reason for existence is to get 3 outs with a 1-0 lead.  Bailey didn't get it done.  But we won the game and Doubront's confidence probably gets a huge boost from his performance.



    Doubront had also never pitched into the 8th inning as a starter. There was no reason whatsoever to bring in Bailey last night. Glad we won; bonehead move by the manager, given Bailey's recent struggles.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    Closers...Closers...Closers...and many are pricey Prima Donnas. I am an anachronism as I recall favorably the days when a journey man pitcher went the distance and was judged not only on ERAs but complete games. OK, I'm repeating what many posters have said, he only had done 93 pitches and gave up 3 hits and no walks. It was Bailey who gave up the 1 walk, fortunately, after the tying HR.  At least let him start the 9th & then if he gives up a hit or walk & looks fatigued, replace him. And Bailey is no Paplebon or Mariano Rivera .

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    Of course, had Farrell stuck with Doubront and he gave up the tying homer to Johnson, the title of this thread would have been "Farrell should never have left Felix in for the 9th!!"

     




    +1000

    Its a win win for the chronic whiners here.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to SFBostonFan's comment:

    At least let him start the 9th & then if he gives up a hit or walk & looks fatigued, replace him.



    So you're saying you don't trust Bailey to nail down the save starting with a clean inning, but you trust him to nail down the save coming in with a runner on base.  Think about it.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    Los in all this is the lack of offense.  If the Sox put up 3-4 runs in the 1st 8 innings, maybe this whole conversation is moot.

     

    Bottom line is right now, Bailey is paid to get those last 3 outs and hold the lead.  Last night, only one of those thinigs happened.  People seem to forget that the other side has major league players, too.  Last night, he made a bad pitch and it got hammered.  Sometimes he'll make a bad pitch and the batter will pop it up or drill it right at someone.  And last week in Tampa, he gave up a homer on a pitch 3 inches outside that the batter somehow pulled over the right field fence.  It's why baseball is a funny game.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    Since he had a pretty low pitch count and a shutout going he should have been left in. I would have pulled him if he allowed a baserunner though. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    Doubie has averaged around 100-105 pitches per game this year, so I wouldnt say 93 is a low PC for him. Its very close to where he usually is. 11 of 13 games have been 105 or less, with 113 being his best.

    I agree that maybe give him the chance for a CG, but Bailey needed to get back out there after a couple rough starts. Through 6/9 in those 19 appearences, the Sox went 16-3 he gave up 10H in 18.1IP, 3ER, 27K to 6BB, 1.47ERA, batters were hitting 159 off him. Thats pretty solid.

    Although his last 4 starts have not been good, the Sox have won every game. You have to get him back to how he was the previous 19 games, not just crucify him for for bad ones that the team ultimately won. You do that by sending him out there.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MustangBri. Show MustangBri's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    In response to jasko2248's comment:

     

    Are you Grady Little?  Just curious...Your schtick is to crucify managers, especially Tito, whenever possible, so I thought maybe you are Grady Little and you're still bitter over getting fired for not pulling Pedro back in '03...

     


    Amazingly, the only manager he ever liked was Bobby Valentine. So ...

    With the benefit of hindsight, Farrell should have left Felix in. But at the time, I agreed with bringing in Bailey, so I'm not going to be hypocritical about it now. In such a situation, you go with your closer and expect him to do his job.

     

    A bigger question now is, who should our closer be? Bailey has obvious issues. Personally, I like Koji.

     

     

     



    Ditto that.  Love the way Koji gets pumped when he finishes an inning strong.  Great team player.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MustangBri. Show MustangBri's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to illinoisredsox's comment:

    Los in all this is the lack of offense.  If the Sox put up 3-4 runs in the 1st 8 innings, maybe this whole conversation is moot.

     

    Bottom line is right now, Bailey is paid to get those last 3 outs and hold the lead.  Last night, only one of those thinigs happened.  People seem to forget that the other side has major league players, too.  Last night, he made a bad pitch and it got hammered.  Sometimes he'll make a bad pitch and the batter will pop it up or drill it right at someone.  And last week in Tampa, he gave up a homer on a pitch 3 inches outside that the batter somehow pulled over the right field fence.  It's why baseball is a funny game.  




    A voice of reason.  That kinda stuff won't fly in here Illinois!!!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    So you're saying you don't trust Bailey to nail down the save starting with a clean inning, but you trust him to nail down the save coming in with a runner on base.  Think about it.


    Exactly.

    The situation last night called for bringing in your closer. Otherwise, why have a closer?

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to LloydDobler's comment:

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    So you're saying you don't trust Bailey to nail down the save starting with a clean inning, but you trust him to nail down the save coming in with a runner on base.  Think about it.

     


    Exactly.

    The situation last night called for bringing in your closer. Otherwise, why have a closer?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If last night was not a situation for a complete game then there never will be one.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

    Doubront was pitching well and had a low pitch count, agreed.  But on the other hand he has never pitched the 9th inning as a starter.  He might have been way out of his comfort zone pitching the 9th with a 1-0 lead.  The closer's reason for existence is to get 3 outs with a 1-0 lead.  Bailey didn't get it done.  But we won the game and Doubront's confidence probably gets a huge boost from his performance.



    "He has never pitched the 9th inning as a starter"   ummmm,  What?????

    Do the groundskeepers move the mound or home plate for the 9th inning???
     

    "Doubront's confidence probably gets a huge boost"??????  ummmm,  What???

    Let's see, he's retired 17 in a row. Has not thrown more that 13 pitches in an inning. His manager shows him how much confidence he has in him by foolheartedly removing him from the game. Yup, that's a real boost for his confidence..

    The game was won "IN SPITE OF FARRELL". Thankfully it hasn't happened that often this year.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Can anyone explain this? If a guy is that electric, hadn't thrown more than 13 pitches in any inning, yet he takes him out for a closer who has been awful?

    Any explanations?

     




    You are absolutely correct, though the pink hats will deny it. Doubront was coasting and his PC was low. It was the best game I have ever seen him pitch. The correct move was to leave him in the game, perhaps only until he allowed one baserunner, but definitely leave him in the game. How many guys in a row had he retired? 15? Bailey is a loser-without the "c". It took him exactly two pitches to cough up the tying run. Had we lost this game the blame would have gone squarely on Farrell and Bailey. Inexplicable tactics.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    "the blame would have gone squarely on Farrell and Bailey". 
    Sorry, but Bailey takes no blame for the fiasco. Unless you believe he did it on purpose. He couldn't refuse to come into the game, so he did his best. His best isn't good enough and the manager should know that a pitcher that has retired the last 17 batters in a row is a better pitcher than a questionable "closer" in that situation.. Farrell fixed something that was was in perfect running order.

    Granted, they won the game, but blunders like that could cost the team in the future. In my mind, it was a horrible decision, period.  Let's hope Farrell is smart enough to realize that he made a terrible call and strive to not let it happen again. I truly hope he hasn't tried to defend the move.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    If last night was not a situation for a complete game then there never will be one.


    Had Farrell left Doubront out there, I wouldn't have complained about it. I'm just being honest. Had I been the manager, I'd have done the same thing Farrell did. And I think if you polled the 30 MLB managers, at least 20 would agree.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

    "He has never pitched the 9th inning as a starter"   ummmm,  What?????

    Do the groundskeepers move the mound or home plate for the 9th inning???
     

    "Doubront's confidence probably gets a huge boost"??????  ummmm,  What???

    Let's see, he's retired 17 in a row. Has not thrown more that 13 pitches in an inning. His manager shows him how much confidence he has in him by foolheartedly removing him from the game. Yup, that's a real boost for his confidence..

    The game was won "IN SPITE OF FARRELL". Thankfully it hasn't happened that often this year.



    Sure, Doubront was going great.  But he has a 4.38 ERA this year and a 4.86 ERA last year for a reason.  He's had many games where he was pitching well and then suddenly unravelled and let in a bunch of runs.   

    Save the 'IN SPITE OF' nonsense.

    YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF DOUBRONT PITCHED THE 9TH AND YOU NEVER WILL.

    Is that clear enough? 

    Leave the managing to the manager. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    Hfx, +1 for your posts in this thread.  Well said.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    I'm sorry, but while I think Farrell is doing a terrific job this year and did in fact have his reasons for bringing in Bailey, I would definitely have gone with Doubront.  Why?  Because Bailey has been humoungously unreliable lately and because the reasons for his unreliability are well known to Bailey, the manager, and the pitching coach.  Opposing hitters are feasting on his fastball, which the same team, the Rays, in fact did about a week or so ago in Tampa. 

    I do agree with the idea Doubront could have blown it in the 9th, but to me that probability was a lot lower than Bailey blowing it in the 9th.  Doubront has the higher ERA, etc, but Doubront was throwing magic last night for eight innings and even had a low pitch count, 93, after 8 innings. 

    The reason why Farrell deserves to be defended is not because Bailey was a better bet last night, but because Farrell has a system which has been working very well, and part of that system is fixing responsibility.  The closer is supposed to close even when the starter is a better bet.  Farrell defended Bailey last night, but you can bet Bailey won't remain the closer much longer if he keeps throwing fat fastballs leading to game-ending dingers, etc. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

     

    Sure, Doubront was going great.  But he has a 4.38 ERA this year and a 4.86 ERA last year for a reason.  He's had many games where he was pitching well and then suddenly unravelled and let in a bunch of runs.   

    Save the 'IN SPITE OF' nonsense.

    YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF DOUBRONT PITCHED THE 9TH AND YOU NEVER WILL.

    Is that clear enough? 

    Leave the managing to the manager. 


    Go away!! There's no place for logic on this board!!

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from illinoisredsox. Show illinoisredsox's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    I can't remember the last time a Red Sox pitcher threw a 1-0 shutout.  It has been at least since 2007.  Here are the last 10 complete game shutouts by Red Sox pitchers; note the scores of the games:

    5/10/13  Lester         5-0 vs Toronto (1 hitter)

    6/29/12  Cook           5-0 vs. Seattle

    6/7/12    Buchholz     7-0 vs. Baltimore

    6/15/11  Beckett       3-0 vs. Tampa Bay (1 hitter)

    6/4/10    Buchholz     11-0 vs. Baltimore

    7/12/09  Beckett       6-0 vs. Kansas City

    6/20/09  Beckett       3-0 vs. Atlanta

    7/3/08    Lester         7-0 vs, New York

    5/19/08  Lester         7-0 vs. Kansas City (no-hitter)

    9/1/07    Buchholz     10-0 vs. Baltimore (no-hitter)

     

    Only 2 would have even remotely called for use of the closer (save situation), both 3-0 games by Beckett in his prime and a much more established pitcher than Doubront.

     

     

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to teddybaseball009's comment:

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to MustangBri's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Did we win?   Shussh!!  

    Who thought "oh damn , JohnnyGomes is starting in LF"?

    Get off Farrell's back...  We won!!  Obv he drew the right cards on the river.  I'll take it.

     

     




    It was an absolute "Win In Spite Of Farrell".  

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ditto. I have posted many times criticizing Farrell. He has lost us many games as I have pointed out. We were lucky to win this one.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Theres a reason nobody takes you or 1941 seriously. This post is a good example.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to ADG's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Can anyone explain this? If a guy is that electric, hadn't thrown more than 13 pitches in any inning, yet he takes him out for a closer who has been awful?

    Any explanations?

     

     




    You are absolutely correct, though the pink hats will deny it. Doubront was coasting and his PC was low. It was the best game I have ever seen him pitch. The correct move was to leave him in the game, perhaps only until he allowed one baserunner, but definitely leave him in the game. How many guys in a row had he retired? 15? Bailey is a loser-without the "c". It took him exactly two pitches to cough up the tying run. Had we lost this game the blame would have gone squarely on Farrell and Bailey. Inexplicable tactics.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    "the blame would have gone squarely on Farrell and Bailey". 
    Sorry, but Bailey takes no blame for the fiasco. Unless you believe he did it on purpose. He couldn't refuse to come into the game, so he did his best. His best isn't good enough and the manager should know that a pitcher that has retired the last 17 batters in a row is a better pitcher than a questionable "closer" in that situation.. Farrell fixed something that was was in perfect running order.

     

    Granted, they won the game, but blunders like that could cost the team in the future. In my mind, it was a horrible decision, period.  Let's hope Farrell is smart enough to realize that he made a terrible call and strive to not let it happen again. I truly hope he hasn't tried to defend the move.

    [/QUOTE]


    So Bailey deserves no blame for serving up the game tying gopher ball? Your excuse: he did his best? With your faulty logic Bailey could continue to fail all year and remain our closer because he gets no blame for tossing meatballs up there.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    In response to BOSOX1941's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to ADG's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    Can anyone explain this? If a guy is that electric, hadn't thrown more than 13 pitches in any inning, yet he takes him out for a closer who has been awful?

    Any explanations?

     

     

     




    You are absolutely correct, though the pink hats will deny it. Doubront was coasting and his PC was low. It was the best game I have ever seen him pitch. The correct move was to leave him in the game, perhaps only until he allowed one baserunner, but definitely leave him in the game. How many guys in a row had he retired? 15? Bailey is a loser-without the "c". It took him exactly two pitches to cough up the tying run. Had we lost this game the blame would have gone squarely on Farrell and Bailey. Inexplicable tactics.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    "the blame would have gone squarely on Farrell and Bailey". 
    Sorry, but Bailey takes no blame for the fiasco. Unless you believe he did it on purpose. He couldn't refuse to come into the game, so he did his best. His best isn't good enough and the manager should know that a pitcher that has retired the last 17 batters in a row is a better pitcher than a questionable "closer" in that situation.. Farrell fixed something that was was in perfect running order.

     

     

    Granted, they won the game, but blunders like that could cost the team in the future. In my mind, it was a horrible decision, period.  Let's hope Farrell is smart enough to realize that he made a terrible call and strive to not let it happen again. I truly hope he hasn't tried to defend the move.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    So Bailey deserves no blame for serving up the game tying gopher ball? Your excuse: he did his best? With your faulty logic Bailey could continue to fail all year and remain our closer because he gets no blame for tossing meatballs up there.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    1941 just blames everything on the manager. Hes a one trick pony that few take seriously.

    Although, as Ive said, I thought Doubie would come out for the 9th, I understand what Farrell is doing. Over the next month he will be putting his players in situations to see how they perform. Bailey has been a question mark and he needs to be put in high pressure situations to see if he can succeed or if we need to address a need at the dealine. That, and he is the closer. At 93 pitches, we dont know how Doubie was feeling or what went on in that dugout. 11 of his 13 games have been 105 pitches or less and it was a long day. The situation called for the closer to come in and do his job. He didnt. Thats not Farrells fault.

    If Bailey closed it out without incident there would be no issue here. Just because a move doesnt work out doesnt mean it was wrong.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: How is it that Farrell Leaves Doubront in for 120 pitches on bad starts, but takes him out after 93 tonight?

       To me , Doubront stood a better chance of pitching a scoreless ninth than did Bailey.  Therefore , it was a mistake to bring in Bailey.  It's okay. Farrell is allowed an occasional hiccup.  If Bailey had been pitching like a dominant closer, I could have seen going to him. But that has not been the case , and Doubront had great stuff and had thrown 93 pitches. The percentages favored staying with Felix. That's how I saw it anyway.  

    Stabbed by Foulke

     
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