http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I called someone a "dude" just the other day here...  Cool

    [/QUOTE]


    Thanks.... You know that family attacking ( Dude !!! ) just doesn't get it......Cool

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I liked S5 here before his involvement with the frat. His posting has certainly changed. I'm not saying he's wrong, just that the old S5 wouldn't have even been involved in this exchange.

    FTR I noticed the difference when he came into a thread I posted on and said I lived in my mom's basement. Again, the old S5 that I know, or thought I knew, would never have made that comment. JMO

    [/QUOTE]

    You're right... and at the same time not right. 

    Right in that I reacted to what I considered a disrespectful post toward me.  It was a knee-jerk reaction to being offended and I apologize to anyone and everyone who had to read it.  I should (and usually do) know better than to engage in something like that in that it drags two people down to the same level.   

    However, it has nothing to do with "the fraternity".  "The fraternity" (a phrase coined by Pike, btw) is nothing more than a small-ish group of posters who gather in a chat room to discuss the game in progress.  Speaking entirely for myself (who else?) I became a part of this chat group because I prefer the chat format to the "Game threads" format.   It's that simple.  Nothing more, nothing less. 

    It's my wish that you not judge me at all, and certainly not on the basis on one incident.  I'm the same S5.. I just lost my head there for a minute.  Sealed Wink

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    Group Hug!  Group Hug!  Laughing

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    I prefer to use annual salary when discussing long term contracts. Pedroia, I think has signed for $110 mil. over eight years which is about $14 mil. per year. Ellsbury with his skill set deserves about $16 mil. per year IMO if he can stay healthy. Using that figure a five year contract should be $80 mil. or a six year contract should be $96 mil. 

    Pedey is a GG 2Bman and had a better OPS than Ellsbury this year (an off year).

    Ellsbury finished 7th on his own team in OPS this year and was just .010 ahead of the 9th best player on the team.

    Yes, his speed adds much value to his portfolio, but I'd never pay close to $100M for a career .789 OPS and .781 2013 OPS guy.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if someone says "your mommy tucks you in" on an Internet forum, and your mom in fact died in REAL LIFE you will get offended? Please man. 

    The fact nobody here really knows each other and that we certainly don't know peoples moms or dads are alive should make it obvious there was no true harm intended.

    U2 must have a deep history here so perhaps I should refrain from injecting.  S5 wasn't delving into your true family history. You are only donrd here and he is only S5 (sounds like a inter-galactic space colony not a real person).

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What you don't know you don't say. Never ever bring family into forum ... For what? You tell me why it's ok ? Just because you don't know is not the right answer......

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    I understand. I have never rmentioned my family here once. I felt compelled recently to talk about my family in order to try and show another poster I was not anything like they claimed. Yet I stood firm and decided to stick to not talking about family.

    I did look at the mom comment no different than Bill's dad comments. Sort of playground material. Anyhow I see how you feel. Understood.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to S5's comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I liked S5 here before his involvement with the frat. His posting has certainly changed. I'm not saying he's wrong, just that the old S5 wouldn't have even been involved in this exchange.

    FTR I noticed the difference when he came into a thread I posted on and said I lived in my mom's basement. Again, the old S5 that I know, or thought I knew, would never have made that comment. JMO



    You're right... and at the same time not right. 

    Right in that I reacted to what I considered a disrespectful post toward me.  It was a knee-jerk reaction to being offended and I apologize to anyone and everyone who had to read it.  I should (and usually do) know better than to engage in something like that in that it drags two people down to the same level.   

    However, it has nothing to do with "the fraternity".  "The fraternity" (a phrase coined by Pike, btw) is nothing more than a small-ish group of posters who gather in a chat room to discuss the game in progress.  Speaking entirely for myself (who else?) I became a part of this chat group because I prefer the chat format to the "Game threads" format.   It's that simple.  Nothing more, nothing less. 

    It's my wish that you not judge me at all, and certainly not on the basis on one incident.  I'm the same S5.. I just lost my head there for a minute.  Sealed Wink

    [/QUOTE]


    JFTR the "frat" term was not coined by Pike. People in the frat refer to the name it's given "fratchat" on the board all the time. And everyone is entitled to losing their head or arguing with posters once in a while (see Kimsaysthis). Smile 

    As I said in my post, I was also referencing a post where, out of nowhere, you slammed me with "she lives in her mom's basement". I thanked you for that comment, if you remember. All these posts together, recently, was what caught my attention since I've been familiar with you and your posts here for awhile.

    Anyway, carry on. It's really not my place to question your judgements. Really just an observation.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So if someone says "your mommy tucks you in" on an Internet forum, and your mom in fact died in REAL LIFE you will get offended? Please man. 

    The fact nobody here really knows each other and that we certainly don't know peoples moms or dads are alive should make it obvious there was no true harm intended.

    U2 must have a deep history here so perhaps I should refrain from injecting.  S5 wasn't delving into your true family history. You are only donrd here and he is only S5 (sounds like a inter-galactic space colony not a real person).

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What you don't know you don't say. Never ever bring family into forum ... For what? You tell me why it's ok ? Just because you don't know is not the right answer......

    [/QUOTE]


    Here's an idea.

    If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

    You started with the insults.

    You deserved what you got in return.

    Quit whining.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    For me I would trade for Cliff Lee and spend the money saved on him.

    I think the Phils might go for Salary relief and a prospect or two or John Lackey.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to LagunaJose's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I prefer to use annual salary when discussing long term contracts. Pedroia, I think has signed for $110 mil. over eight years which is about $14 mil. per year. Ellsbury with his skill set deserves about $16 mil. per year IMO if he can stay healthy. Using that figure a five year contract should be $80 mil. or a six year contract should be $96 mil. 

    Pedey is a GG 2Bman and had a better OPS than Ellsbury this year (an off year).

    Ellsbury finished 7th on his own team in OPS this year and was just .010 ahead of the 9th best player on the team.

    Yes, his speed adds much value to his portfolio, but I'd never pay close to $100M for a career .789 OPS and .781 2013 OPS guy.

    [/QUOTE]

    What is a healthy Ellsbury worth per year in your opinion?

    [/QUOTE]

    $16-18M if healthy for the first 2-3 years, then decline to about $13-16M/yr by year 6.

    I have never used his injuries to lessen his value, except for pointing out that he brought some it on himself by not calling off Beltre, but his health does concern me a bit.

    If I knew he'd never miss a game in 6 years due to injury, I might pay $96M/6, but even then, I'd have to think long and hard about it and compare it to alternate plans of allocating that kind of money.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For me I would trade for Cliff Lee and spend the money saved on him.

    I think the Phils might go for Salary relief and a prospect or two or John Lackey.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would not trade for Cliff Lee and get rid of Lackey.  if Lackey pitched so well, why not to keep that confidence guy for the next year team!!   How you know Cliff Lee have the confidence to pitch in the city of Boston??

    That is not how it work.  And you are saying that Boston should help Phils to have salary relief?   Boston isnt going to help anyone for salary relief.  Boston is the one need to get rid few guys for a salary relief such as Dempster and Bailey!!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc1944. Show MadMc1944's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For me I would trade for Cliff Lee and spend the money saved on him.

    I think the Phils might go for Salary relief and a prospect or two or John Lackey.

    [/QUOTE]

    I would not trade for Cliff Lee and get rid of Lackey.  if Lackey pitched so well, why not to keep that confidence guy for the next year team!!   How you know Cliff Lee have the confidence to pitch in the city of Boston??

    That is not how it work.  And you are saying that Boston should help Phils to have salary relief?   Boston isnt going to help anyone for salary relief.  Boston is the one need to get rid few guys for a salary relief such as Dempster and Bailey!!

    [/QUOTE]

    UConn---trade a player while they have value. It's Lackey  or Buch or Dempster plus a prospect or  Doubie even up for Lee and we pay Lee's salary.

    Lee is a legit starter---yes he costs more--he has proven himself in the NL and AL. He and Lester and Buch or Lackey would be a tough three msn rotation add in Santana or Ubaldo and you have a solid starting staff. It's all about the pitching and being solid up the middle.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    it could happen that Boston could retain him!!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    When do you stop giving 100 MIL contracts?  And how long before all your 100 mil players end up like Yankees ..... Stuck with huge contracts and back to the bottom we fall...... How many teams have  spent Millions to sign a superstar thats going to send them to the promised land??... Guess what ? ...STUCK..... For years to come and no championships to boot.. Sox can spend millions like you want ,but when the  millions fail..... Don't turn around and blame Management...... You Fans can blame your wishes that Sox  should sign 100 million +player for what he did yesturday in ( HOPE? ) he does same in the future. The Sox got burnt before and if they spend spend spend.....and fail ......Then you fans have only yourselves to point the finger at ...Because thats the way you wanted it.........

    [/QUOTE]

    Ellsbury is not worth $100M. His career OPS is .789 skewed a bit by his career year in 2011 when it was .928, a feat he is unlikely to repeat. He is injured a lot and has a poor throwing arm. I would love to keep him, but not for more than $15M for four years plus a team option for a fifth and maybe some incentive $$ that could bring his salary up to where Pence is ($18M/yr) based on playing time. Thats not likely to get it done. I think the FO knows very well that a contract over 4-5 years is risky too. And given that Borass is his agent, I think he has played his last game in our uniform.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'd love to have Ells stay but with Boras and money the number one concern?. Boras treats his boys like a slab of exspensive meat. Let me throw them to the wolves and see if that want to pay for london broil or filet mignon. Don't forget meat rots after a while......

    [/QUOTE]

    huh?  ellsbury hired Boras for a reason - to help him make as much money as possible In FA  It's Ellsbury that wants to get paid.  And if I were as brittle as Ells, I'd go for the cash.  Who knows how many more contracts Ells will get.  The knock on Boras is how he negotiates.  But dont blame Boras for doing what his clients higher him to do.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to MadMc1944's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I would not trade for Cliff Lee and get rid of Lackey.  if Lackey pitched so well, why not to keep that confidence guy for the next year team!!   How you know Cliff Lee have the confidence to pitch in the city of Boston??

    That is not how it work.  And you are saying that Boston should help Phils to have salary relief?   Boston isnt going to help anyone for salary relief.  Boston is the one need to get rid few guys for a salary relief such as Dempster and Bailey!!

    [/QUOTE]

    UConn---trade a player while they have value. It's Lackey  or Buch or Dempster plus a prospect or  Doubie even up for Lee and we pay Lee's salary.

    Lee is a legit starter---yes he costs more--he has proven himself in the NL and AL. He and Lester and Buch or Lackey would be a tough three msn rotation add in Santana or Ubaldo and you have a solid starting staff. It's all about the pitching and being solid up the middle.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't understand this rationale of trading a low-salaried player while he's playing well and has value. That's WHY he has value, so why make him someone else's good deal? 

    Lackey was very arguably the #2 pitcher on the staff this year.  He had the second highest number of starts, pitched the second highest number of innings this year and had the lowest ERA on the staff and a WHIP of 1.16!  Why would you trade a guy with those numbers??  Do you really think whomever you pick up is going to be better??  I can support trading for Cliff Lee, but not at the expense of trading our #2 pitcher, and if that's what it takes, then it's No Deal. 

    The 'solid up the middle' still concerns me and probably will until (and maybe after) the Sox start signing people.  At this moment the only 'up the middle' player we have signed is Pedroia, with Salty, Drew, and Ellsbury being FA's.  While IMO they will start the '14 with an experienced catcher (Salty?, Ross?  Drew? McCann?) the thought of two rookies - Bogarts @ SS & JBJ in CF - gives me severe pause. 

    Starting pitching is NOT the problem right now.  Position players are.  And if you have to trade a #4 or a #5 (or even a #3) for the right player then DO it, but leave the top two alone. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to Kingface12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I liked S5 here before his involvement with the frat. His posting has certainly changed. I'm not saying he's wrong, just that the old S5 wouldn't have even been involved in this exchange.

    FTR I noticed the difference when he came into a thread I posted on and said I lived in my mom's basement. Again, the old S5 that I know, or thought I knew, would never have made that comment. JMO

    [/QUOTE]

    There's a fraternity on an on-line sports community??  How cool!!  Can I join??  How do I go through the hazing process?  When I was in college we had to do some funky s&^t with olives that never bears repeating.......ahhhhhhhh the 80's.  What a fun time.

    [/QUOTE]


    next season I will send you the PRIVATE link when we get the room.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

    I liked S5 here before his involvement with the frat. His posting has certainly changed. I'm not saying he's wrong, just that the old S5 wouldn't have even been involved in this exchange.

    FTR I noticed the difference when he came into a thread I posted on and said I lived in my mom's basement. Again, the old S5 that I know, or thought I knew, would never have made that comment. JMO



    "JFTR the "frat" term was not coined by Pike. People in the frat refer to the name it's given "fratchat" on the board all the time"

    Funny, you werent posting on BDC when we got the chat room. Pike actually gave us that name because he was jealous he wasnt invited. We didnt name ourselves that. it was PIKE who started referring to us under that name here on BDC. We ran with it...For someone that has been away for a while, you sure think you know everything. Sorry, you are wrong.

    Also, S5 is a good person and Im sure he could care less what you think of him. Save your judgements.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from patrickford. Show patrickford's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    I've got a great idea. Let Ellbury walk pick up the draft pick, and then sign someone who is going to be at least as expensive and give up a draft pick in the process. 

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    In response to donrd4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    it could happen that Boston could retain him!!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    When do you stop giving 100 MIL contracts?  And how long before all your 100 mil players end up like Yankees ..... Stuck with huge contracts and back to the bottom we fall...... How many teams have  spent Millions to sign a superstar thats going to send them to the promised land??... Guess what ? ...STUCK..... For years to come and no championships to boot.. Sox can spend millions like you want ,but when the  millions fail..... Don't turn around and blame Management...... You Fans can blame your wishes that Sox  should sign 100 million +player for what he did yesturday in ( HOPE? ) he does same in the future. The Sox got burnt before and if they spend spend spend.....and fail ......Then you fans have only yourselves to point the finger at ...Because thats the way you wanted it.........

    [/QUOTE] Don, it's not like you or any other Sox fan was holding the pen...i seriously doubt if FO's across MLB are taking their cues from fan boards..


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/09/red-sox-may-not-go-far-past-100mm-to-retain-ellsbury.html

    Fair enough. Good response. I  would like $80 mil. over five years.

     

    That's about what I think, and he will get better elsewhere.

    We gain a draft pick and use the money to sign 2-3 players to shorter term deals and then another 2-3 players a few years down the line... all for the $100M it would have cost to keep Jacoby here.

    We could possibly gain 3 draft picks, make a trade or two, and try to get by without signing one QO player, and still be a good contender in 2014.

    In this new era of the draft, getting 4 early draft picks could be the most by any team we see for years and years to come.

     

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