Lavarnway "catcher of the future"?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Lavarnway "catcher of the future"?

    Ive never thought that he was the man to take over long term behind the plate. Multiple scouts opinions back up what I believe.

    Now, I know people will say he was tired at the end of the year or whatever. While I can agree that he was, Im not buying it as the main reason for his struggles. he was never a catcher until his second year in college, so its not his natural position.

    Now Im not so sure Salty is a long term option either, so Im not going there.

    The point of this thread is to voice my opinion that I think lavarnways best asset, his bat, should be utilized instead of minimized spending all his time and energy behind the plate where he doesnt look comfortable anyway. It almost looks forced. Hes not smooth and is very slow with his reactions and is a liability.

    My solution? I say give the big 6'4 230LB kid a 1b mit and send him to Pawtucket for a few months. I know he can scoop a ball out of the dirt and was a position player long before he was a catcher. Just get him adjusted to the job of a 1bman, the footwork etc., and let him rake at the plate. Hes got 30Hr potential along with a high OBP and SLG. Why waste that bat taking all his time trying to learn a position hes been struggling at for a few years now?

    There a reason most catchers are not that good offensively. Its because of all the time spent doing everything needed to become a solid game-caller and the amount of energy squatting and standing for 100+ games a year...Id rather have a guy who is great defensively and Ok offensively if I had to choose one or the other. Lav is not good defensively and I dont think he will ever be good enough defensively to be an adequate ft starter.

    We have nobody in the system that can be considered a sure thing since Rizzo was dealt for Gonzo. I know some of you will disagree with me, and thats fine. I stand by what i believe.

    I await your responses. Try and keep it respectful even if you dont agree...

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    I'm not against it. First base is also a resting position, so I'm not sure we should have a "special" first baseman. Did AGon do well there? Yes. But Youk also did an amazing job and he wasn't a first baseman. I think it's worth a shot if he's not going to be our catcher.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not against it. First base is also a resting position, so I'm not sure we should have a "special" first baseman. Did AGon do well there? Yes. But Youk also did an amazing job and he wasn't a first baseman. I think it's worth a shot if he's not going to be our catcher.

    [/QUOTE]


    What do you think about lavarnways catching skills Kim? Do you think he has what it takes to be a ft starter?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ive never thought that he was the man to take over long term behind the plate. Multiple scouts opinions back up what I believe.

    Now, I know people will say he was tired at the end of the year or whatever. While I can agree that he was, Im not buying it as the main reason for his struggles. he was never a catcher until his second year in college, so its not his natural position.

    Now Im not so sure Salty is a long term option either, so Im not going there.

    The point of this thread is to voice my opinion that I think lavarnways best asset, his bat, should be utilized instead of minimized spending all his time and energy behind the plate where he doesnt look comfortable anyway. It almost looks forced. Hes not smooth and is very slow with his reactions and is a liability.

    My solution? I say give the big 6'4 230LB kid a 1b mit and send him to Pawtucket for a few months. I know he can scoop a ball out of the dirt and was a position player long before he was a catcher. Just get him adjusted to the job of a 1bman, the footwork etc., and let him rake at the plate. Hes got 30Hr potential along with a high OBP and SLG. Why waste that bat taking all his time trying to learn a position hes been struggling at for a few years now?

    There a reason most catchers are not that good offensively. Its because of all the time spent doing everything needed to become a solid game-caller and the amount of energy squatting and standing for 100+ games a year...Id rather have a guy who is great defensively and Ok offensively if I had to choose one or the other. Lav is not good defensively and I dont think he will ever be good enough defensively to be an adequate ft starter.

    We have nobody in the system that can be considered a sure thing since Rizzo was dealt for Gonzo. I know some of you will disagree with me, and thats fine. I stand by what i believe.

    I await your responses. Try and keep it respectful even if you dont agree...

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Good read and interesting take.  If the Red Sox follow suit and this idea comes to fruition, this mock sheriff will pin a mock medal on you.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not against it. First base is also a resting position, so I'm not sure we should have a "special" first baseman. Did AGon do well there? Yes. But Youk also did an amazing job and he wasn't a first baseman. I think it's worth a shot if he's not going to be our catcher.

    [/QUOTE]


    What do you think about lavarnways catching skills Kim? Do you think he has what it takes to be a ft starter?

    [/QUOTE]


    Well, I know he's not up-to-speed, but I always thought it was just a matter of time. I thought maybe he just needed more playing time in the ML. And then Moon told me that it was going to be a while because it wasn't his natural position.

    I still think he can contribute, and your idea seemed like it could be a possible solution. He's capable of smacking the ball around. Why not use him at another position?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    Someone raised the idea of moving Boegarts to 1B now.  Madness, IMO.  He's far too good an athlete to relegate to 1B at age 20.

    Same thing with Lav.....if he has a value of 10 as a catcher, his value as at 1B is 6.  What you want is a Bench at C, a Morgan at 2B, a Mays in CF....don't relegate young players to 1B/DH until you exhaust their potential at skill positions.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    He's better than Salty and has the potential to be a fine receiver. I'm not buying that catchers don't hit well because of the physical demands of the position. If anything, catchers ought to hit better than other postion players for the simple fact of being able to recognized pitches better. Running affects them more than hitting.

    The problem is that most work on their defense rather than their offense.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He's better than Salty and has the potential to be a fine receiver. I'm not buying that catchers don't hit well because of the physical demands of the position. If anything, catchers ought to hit better than other postion players for the simple fact of being able to recognized pitches better. Running affects them more than hitting.

    The problem is that most work on their defense rather than their offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Lavarnway may be better than Salty as a defensive catcher, but he is no better than Salty as a hitter.  That is the problem for Lavarnway.  Boston already have too many good defenders  such as Iggy, Lavarnway, etc who cant hit yet at the major league level.   Ross is coming to Boston to spend time working with either Salty as a defensive catcher or with Lavarnway as an all around catcher.  

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Someone raised the idea of moving Boegarts to 1B now.  Madness, IMO.  He's far too good an athlete to relegate to 1B at age 20.

    Same thing with Lav.....if he has a value of 10 as a catcher, his value as at 1B is 6.  What you want is a Bench at C, a Morgan at 2B, a Mays in CF....don't relegate young players to 1B/DH until you exhaust their potential at skill positions.

    [/QUOTE]


    Well, if what the scouts say is true, then his value as a catcher might not be that high. If his lack of athleticism behind the plate doesnt improve, he becomes a liability and that cant rate too high I would imagine.

    They said the same thing about Montero, all bat no glove behind the plate. I just dont want this kid to waste another couple of years only to find out what most scouts see, is in fact true.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He's better than Salty and has the potential to be a fine receiver. I'm not buying that catchers don't hit well because of the physical demands of the position. If anything, catchers ought to hit better than other postion players for the simple fact of being able to recognized pitches better. Running affects them more than hitting.

    The problem is that most work on their defense rather than their offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    When I said "There a reason most catchers are not that good offensively. Its because of all the time spent doing everything needed to become a solid game-caller", thats pretty much what I meant...

    His more offensive, at least in ML baseball he was. It was his string point and now it will probably suffer some.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He's better than Salty and has the potential to be a fine receiver. I'm not buying that catchers don't hit well because of the physical demands of the position. If anything, catchers ought to hit better than other postion players for the simple fact of being able to recognized pitches better. Running affects them more than hitting.

    The problem is that most work on their defense rather than their offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Lavarnway may be better than Salty as a defensive catcher, but he is no better than Salty as a hitter.  That is the problem for Lavarnway.  Boston already have too many good defenders  such as Iggy, Lavarnway, etc who cant hit yet at the major league level.   Ross is coming to Boston to spend time working with either Salty as a defensive catcher or with Lavarnway as an all around catcher.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Lavarnway has had great offensive numbers in the minors. I dont think his MLB sample size is big enough to say hes only as good, or going to be as good as Salty. That and hes been working heavily on his defense and everything that goes into being a MLB catcher, which has taken away from his offense.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to SindarinEribor's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I tend to believe what the scouts have to say about his lack of atheticism and quickness behind the plate and that those attributes cannot be learned. I'm hoping that the Sox will platoon Salty with Ross this year and send Lavarnway down to the Pawsox where he can improve his skills offensively and learn how to play first base. It will also improve his value in a trade.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, this is kinda what I was hoping too. I think the Sox have other things in mind though.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    Wasn't Lavarnaway defensive catcher of the year in the IL this year? It seems like he's really improved as a catcher since he's been focussed on it. His bat will come around IMO, as he's always hit. That being said, I'm not sure he's the catcher of the future so much as the catcher of the next two or three years since Swihart looks like a real talent at the position. It will be very interesting to see what Ben does at the C position this winter.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to carnie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Wasn't Lavarnaway defensive catcher of the year in the IL this year? It seems like he's really improved as a catcher since he's been focussed on it. His bat will come around IMO, as he's always hit. That being said, I'm not sure he's the catcher of the future so much as the catcher of the next two or three years since Swihart looks like a real talent at the position. It will be very interesting to see what Ben does at the C position this winter.

    [/QUOTE]


    Getting defensive catcher of the year in AAA has about as much merit as the GG in MLB.

    Now thats not to say he hasnt improved, but it was pretty painful to watch him behind the plate. There were a number of balls he should have blocked that got by him and he looked very uncoordinated back there trying to block them.

    Maybe in a couple years he will improve enough, but by then one of our other guys will be close to ready. I just hope they dont waste too much time making their decision what to do with him.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He's better than Salty and has the potential to be a fine receiver. I'm not buying that catchers don't hit well because of the physical demands of the position. If anything, catchers ought to hit better than other postion players for the simple fact of being able to recognized pitches better. Running affects them more than hitting.

    The problem is that most work on their defense rather than their offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Lavarnway may be better than Salty as a defensive catcher, but he is no better than Salty as a hitter.  That is the problem for Lavarnway.  Boston already have too many good defenders  such as Iggy, Lavarnway, etc who cant hit yet at the major league level.   Ross is coming to Boston to spend time working with either Salty as a defensive catcher or with Lavarnway as an all around catcher.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Lav has a big hole in his swing and it's because he holds the bat too far back in the palms of his hands. If he would grip the bat more in his fingers, he's have much better bat control and be able to expand his hitting zone.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He's better than Salty and has the potential to be a fine receiver. I'm not buying that catchers don't hit well because of the physical demands of the position. If anything, catchers ought to hit better than other postion players for the simple fact of being able to recognized pitches better. Running affects them more than hitting.

    The problem is that most work on their defense rather than their offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Lavarnway may be better than Salty as a defensive catcher, but he is no better than Salty as a hitter.  That is the problem for Lavarnway.  Boston already have too many good defenders  such as Iggy, Lavarnway, etc who cant hit yet at the major league level.   Ross is coming to Boston to spend time working with either Salty as a defensive catcher or with Lavarnway as an all around catcher.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Lav has a big hole in his swing and it's because he holds the bat too far back in the palms of his hands. If he would grip the bat more in his fingers, he's have much better bat control and be able to expand his hitting zone.

    [/QUOTE]


    maybe BC should have hired you to be the hitting coach then. if your seeing something nobodu else does..

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    Ryan  Lavarnway reminds me a bit of former Blue Jay catcher/DH/firstbaseman Josh Phelps, who was Baseball America's 36th-ranked prospect as a 23-year-old before the 2002 season:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=phelps001jos

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/phelpjo01.shtml

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    Have been a lot of catchers who did not start there career behind the plate [Jorge Posada]. Less wear and tear than a guy who has been doing it since middle school. Lavarnway may never be Yadier Molina behind the plate, but he's worked hard enough at the craft to be voted top defensive catcher in the EL League last year. No reason to believe he won't continue to improve. If he hits well enough people will overlook some shortcomings defensively. Posada was never known for his defense, but was good enough to win some WS titles w/ him behind the plate. To ask Lavarnway to go learn another position just going to delay his arrival even longer, he's close to being mlb ready now.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He's better than Salty and has the potential to be a fine receiver. I'm not buying that catchers don't hit well because of the physical demands of the position. If anything, catchers ought to hit better than other postion players for the simple fact of being able to recognized pitches better. Running affects them more than hitting.

    The problem is that most work on their defense rather than their offense.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ike, my man....you're veering into Softlaw territory with the comment above.  Unless you are willing to claim that you are absolutely right and every present and former catcher, coach and manager is absolutely wrong about the physical demands of catching you have to retract that statement.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Someone raised the idea of moving Boegarts to 1B now.  Madness, IMO.  He's far too good an athlete to relegate to 1B at age 20.

    Same thing with Lav.....if he has a value of 10 as a catcher, his value as at 1B is 6.  What you want is a Bench at C, a Morgan at 2B, a Mays in CF....don't relegate young players to 1B/DH until you exhaust their potential at skill positions.

    [/QUOTE]


    Well, if what the scouts say is true, then his value as a catcher might not be that high. If his lack of athleticism behind the plate doesnt improve, he becomes a liability and that cant rate too high I would imagine.

    They said the same thing about Montero, all bat no glove behind the plate. I just dont want this kid to waste another couple of years only to find out what most scouts see, is in fact true.

    [/QUOTE]

    Paw - I meant those numbers to be relative rather than absolute i.e. the guy is clearly not a 10 (Bench, Campanella) as a catcher...but that a great catcher's bat (e.g. Mauer) is usually a mediocre bat at first.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seabeachfred. Show seabeachfred's posts

    Re: Lavarnway

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Alibiike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    He's better than Salty and has the potential to be a fine receiver. I'm not buying that catchers don't hit well because of the physical demands of the position. If anything, catchers ought to hit better than other postion players for the simple fact of being able to recognized pitches better. Running affects them more than hitting.

    The problem is that most work on their defense rather than their offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Lavarnway may be better than Salty as a defensive catcher, but he is no better than Salty as a hitter.  That is the problem for Lavarnway.  Boston already have too many good defenders  such as Iggy, Lavarnway, etc who cant hit yet at the major league level.   Ross is coming to Boston to spend time working with either Salty as a defensive catcher or with Lavarnway as an all around catcher.  

    [/QUOTE]


    Lav has a big hole in his swing and it's because he holds the bat too far back in the palms of his hands. If he would grip the bat more in his fingers, he's have much better bat control and be able to expand his hitting zone.

    [/QUOTE]


    maybe BC should have hired you to be the hitting coach then. if your seeing something nobodu else does..

    [/QUOTE]


    Mef--I coached baseball teams for 30 seasons and usually had very good hitting teams.  Ike happen to be right.  The more you place the bat in the fingers the quicker your swing will be and more level as well.

     

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

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