Just curious

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Just curious

    Does Francona get credit for the team's .700 plus winning percentage in July?

    My only issue with Francona is that the team seemed to peak too early.  I know a lot of "fans" think the team should win at a consistent pace, but I'm not one of them.  I think a play off team should be playing their best at the end of the season. 

    It's not rational to expect a team to perform at an extremely high level for an extended period of time.  They just can't do it.  They'll get mentally and physically fatigued.  That's what I think happened in August after a scorching hot July.  Hopefully, they can use the first part of September to get rejuvenized and the last part of September to get focused.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Just curious

    My personal vote, if I had one, would go to Girardi. What that team has done with that rotation (C.C. then pray) is pretty remarkable. But Tito has done a great job keeping the team together after an awful start.

    Also, being there are 20some games left, I reserve the right to change my vote later!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTJake14. Show CTJake14's posts

    Re: Just curious

    Really it's a problem of perception.  Most fans have no idea just how hard it is to get tactics in a baseball game correct even 90% of the time, let alone 100%.  And all the data they have only make it harder.  Look at every situation that can happen, decide what's best, and then be right.  I managed a semi-pro men's league team for 8 years and I can tell you that even though I played at a high-level before that, and have seen many, many situations, it's incredibly easy to make mistakes and not anticipate every possible outcome.  It's made that much harder by the relationships you have with your players.  You want guys to succeed, you expect them to do things the right way, and as a result sometimes you leave a pitcher out there too long or you don't tell a guy to take a strike when you're down 2 runs late because you simply expect him to know to do that.  When that guy is overcome w/ the desire to win the game w/ one swing and flies out on the first pitch, is it your fault?  A guy can't be a baseball computer out there and never make the wrong call.  But certainly, if removed from under the microscope, Francona's performance is very well represented in the outcomes/"what's not to like?" post from the first page.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Just curious

    The only way Girardi has had a positive impact on the Yankees rotation is if he's personally swabbing the injection site on Colon and Garcia's behinds.  He's gotten nothing from Hughes or Burnett.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Just curious

    In Response to Re: Just curious:
    [QUOTE]The only way Girardi has had a positive impact on the Yankees rotation is if he's personally swabbing the injection site on Colon and Garcia's behinds.  He's gotten nothing from Hughes or Burnett.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    Never said he had a "positive impact" on the rotation. I said he's done an outstanding job of managing a team to the second-best record in baseball despite having only one starting pitcher I'd consider quality -- though you could make the argument that Nova has arrived.


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Just curious

    Francona in not unlike every manager in baseball he gets too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose...lucky for him the sox win close to 60% of the time so the good outweighs the bad...

    Is Francona a good manager? I think his record speaks for iteself and he is also held in high regard within the baseball community by both his former and current players & coaches...Tell me how many guys in the league today are entering thier 9 year at the helm of the same team? It's a pretty short list...

    The reason Francona was hired to replace Grady Little was becasue he shared the same phylosophical approach to the game as did Epstein. Which in a short was the moneyball approach using stats and scouting reports to help make in game decsions, while respecting the lessons learned on the field...Francona, was seen as the perfect blend of an oldschool guy that embraced new age tools and was familar with the tools and style of play and the sytems that the sox wanted to implement, while working for the A's...

    Since arriving he's developted a very good working relantionship with Epstein, is held in high regard by the owner of the team and his job security is based on results, not loyalties or past accomplishments...

    As I understand it the Sox mission is to field a team capable of qualifying for the post season every year with the ulitmate prize of winning the World Series...If at anytime Epstein or Henry feel as though Francona is not up to the task of leading the team or that the team on par is underachieving due to his lack of leadership. He'll be on the outside looking in...

    Because in the end it's about building the brand and increasing shareholder value...Henry know's the best way to do that is to win...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Just curious

    You must tip your hat to PSchuller for being a consistent headstrong poster.
    http://www.boston.com/community/persona.html?UID=e59be512dd2a8b12ced7f5735a529800&plckUserId=e59be512dd2a8b12ced7f5735a529800
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Just curious

    In Response to Re: Just curious:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just curious : I think the coach does motivate at lower levels -- youth leagues, high school, maybe even college. But at the professional level, we're talking about grown men, some well into their 30s. If they need someone to motivate them to play, they're a lost cause. I see a manager's job simply that -- as managing the team. Keeping everyone healthy, figuring out the right combinations, and keeping harmony in the clubhouse. Tito is a master at that, in my opinion. I think on-field strategy is often overrated ... in fact, it's usually scripted. At least that's my take.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough, but many get well into their late thirties even and have not grown up enough to manage themselves (e.g one Manny Ramirez). I don't think age is the issue, but I do concede that it would be difficult for a manager to motivate individual players who are not able to motivate themselves. I was thinking more about the (difficult) art of getting a team motivated day after day, but maybe in baseball that would be particularly difficult. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Just curious

    The days of managers like Dick Williams and Billy Martin who motivated their players through fear, attacks, and discipline are over. The drill instructor act doesn't work anymore. The players are grown men who don't respond to intimidation but instead react to respect to the manager. Basically the team morale is determined by the collective attitudes of its players. This isn't the military with General Patton in charge. I'm getting sick of OPs like this.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Just curious

    In Response to Re: Just curious:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just curious : I'ts a lot harder finding someone who will talk about Tito in a balanced way than to see the countless corncob jobs people give him here. That is precisely the point. I have given up hoping that Tito will learn how to be a good tactical manager, because it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks, and all I am doing is asking a legitimate question, in a balanced way, for anyone who might want to address it, in a balanced way. (And BTW, anyone who thinks that is trolling is also an old dog who can't be taught new tricks.)
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]

    OK, first you say he isn't a good tactical manager then complain that you can't get an answer in a balanced way. Hmmm ... wonder why. It seems like your mind is already made up that anyone who isn't agreeing with you and your premise isn't addressing the question in a balanced way. And I wonder, did you type "ask a legitimate question in a balanced way" with a straight face?

    The problem right off the bat is your statement that Francona "isn't a good tactical manager." Why? Because he makes moves or non-moves that you don't agree with. A bit full of yourself, don't you think?

    Francona does play small ball on occasion. Because he doesn't play it more -- that makes him a bad tactical manager? Was Earl Weaver a bad tactical manager? He abhored small ball. Stats show small ball is a low percentage way of playing so it's an organizational philosophy. Why is that so hard to understand?

    How many times has a team played small ball against the Red Sox and it didn't work? How about most of the times, although critics will only remember the couple of times it worked.

    What about tactical moves we don't see, like defensive placement? Just because there isn't a dramatic shift, doesn't mean he he isn't positioning the defense based on scouting reports.

    And the critics who whine about changing pitchers truly have their heads up in the sand (or elsewhere)? All managers will try to stretch out the starters who get hit early so they don't burn out the bullpen, yet critics seem to think only Francona does it. Ask yourself this -- how many times have you yelled at the TV or radio wanting him t change pitchers and he doesn't, only to see the pitcher go another few innings effectively.

    Lineups? I get the biggest laugh out of this. Of his critics, half rip him for changing the lineup and not sticking with the same nine, while the other half rip him when he sticks with guys in slumps or not moving players to different spots when they're cold.

    I don't know how many times I've seen him ripped before the game for not playing a guy who is hot, only to see the replacement have a good game and then when you look deeper, you see that the hot player who sat was horrible against the starting pitcher.

    Critics rip him for the lefty-right-lefty-etc batting orders, so that makes him a bad tactical manager.

    I'll repeat what I said at the beginning. It's pretty arrogant to call him a bad tactical manager simply because you'd do something different. Critics come on this board after every loss ripping him as if had Francona done something different, the Sox would have won. How pathetics is that?

    I don't always agree with every move and I'm sure he'd admit there are moves or non-moves he'd like to change. But over the course of a 162-game season, what manager can't that be said for?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PawsoxPhil. Show PawsoxPhil's posts

    Re: Just curious

    It looks like PSchuller has been undressed in public at noon hour in the town square. Good job Roy.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Just curious

    In Response to Re: Just curious:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Just curious : Fair enough, but many get well into their late thirties even and have not grown up enough to manage themselves (e.g one Manny Ramirez). I don't think age is the issue, but I do concede that it would be difficult for a manager to motivate individual players who are not able to motivate themselves. I was thinking more about the (difficult) art of getting a team motivated day after day, but maybe in baseball that would be particularly difficult. 
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]

    Exactly. Baseball is an amazingly long season. You start when the weather's cold, then it gets nice, then it gets hot as hell, than it gets nicer, then it gets cold again.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Just curious

    This thread is an excellent read, one of the better ones regarding Tito.
    I don't think team motivation at the M.L. level is the issue it is at lower levels.

    Some really great posts here.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Just curious

    royf19, I fully admit that I think Tito is a bad tactical manager, and if it helps to clarify that is MY opinion, based on my observations, I am happy to do that. But that certainly does not make me arrogant, just a fan with an opinion (and not alone I might add). And not without plenty of evidence to support that opinion, like last night. Perhaps Tito was the only one at the park or watching on TV who did not notice that Bard didn't have it from the outset. If he did, I consider it very bad tactics to let him walk in the two runs that tied the game before yanking him.

    But that is not really the point. This is a complex world we live in, and it is important, even when talking sports, to distinguish issues when they are not related. Whether or not Tito is a good tactical manager is not related to the issue I raised about consistency of team performance and motivation. So just because I have an opinion on Tito as a tactical manager does not mean that I cannot start a balanced discussion of another unrelated issue (and BTW, having a balanced discussion does not mean that a person cannot take a position on something, it just means that they must rationally consider various perspectives on the subject, so I am more than happy to consider your perspective on why Tito is a good tactical manager.)
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: Just curious

    In Response to Re: Just curious:
    [QUOTE]Here's my 2 Cents on Tito: 1. I don't think another manager could deal with the Boston media circus with better attitude, better wit, or better overall good will. 2. He is as good a player-friendly manager as there is in all of baseball. 3. The players respect him, they did not respect Joe Kerrigan, did not respect Butch Hobson, did not respect Kevin Kennedy (played favorites). I think Jimy and Grady were respected, but one was crazy and the other was very stubborn in his final managerial game with Sox, and played hunches. 4. Theo and Tito are not only on the same page, they are joined at the hip when it comes to most of the decisions made in pitching rotation, lineups, and who to bring up or bring in to help  the team. 5. My one true criticism of Tito is he could argue back that he is making the tough choices to keep the team healthy by playoff time--the white flag lineups--when he sits 2 or 3 regulars during even a team slump because he wants them to get a day's rest. He knows that the lineup is probably doomed to fail but he sends it out anyway, which causes a lot of fans great distress. I don't think the SP is too happy when they have a C- lineup. Sometimes those type of lineups are unavoidable--Ortiz, Youks hurt at same time--but he does this about 7 or 8 times  a year, and some could say that's the difference between him and Joe Girardi. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Superbly said, danny.  Good treatment of situations as well as outlook of both players and managers relationally.

    don't think I could disagree a bit.
     

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