I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PlaytheAnglesCharlie. Show PlaytheAnglesCharlie's posts

    I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    I liked Crawford but not for that kind of money. I said this when they signed him last offseason. I said I'd rather not have him for that kind of moneey, I got ripped because people looked at the potential of the player and not the money. They just looked at where he could be plugged in the lineup and NOT how this will affect the Sox years after.

    Well only one year later this signing is hurting the Sox sign other free agents because of this large contract.

    My biggest question is why didn't the Sox learn their lesson with Manny's contract? How about all those years of complaining about it and trying to get rid of him and he was productive on the field.

    Crawford should get better but he'll never justify his contract.

    Why is it the Sox stand hard on NOT signing relievers to three year plus contracts because its a smart baseball move BUT then sign a player like Crawford to a long huge contract and fall into the trap of overpaying the best available free agent pitcher (Lackey)?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

       Almost all FA signings are overpaid, that's the cost of business, not saying it's right but that is the reality. Werth, Crawford, Dunn, last year. This year Pujols Buerhle, you can go back to the 70's and you'll find examples Steve Stone comes to mind. The team that does the signing in many ways is paying for past seasons success than for future production.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    Crawford will never deserve his salary because RS fans will never let last year go.Even if he hits 300 with 15 HR and 100 RBI and 40 SB next year RS fans will go back to last year as the reason he will never earn his pay. They will say he still owes them for 2011.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    In Response to I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.:
    [QUOTE]I liked Crawford but not for that kind of money. I said this when they signed him last offseason. I said I'd rather not have him for that kind of moneey, I got ripped because people looked at the potential of the player and not the money. They just looked at where he could be plugged in the lineup and NOT how this will affect the Sox years after. Well only one year later this signing is hurting the Sox sign other free agents because of this large contract. My biggest question is why didn't the Sox learn their lesson with Manny's contract? Posted by PlayTheAngleCharlie[/QUOTE]

    You are aware that the Red Sox don't win EITHER WORLD SERIES TITLE without "Manny," right?

    Wow.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    In Response to Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.:
    [QUOTE]Crawford will never deserve his salary because RS fans will never let last year go.Even if he hits 300 with 15 HR and 100 RBI and 40 SB next year RS fans will go back to last year as the reason he will never earn his pay. They will say he still owes them for 2011.
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Crawford needs to at least match his 2010 production every season to be worth his contract.  I don't see that happening.  He, like many other FA's, got a contract that overpays him, it isn't his fault, but I would certainly like to see improvement over the 2011 season.  His defense should certainly improve as he gets more familiar with the Monster.  His offensive numbers should improve coming off of a near career low BABIP, a career low OBP, and his lowest OPS since 2003.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    My biggest question is why didn't the Sox learn their lesson with Manny's contract? How about all those years of complaining about it and trying to get rid of him and he was productive on the field.

    I'd sign that contract again.
    I'd sign the Drew contract again.
    I'd sign the Foulke and Damon contracts again.

    Like someone else said, if you have to outbid 29 other teams for someone's services, you are very unlikely to get your money back.  You do it because it is impossible to perfectly match your minor leagues with your major league needs.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    In Response to Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.:
    [QUOTE]My biggest question is why didn't the Sox learn their lesson with Manny's contract? How about all those years of complaining about it and trying to get rid of him and he was productive on the field. I'd sign that contract again. I'd sign the Drew contract again. I'd sign the Foulke and Damon contracts again. Like someone else said, if you have to outbid 29 other teams for someone's services, you are very unlikely to get your money back.  You do it because it is impossible to perfectly match your minor leagues with your major league needs.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
    I would have never gave Drew 5 years he was going to sign with the Sox one or another. Damon recieved 4 years 12 million and was considered overpaid. The Sox were very lucky the Dodger did not file tampering charges. The only reason he opted out was because he knew had a contract with the Sox.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    In Response to I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.:
    [QUOTE]I liked Crawford but not for that kind of money. I said this when they signed him last offseason. I said I'd rather not have him for that kind of moneey, I got ripped because people looked at the potential of the player and not the money. They just looked at where he could be plugged in the lineup and NOT how this will affect the Sox years after. Well only one year later this signing is hurting the Sox sign other free agents because of this large contract. My biggest question is why didn't the Sox learn their lesson with Manny's contract? How about all those years of complaining about it and trying to get rid of him and he was productive on the field. Crawford should get better but he'll never justify his contract. Why is it the Sox stand hard on NOT signing relievers to three year plus contracts because its a smart baseball move BUT then sign a player like Crawford to a long huge contract and fall into the trap of overpaying the best available free agent pitcher (Lackey)?
    Posted by PlayTheAngleCharlie[/QUOTE]

    FAily ignorant post.

    Most fans, even the ones who like Crawfrod, did not like his contract.

    Manny was actually one of the most productive free agents on a long term deal in MLB history.  He had one "off" year - 2007, and then had a rough 8th year when he was holding out for extensions.  But he certainly wasn't like most long term free agents.  Name another one who had 6 good years on a deal 8 years or longer....
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    Most FA are looking for long term security in years or "No Trade" provisions. I believe they identify where they would like to play and how much they want to make. If you submit the right number and you are the right city, bingo.

    Although Werth is not as good as CC--if the Nationals called today I would trade CC--he fits better in DC and Werth fits better in Boston--RF, good arm, will adjust  to playing in Fenway.

    If Bard wants to be a starter I would trade him for a good closer. Ex.-Bailey and a prospect. The A's are going to finish last in the AL West they can afford to experiment with Bard as a starter the Sox can't and he's not "The" closer we need. If he becomes a good starter--like Masterson, #1 starter in '12 for Cleveland--we got what we needed the A's got what they needed.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    In Response to Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.:
    [QUOTE]   Almost all FA signings are overpaid, that's the cost of business, not saying it's right but that is the reality. Werth, Crawford, Dunn, last year. This year Pujols Buerhle, you can go back to the 70's and you'll find examples Steve Stone comes to mind. The team that does the signing in many ways is paying for past seasons success than for future production.
    Posted by attic-dan[/QUOTE]

    True. And I blame the Yanks, Sox, Angels and Rangers for that. If these 4 teams were more responsible, baseball salaries across the board would be more reasonable. Maybe Baltimore belongs on that list too, but they've paid their price for irresponsible spending.

    But those 4 teams, especially the Yanks and Sox (Angels more recently, Rangers less so recently) have driven player cost up, and kept it there.

    The Sox showed restraint ONE TIME, and I forever will applaud them for it: Mark Texeira. They didn't bow to the extra 5-10%, they said "enough is enough, F you". They need to take a page from Belichick's book: Assign a max value to a player, be objective (unlike with Drew, renteria, lugo, totally biased), and STICK TO IT. Craword's contract should be on LAA right now, and the Sox would've had money for, say...CJ Wilson? Jose Reyes?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    Was Renteria overpayed in your mind at the moment of the signing in your mind or did you decide so later on?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    In Response to Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers. : True. And I blame the Yanks, Sox, Angels and Rangers for that. If these 4 teams were more responsible, baseball salaries across the board would be more reasonable. Maybe Baltimore belongs on that list too, but they've paid their price for irresponsible spending. But those 4 teams, especially the Yanks and Sox (Angels more recently, Rangers less so recently) have driven player cost up, and kept it there. The Sox showed restraint ONE TIME, and I forever will applaud them for it: Mark Texeira. They didn't bow to the extra 5-10%, they said "enough is enough, F you". They need to take a page from Belichick's book: Assign a max value to a player, be objective (unlike with Drew, renteria, lugo, totally biased), and STICK TO IT. Craword's contract should be on LAA right now, and the Sox would've had money for, say...CJ Wilson? Jose Reyes?
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    Because the Sox have never used the Patriots' model... that is, assigning a value and sticking to it.  Like Johnny Damon... and Pedro Martinez... and Jason Bay... and Texeira... and even Lowell, who came back for less than offered in Philly... and, and..

    The fact is the Sox most definitely do this, sometimes to their detriment (Damon).

    And you would rather have the C J Wilson you saw in this year's playoffs for $77 million?  I wouldn't.

    Last year Werth was probably a better fit but DC gave him the moon.  It happens.  Its been said that when you have to outbid 29 other teams for a player, he's probably going to be overpaid.  The Sox desperately needed another OFer. I'm not getting on their case for opening the wallet and getting Crawford, the best one on the market.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    In Response to Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.:
    [QUOTE]They need to take a page from Belichick's book: Assign a max value to a player, be objective (unlike with Drew, renteria, lugo, totally biased), and STICK TO IT. Craword's contract should be on LAA right now, and the Sox would've had money for, say...CJ Wilson? Jose Reyes?
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    So what if Wilson and/or Reyes turn out to be overpaid busts?  All you're really saying is, we made the wrong bet on the roulette wheel.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    Yes, Renteria was overpaid at that time in my opinion. 10 per put him, what? #4 highest paid SS at that time? That's including ARod even though he shifted over. He wasn't worth that.

    Sure, the Sox have done it in the past, when have they stuck to their guns in the past 3-4 years aside from Texeira?

    Beckett?

    Crawford?

    Lackey?

    Cameron?

    Jenks?

    Lowell? (that contract was a total reaction to fans and WS MVP and was too much in years and money, again, my thoughts were the same at that time)

    They didn't want Jason Bay is my feeling, at any money. I'm not alone in those thoughts, they offered him a contract they were sure he wouldn't accept, and when he was going to, they added the injury clauses and scared him off.

    Damon is a good example, one that didn't work out.

    Pedro is another good example, one that did work out.

    So, good job, you've shown me 2 examples that the Sox actually stuck to their value...

    Care to explain the 5 I listed above and what they were doing then other than driving prices up across the sport and crippling themselves?

    Not only did the Sox make a wrong bet, they put a significant amount of their chips on that bad bet. A bet MOST people widely questioned at the time. I guess time will tell on Wilson and Reyes. I would have passed on Wilson too, but do we need a left handed hitting OFer, or another starter more right now? If I had to choose one or the other, it would be Wilson. Reyes would have been my choice. Prime age, solid ML career to date, good leadoff hitter if needed, long term SS. TIme will tell, but I would MUCH rather bet on Reyes and the length of that deal than Crawford. Not even close really. At the same money, I'd still choose Reyes. At the same years, probably STILL Reyes.

    But all that doesn't matter because the Sox left themselves 0 options, as they tend to do lately, as proven by bringing back Ortiz AGAIN and clogging up the DH spot. Now they are left with a 120 game Youk, or trading him, neither a good choice.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from crmn19. Show crmn19's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    My biggest question is why didn't the Sox learn their lesson with Manny's contract? How about all those years of complaining about it and trying to get rid of him and he was productive on the field.


    Manny's years with Cleveland, upon which the Sox based their contract, were duplicated almost to the exact numbers in Boston and you toss in two WS titles.  From a bang for the buck perspective, they got what they paid for with Manny, which is much more than can be said for most big free agent contracts.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    In Response to Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers. : I would have never gave Drew 5 years he was going to sign with the Sox one or another. Damon recieved 4 years 12 million and was considered overpaid. The Sox were very lucky the Dodger did not file tampering charges. The only reason he opted out was because he knew had a contract with the Sox.
    Posted by BosoxJoe5[/QUOTE]

    Damon signed with Sox for 4 years at 32 million, not 12 million.  He was not overpaid.  He earned every dollar and helped Sox break the curse.  Drew hit 70 million dollar HR vs. Cleveland.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.

    In Response to Re: I wish the Sox would be wiser in their contract offers.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The fact is the Sox most definitely do this, sometimes to their detriment (Damon). And you would rather have the C J Wilson you saw in this year's playoffs for $77 million?  I wouldn't.Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]

    At least CJ Wilson was in the playoffs...Beckett et al were busy celebrating on the sidelines with beer and chicken.  CJ for $77 mil looks like a super bargain compaired to Beckett's contract or Lackey's contract. 
     

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