lackey, miller, wake results about the same

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    lackey, miller, wake results about the same




    tonight
    lackey bases loaded in first 2 innings was it
    10 hits, 4 hits with runners in scoring position or 400 ( would love for the sox to just make 300 with risp.
    only caught the 8th and 9th and highlights so far. got in late.

    i dont see how lackey or wake are better than miller.
    miller may walk more but allows less hits (in games he starts).
    i dont think any of them are very much above the other (tho wake has one game in 3 hes great for 6 innings, one game in 3 hes bearable 3-5 runs, one game in 3 he gets destroyed).

    after bedard its a crapshoot.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    You don't look very hard:

    As starters...

    Hits per 9 IP
    Wake    9.2
    Lack   11.4
    Miller 11.4

    ERA:
    Wake:    4.95
    Miller:    5.96    
    Lackey: 6.13

    WHIP:
    Wake: 1.310
    Lack:  1.550 (approx)
    Miller: 1.884

    Wins (Team Record in starts):
    Wake:  11-5
    Lack:    11-9
    Miller:   7-1
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    No, you need to leave the prison library. Its all about team wins, so says the prison board bully.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    Maybe the prison library has a book showing Miller with a better H/9 as a starter, but that doesn't make it true.

    It was softy who brought up wins with Miller's team 7-1 record when he starts. I just argued his own criterea to show his silliness. (The team is 11-5 with Wake.)


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    Team would win more with Miller, as 7-1 % shows.

    Has Wakefield ever thrown a game where he didn't hit a batter or throw a wild pitch or cause a catcher to be a scapegoat for a "passed ball"?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]Team would win more with Miller, as 7-1 % shows. Has Wakefield ever thrown a game where he didn't hit a batter or throw a wild pitch or cause a catcher to be a scapegoat for a "passed ball"?
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]
     
    Yes, actually he has: 14of his 25 appearances: no HBP, no PB, no WP.

    You keep pretending Wake is wild.

    Starters...

     HBPs/GS:
    Lackey  14/20  70%
    Lester   10/22  45%
    Miller        3/8   38%
    Beckett   7/22  32%
    Wake       4/16  25%
    Buch        2/14  14%

     WP/GS
    Wake    10/16  63% (but actually 4 WPs were really PBs, so 38%) 
    Lackey   8/20  40%
    Buch       3/14  21%
    Beckett  4/22  18%
    Miller       1/8    13%
    Lester     1/22    5%

     BB/9 IP (overall)
    Miller    5.8
    Buch    3.4
    Lest     3.3
    Lack     2.6
    Wake   2.5
    Beck    2.4

    (Sidenote: Wake has the best BB/9 rate (2.4) of any Sox starter from mid 2009-2011: softy's timeframe of choice. Once I schooled him on this point, so he no longer bashes Wake on BBs like he used to. Now, he reaches for other stats, that if he bothered to even look at them, actually prove the opposite of his position. Wake has actually been too accurate this year. He has been in the middle of the K-zone too much, hence the higher and terrible HR/9 rate. That is not a sign of wildness, clown.)

    To be fair, Wake must be way ahead in PBs/GS, but I do not know where to find the data. I guess if you want to say a pitcher is bad or "wild" because he pitches a type of ball that is so unhittable that catchers sometimes have trouble even catching it when it is often in the K-zone, it is your right, but reasonable fans know better.


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from stormcrow7878. Show stormcrow7878's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    Wow, I have spent the last hour reading several threads, all of which feature a gentleman who goes by the handle of SoftLaw voicing his extreme dislike of Red Sox RHP Tim Wakefield. This in and of itself is not a bad thing, as he is certainly entitled to his opinion. However, in making his case against Mr. Wakefield, he continually refers to younger pitchers who would be a better option for the Boston 9, none of these youngsters (Miller, Weiland and Dourbant) have been signifigantly better than Wakefield, and by most measuables they have been slightly worse (Dourbant the exception as he is injured if I am not mistaken). Coupling that with the lack of experience these youngsters hav e in the middle of a pennant race would make them replacing Wakefield seem a rash move. Mr. SoftLaw also has referred to "countless" other pitchers who are available, that would be better than Wakefield, however, when challenged by a Mr. Moonslav to name these available pitchers he has failed to do so. One must therefore conclude that Mr. SoftLaw does not know s**t from Shinola in this instance, and is merely trolling to vent his pent up feelings of rage towards some unknown source (although it has been strongly hinted at on these boards that the source of that rage may be an irrational hatred of Native Americans.)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]Wow, I have spent the last hour reading several threads, all of which feature a gentleman who goes by the handle of SoftLaw voicing his extreme dislike of Red Sox RHP Tim Wakefield. This in and of itself is not a bad thing, as he is certainly entitled to his opinion. However, in making his case against Mr. Wakefield, he continually refers to younger pitchers who would be a better option for the Boston 9, none of these youngsters (Miller, Weiland and Dourbant) have been signifigantly better than Wakefield, and by most measuables they have been slightly worse (Dourbant the exception as he is injured if I am not mistaken). Coupling that with the lack of experience these youngsters hav e in the middle of a pennant race would make them replacing Wakefield seem a rash move. Mr. SoftLaw also has referred to "countless" other pitchers who are available, that would be better than Wakefield, however, when challenged by a Mr. Moonslav to name these available pitchers he has failed to do so. One must therefore conclude that Mr. SoftLaw does not know s**t from Shinola in this instance, and is merely trolling to vent his pent up feelings of rage towards some unknown source (although it has been strongly hinted at on these boards that the source of that rage may be an irrational hatred of Native Americans.)
    Posted by stormcrow7878[/QUOTE]

    Yes and now he claims he is Cherokee.

    He criticizes Boston's racism, but when I mentioned how Tommy Harper was my favorite baseball player growing up, and how I respected his standing up to the racism in the Sox organization, he blasted Tommy and me. 

    Hence the name: "silly clown".
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]tonight lackey bases loaded in first 2 innings was it 10 hits, 4 hits with runners in scoring position or 400 ( would love for the sox to just make 300 with risp. only caught the 8th and 9th and highlights so far. got in late. i dont see how lackey or wake are better than miller. miller may walk more but allows less hits (in games he starts). i dont think any of them are very much above the other (tho wake has one game in 3 hes great for 6 innings, one game in 3 hes bearable 3-5 runs, one game in 3 he gets destroyed). after bedard its a crapshoot.
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]

    I know some fans here feel differently but Lackey, Miller and Wake have similarities that probably wouldn't make them good choices to be our 3rd option in the PS.  Miller doesn't have enough experience, Wake hasn't done well in previous PS play and all three tend to give up too many hits and/or runs compared to innings pitched.  Lackey might get the nod by Terry, but Bedard is a better pitcher and choice in my opinion if healthy. 

    I think Eric has the best chance to pitch effectively deeper into a game and has better control, which I would rather see in our third PS starter. 
    I am anxious to see how this plays out if Clay is in fact gone for the season so we can debate this more.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    Well, judging by the fact, he's gone twice 5 innings, I'm not so sure he's the one you can say has the "best chance to pitch effectively deepr into a game." Wakefield's control has been nothing short of outstanding if you consider just how much control he seems to have with balls and strikes. I'd say Wakefield is a good bet to go 7, 6 strong, Bedard is a 5-inning pitcher, and Miller is a lefty relief specialist waiting to happen.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]Well, judging by the fact, he's gone twice 5 innings, I'm not so sure he's the one you can say has the "best chance to pitch effectively deepr into a game." Wakefield's control has been nothing short of outstanding if you consider just how much control he seems to have with balls and strikes. I'd say Wakefield is a good bet to go 7, 6 strong, Bedard is a 5-inning pitcher, and Miller is a lefty relief specialist waiting to happen.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Lackey is healthy, Bedard just came of the DL and has also been restricted in his pitch counts.  I don't mind going out on a limb with my prediction since some of you feel Lackey may better than others.  Lets just wait and see how it plays out before debating it further.

    I didn't brag about my prediction that Tampa would go away like others.  It's not my style and will certainly admit if I'm wrong in the end, unlike others.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    Don't count me in the Lackey is better bunch. I am mystified at how lucky he really is. As for Bedard, when I see him throw 7 strong, I will take him more seriously than a 5 inn guy.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    Expect a huge FA bidding war for great starter performer wakefield and CERA great Jason Varitek.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]Don't count me in the Lackey is better bunch. I am mystified at how lucky he really is. As for Bedard, when I see him throw 7 strong, I will take him more seriously than a 5 inn guy.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough DC, we definitely agree when it comes to Lackey.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    yeah, but craze, he's 6-0 in his last 7 starts....*d'uh winning*...I think Charlie Sheen's poster is on Lackey's locker room door.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    I predict Storage Wars will be this year's Pawn Stars....yawn

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]Expect a huge FA bidding was for great starter performer wakefield and CERA great Jason Varitek.
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    Funny, I wasn't here but heard about that whole CERA thing.  I don't agree much with CERA but do agree Jason is still here because of his game calling skill and mentoring of Salty which has gone pretty well.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    soft, i have a question for you, if the Sox waived Varitek and Wakefield, do you promise to stop posting about them? I actually think you think if the Sox read this board long enough, they will dump both just to get you to stop posting ad nauseum about the two.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]yeah, but craze, he's 6-0 in his last 7 starts....*d'uh winning*...I think Charlie Sheen's poster is on Lackey's locker room door.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    DC, Don't get me going on wins verses situational Stats.  I promised myself I wouldn't upset the Lackey supporters anymore than I have to.  I think we should get Beck and Jon involved and ask them how they feel about win or loss being the sole judge for ones performance.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    craze, we've been going over that in other threads. it's kind of maddening obviously. It took me a very long time to accept that SPs win-loss record almost has nothing to do with effectiveness, and everything to do about planets aligning.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    I still believe, however, that during the CG eras it meant something more. You could determine your own destiny if you pitched the 8th and 9th...So many things can happen to help you win (and lose) such as a late-inning rally, and maybe you can prevent a team from blowing it open against you if they don't have to face a terrible bullpen in your place.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]craze, we've been going over that in other threads. it's kind of maddening obviously. It took me a very long time to accept that SPs win-loss record almost has nothing to do with effectiveness, and everything to do about planets aligning.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Thats why I'm trying my best to stay out of it as much as possible DC.  All I want is a win out of Wake tonight and another trip to the PS.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from softylaw. Show softylaw's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    I actually think you think if the Sox read this board long enough, they will dump both just to get you to stop posting ad nauseum about the two.

    I actually think that you think that if the Sox read this board long enough, they will offer Ellsbury a 143M and Wakefield a 16M and Varitek a 10M contract to get you to stop posting ad nauseum about how great they are.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]I still believe, however, that during the CG eras it meant something more. You could determine your own destiny if you pitched the 8th and 9th...So many things can happen to help you win (and lose) such as a late-inning rally, and maybe you can prevent a team from blowing it open against you if they don't have to face a terrible bullpen in your place.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Not to just single out Lackey DC but most of us realize Lackey could be 8 and 11 or worse if things didn't work out as well after he got pulled from games.  I don't think his record could be any better but could be worse.  In a PS game, I would rather go with the pitcher who can control an offense longer "if possible" while limiting the hits and/or runs.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same

    In Response to Re: lackey, miller, wake results about the same:
    [QUOTE]I actually think you think if the Sox read this board long enough, they will dump both just to get you to stop posting ad nauseum about the two. I actually think that you think that if the Sox read this board long enough, they will offer Ellsbury a 143M and Wakefield a 16M and Varitek a 10M contract to get you to stop posting ad nauseum about how great they are.  
    Posted by softylaw[/QUOTE]

    LMAO, good point.
     

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