How many games has Francona cost this team?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

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    [QUOTE]Salty was an easy choice to DH, he was not catching 2 games of a DH, and you do not get taxed from 4 at bats and running the bases. That's all you have to do. Not exertion there. So instead force-feed CC and then force-feed him in the middle of the lineup, not 9th or 8th. It's just mind-numbing.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Then you have no back up catcher. No team does this.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    The most interesting thing about the OP is its insistence that we all remain civil while he lambasts easily the best manager the Sox have ever had.  

    Lowrie made the bonehead plays, not Francona.  And the entire rest of the team, except Ellsbury and Tek, couldn't hit.  A wasted pretty good start by Bedard, but it happens.  Nieman just mowed our guys down. 

    The hitting wasn't very good in the afternoon game, either.  3 hits and 3 runs, thanks to Ellsbury, and a terrific start by Jon Lester, who is still struggling with his control.

    When AGon, Pedroia, Youk, Crawford, et al, can't hit in either game, you are lucky to get a split. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

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    [QUOTE]The most interesting thing about the OP is its insistence that we all remain civil while he lambasts easily the best manager the Sox have ever had.   Lowrie made the bonehead plays, not Francona.  And the entire rest of the team, except Ellsbury and Tek, couldn't hit.  A wasted pretty good start by Bedard, but it happens.  Nieman just mowed our guys down.  The hitting wasn't very good in the afternoon game, either.  3 hits and 3 runs, thanks to Ellsbury, and a terrific start by Jon Lester, who is still struggling with his control. When AGon, Pedroia, Youk, Crawford, et al, can't hit in either game, you are lucky to get a split. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    dick williams, right now, is still a better manager than Francona....
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team? : dick williams, right now, is still a better manager than Francona....
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    good one! btw, 'coma is not a manager, he's director of human resources.

    "are all my player's happy? good. i've done my job. of course, talking to the press correctly is also one of my strong points. field managing? never heard of it."
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    Does anyone in the Red Sox nation feel comfortable in August with a manger whose philosophy is that just making the playoffs is what's important?

    For just once I would love to hear him say winning the division is important...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

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    [QUOTE]Let's all just be civil here, but the questions needs to be asked. How many games has Francona's stupidity cost this team? Let's take tonight. Why was Lowrie at third base? For that matter, why is Scutaro getting limited playing time? He more than proved himself. he has been consistenly adequate at short and was hitting the tar out of the ball. Lowrie comes off the DL and immediately gets more playing time? This is really foolish. Lowrie cost the Redsox tonight with a bad throw to home in the 2nd, and then throws the ball off the back of the runner in the 8th. These two plays cost the Sox in my count, 5 runs. Lowrie is a mediocre player. So is Scutaro, but Scutaro has been playing great. You stick with the players who are doing the job. Lowrie is NOT. Compond these assinine decisions over the course of the year and your "manager" costs you  15 or 20 games, EASILY. He is not good. The team has a winning record in spite of fancona.
    Posted by fgug[/QUOTE]

    According to Francona, Marco Scutaro is still tending to a stiff back and will be out for his second game in a row, leaving Lowrie and Aviles as the remaining potential starters for Tuesday's doubleheader against the Rays. But with Rays lefty starter David Price set to pitch Wednesday, Francona said he would rather start the switch-hitting Lowrie, who is just more than a week removed from his 45-game-long disabled list stint due to a shoulder issue, against the southpaw in the series finale. (Lowrie is in fact hitting .373 against lefties this season compared to .204 versus righties).

    That left only Aviles to get the start Tuesday.

    "Marco's back is still stiff so there's that," Francona said. "We really want Jed to play against the lefty tomorrow so it'll probably be two out of three for him. So that's why we're doing it. If someone's going to play two, Mike is probably better suited to do it."

    As for Scutaro's injury - the one that caused him to be scratched last Friday against the Mariners and has kept him out three of the last four games - Francona said the only thing to do is wait and give the injury time to heal. But the 1:05 start on Tuesday wouldn't allow for much of that needed time, thus the absence.

    "It's an early day," said the Sox skipper. "He'll get treatment, and we'll see how he's doing later."

    UPDATE: Lowrie will in fact play Tuesday after David Ortiz was scratched at the last moment with an undetermined illness. Lowrie replaces him as the DH and will hit eighth.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

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    [QUOTE]Let's all just be civil here, but the questions needs to be asked. How many games has Francona's stupidity cost this team? Let's take tonight. Why was Lowrie at third base? For that matter, why is Scutaro getting limited playing time? He more than proved himself. he has been consistenly adequate at short and was hitting the tar out of the ball. Lowrie comes off the DL and immediately gets more playing time? This is really foolish. Lowrie cost the Redsox tonight with a bad throw to home in the 2nd, and then throws the ball off the back of the runner in the 8th. These two plays cost the Sox in my count, 5 runs. Lowrie is a mediocre player. So is Scutaro, but Scutaro has been playing great. You stick with the players who are doing the job. Lowrie is NOT. Compond these assinine decisions over the course of the year and your "manager" costs you  15 or 20 games, EASILY. He is not good. The team has a winning record in spite of fancona.
    Posted by fgug[/QUOTE]

    To fgug and the other Tito bashers...maybe if you were paying any attention at all you would have known the following:
    • Ortiz - can up with a foot injury and is out indefinitely - did not play either game
    • Scutaro - is having back issues and did not play either game last night...he was not benched!
    • Youkilis - is also recovering from injury issues and was given the night off to avoid him re-injuring himself
    So let's see that's 1/3 of the line-up...but Tito should have replaced those 3 guys with Thome, Tulowitzki and Bautista.

    The one thing that may have surfaced last night is that Lowrie should not be included in any long-term plans at 3rd base. Yes he started the triple play, but he botched TWO plays at the plate that cost the team at least 2 runs.

    The bonehead Tito bashers will blame him for Lowrie's errors and not the player...since we all know the players get a free pass with the Tito bashers and couch potatoes amongst us.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    HELLO SOXMEISTER...I LIKE YOUR OPTIMISM. BUT....THE SAD
    TRUTH IS THAT THE TEAM IS GETTING HURT AND OLD. ONLY
    PEDEY AND ELLSBURY ARE PULLING THEIR WEIGHT. NAME
    BE ONE OTHER OFFENSIVE STARTER WHO IS. AND DON'T SAY
    AGON, THE SINGLES HITTER. HE IS STARTING TO LOOK WORN
    OUT ALREADY. THE OTHER TEAMS PUT THE SHIFT ON HIM, AND
    HE GROUNDS OUT RIGHT INTO IT. HE JUST WILL NOT HIT THE
    HOME RUNS LIKE TEIXEIRA. THIS BALLPARK IS NOT THE RIGHT
    PARK FOR GONZALEZ. HE IS NOT THE HR GUY LIKE ORTIZ WAS.
    I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEO WAS THINKING WHEN HE SIGNED
    A GON. IF WE LOSE 6 OUT OF THE NEXT 8, WHICH IS A REAL
    POSSIBILITY, WE WILL BE HANGING ON TO HOLD OFF TAMPA,
    WHICH IS A BETTER TEAM RIGHT NOW. THEY HAVE BETTER
    DEEPER PITCHING AND A HEALTHIER OFFENSE. WHO WOULD
    HAVE THOUGHT IT. PRICE, NIEMANN, SHIELDS, HELLICKSON,
    AND THEIR 5TH ARM, STILL ARE BETTER THAN OURTWO
    MAN SOX ROTATION. IF YOU THINK THAT LACKEY, BEDARD
    AND WAKE WILL PROPEL BOSTON TO A WILD CARD, YOU ARE
    MISTAKEN. WITH ORTIZ OUT, WE HAVE NO HR POWER, OUTSIDE
    OF JACOBY. THAT'S A SORRY STATEMENT ABOUT THE CLUB.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to How many games has Francona cost this team? : To fgug and the other Tito bashers...maybe if you were paying any attention at all you would have known the following: Ortiz - can up with a foot injury and is out indefinitely - did not play either game Scutaro - is having back issues and did not play either game last night...he was not benched! Youkilis - is also recovering from injury issues and was given the night off to avoid him re-injuring himself So let's see that's 1/3 of the line-up...but Tito should have replaced those 3 guys with Thome, Tulowitzki and Bautista. The one thing that may have surfaced last night is that Lowrie should not be included in any long-term plans at 3rd base. Yes he started the triple play, but he botched TWO plays at the plate that cost the team at least 2 runs. The bonehead Tito bashers will blame him for Lowrie's errors and not the player...since we all know the players get a free pass with the Tito bashers and couch potatoes amongst us.
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    well, you are partially right. 'coma shouldn't be the only one bashed; i think there should be some good time bashing of epstein, who is responsible for whom 'coma has to choose from.
    here's a question for sexdog: are all boneheads 'coma bashers, or are all 'coma bashers boneheads? and is tito himself a bonehead? and how about theo?
    spending 220 million for slackey and jd crawford; doesn't that get theo into the bonehead HOF?
    food for thought.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    TO SOXDOG67, I RESPECT YOUR UPBEAT OPINIONS, I REALLY
    DO !! BUT....I CAN'T AGREE. THIS TEAM IS GETTING TO BE
    OLD AND HURT, AT THE WORST TIME OF THE SEASON. WHILE
    THE YANKS ARE GETTING A ROD BACK, AND GRANDERSON AND
    TEIXEIRA ARE BANGING HRS., OUR OFFENSE IS IN A STATE OF
    RIGOR MORTIS. ORTIZ IS OUT AND JACOBY CARRIES THE TEAM.
    THIS IS A SORRY STATE OF AFFAIRS. REDDICK IS REVERTING
    TO FORM, AND A GON WILL CONTINUE TO HIT GROUNDERS INTO
    THE SHIFT. YOUK IS HURT AND WHO KNOWS HOW EFFECTIVE
    HE CAN BE FOR THE NEXT 7 WEEKS. HIS BODY MAY NOT BE
    DESIGNED FOR THE LONG SEASON or SEASONS TO COME.
    WE HAVE TO BRING UP THE KIDS FROM THE FARM LIKE THE
    ROYALS HAVE DONE WITH HOSMER, MOUSTAKAS, AND THE
    INDIANS WITH KIPNIS, LA PORTA, CHOO, ....THESE TEAMS
    ARE GONNA GET IT DONE WITH YOUNGSTERS...THE SOX
    ARE TRYING TO GET IT DONE WITH THE GERIATRIC SET. IT
    WILL COST THEM DEARLY !!!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    A split against the Rays in a day night doubleheader when you are missing 3 regulars to injuries including your 4 and 5 hitter(i know Youk played game 1, but he is clearly hurting) was as good a result as you could hope for. I am pretty sure you substitute Francona's name for all the other managers in the league, and you would see similar posts on every teams board, posted by irrational posters who think there team despite things the manager cant control, should win every game. Is Francona perfect...No...does he make decisions that dont work out sometime...everyone does...he is going to win 95+ games...and the same posters who are saying he costs us games are the same posters who are always complaining that we have lousy starting pitching....so he must be doing something right

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team? : well, you are partially right. 'coma shouldn't be the only one bashed; i think there should be some good time bashing of epstein, who is responsible for whom 'coma has to choose from. here's a question for sexdog: are all boneheads 'coma bashers, or are all 'coma bashers boneheads? and is tito himself a bonehead? and how about theo? spending 220 million for slackey and jd crawford; doesn't that get theo into the bonehead HOF? food for thought.
    Posted by -theyazzer-[/QUOTE]

    hey azz...the tito bashers out there know who they are...they criticize the manager for every Sox loss and even some of their wins - so the bonehead comments apply to them (You??)

    Regarding Epstein...well he just put together a team that is 27 games over .500 despite the underacheiving of Lackey and Crawford. Wow 220 million for 2 players...that seems very Yankee to me...oh wait they spend that on 1 player!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team? : hey azz...the tito bashers out there know who they are...they criticize the manager for every Sox loss and even some of their wins - so the bonehead comments apply to them (You??) Regarding Epstein...well he just put together a team that is 27 games over .500 despite the underacheiving of Lackey and Crawford. Wow 220 million for 2 players...that seems very Yankee to me...oh wait they spend that on 1 player!
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]


    slackey + crawford = <1
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team? : slackey + crawford = <1
    Posted by -theyazzer-[/QUOTE]

    Them who live in glass houses should not throw stones...Burnett <= Lackey.

    I will withhold judgement on Crawford right now although he has been a major disappointment so far this year. He is definitely having transition issues in 2011, but he is a better player than what we've seen so far.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    Soxdog, these clowns don't read the news or watch pregame or postgame. The only thing that matters to them is their troll act. Trolls need not be educated or informed since it matters not if they win or lose a debate. Their mission is to annoy - nothing else.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

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    In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?:
    [QUOTE]Soxdog, these clowns don't read the news or watch pregame or postgame. The only thing that matters to them is their troll act. Trolls need not be educated or informed since it matters not if they win or lose a debate. Their mission is to annoy - nothing else.
    Posted by PawsoxPhil[/QUOTE]

    hmm, pawsex and sexdog. coincidence? i don't think so.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team? : dick williams, right now, is still a better manager than Francona....
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    For one game or even one season, maybe, but history has firmly established that Williams was never a long term manager for any team.  He was Boston's version of Billy Martin, who was I believed hired and fired five times by Steinbrenner. 

    Francona remains beyond a doubt that best manager the Sox have ever had. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    Stand still Yazzer with that apple on your head. Papelbon can be erratic occasionally with that bow and arrow.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

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    [QUOTE]Does anyone in the Red Sox nation feel comfortable in August with a manger whose philosophy is that just making the playoffs is what's important? For just once I would love to hear him say winning the division is important...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    He hasn't commented either way this season.  Wild card teams do pretty good in the playoffs-see the Sox in 2004.

    This year it looks as though winning the AL East will be useful, so I am sure Francona wants to do that.  But he will never do what you want him to do--manage every single game as though it's the only game being played this season.  He will also never meet your managerial standard, which is never to lose any games. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team? : He hasn't commented either way this season.  Wild card teams do pretty good in the playoffs-see the Sox in 2004. This year it looks as though winning the AL East will be useful, so I am sure Francona wants to do that.  But he will never do what you want him to do--manage every single game as though it's the only game being played this season.  He will also never meet your managerial standard, which is never to lose any games. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]


    actually, i have only one managerial standard: managing the team while they're on the field. 'coma hasn't got a clue.
    however, his clubhouse managing is second to none.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    Sign off and return using your Bosox1941 moniker. You are over-exposing the Yazzer mumbo jumbo.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?:
    [QUOTE]Sign off and return using your Bosox1941 moniker. You are over-exposing the Yazzer mumbo jumbo.
    Posted by PawsoxPhil[/QUOTE]


    have you seen your shadow yet?
    btw, groundhog, i have two bad pieces of news for you:

    1) granderson will win mvp.

    2) my beloved red sox will not make it to the playoffs this year.
        the pitching and the hitting will be going down the crapper together.

    the good news is: both theo and tito will be fired after the season's over.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    You need a subscription to Netflix and to put it onto your office computer. Your boss has written you off anyway as a productive employee. Have you seen Full Metal Jacket?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team? : have you seen your shadow yet? btw, groundhog, i have two bad pieces of news for you: 1) granderson will win mvp. 2) my beloved red sox will not make it to the playoffs this year.     the pitching and the hitting will be going down the crapper together. the good news is: both theo and tito will be fired after the season's over.
    Posted by -theyazzer-[/QUOTE]

    correct on 1,  incorrect on 2,  incorrect on 3.  Not bad: .333 is a decent batting average.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?

    In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: How many games has Francona cost this team? : actually, i have only one managerial standard: managing the team while they're on the field. 'coma hasn't got a clue. however, his clubhouse managing is second to none.
    Posted by -theyazzer-[/QUOTE]

    And your "managing the team while they're on the field" standard is that they never lose a game.  And 90% of what you accuse him of failing to do is uninformed conjecture, usually based on 20-20 hindsight. 

    I will cite just one small example.  Had you been a Dodgers fan in 1951 when Bobby Thomson hit the home run heard around the world, you would have given him absolutely no credit.  You would have instead called it, "the stupidest mistake a Dodger manager ever made, sending Ralph Branca out there to pitch to Bobby Thomson.  And, once he did send him out, he should have walked Thomson and pitched to that punk kid in the on deck circle."  Or something like that.

    What you and georom and bosox1941 and a few others can never acknowledge is that most of the time the players decide who wins and who loses.  Yesterday, for example, the Sox were actually lucky to get that split because the Rays pitching was dominant and I think gave up 6 hits in two games.  Fortunately, Ellsbury hit that semi-miraculous dinger in the first game, and Lester went a very gutsy 7 innings, giving up 1 run, and Bard and Papelbon finished things off.  Sox won a game they were very lucky to win. 

    Last night the Sox weren't so lucky.  Lowrie made a bonehead throw which cost two crucial early runs.  Without it, the Tek and Ellsbury dingers would have put the Sox up 2-1 when Bedard came out after the 6th.  But, again, the real problem was that the Sox, especially Gonzalez, Pedroia, and Crawford, weren't hitting, and Youk and Ortiz were out.  The point is, Francona didn't make that bad throw, and he never went to bat or make a single pitch.  The players lost that game--or the Rays players won it. 

    But in your view every single loss can attributed to one thing and one thing only--Francona didn't have the right guys on the field in the right places. 

     

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