Looks like Kemp is our if

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to hill55's comment:

    If the Dodgers trade Matt Kemp, the 29-year-old outfielder will go to the most desperate team that as a result makes the best offer.

    I doubt the Red Sox are that team.

     



    Desperate would be defined by the Sox offering Jacoby 153mil.  If the Dodgers are willing to pay a good chunk Kemp is a much more attractive deal period.  Kemp would only be 34 and Papi will no longer be in the picture so that could also be a plus.  If JBJ plays CF next season it would be work in progress and hurt us defensively.  If he plays a corner position he still isn't ready to fill Jacoby's lost offense.

    I think the Sox may take the cheap way out again but we wouldn't have the same success without further upgrades.  You can't two rookies like Bogy and JBJ and expect much and I doubt Middy helps at 1B or 3B.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm not Ben C.,but I don't trade Owens,Bogaerts, Cecchini, Marrero after those guys are off the table give them Middlebrooks and Webster or any other pitcher for that fact. As for Kemp he's OK but he's as fragile as Ellsbury, you might want Ethier as he at least has a connection with the Sox. Either way it's an upgrade. However if you take on Kemp or Ethier JBJ is done, So my choice would be Rajai Davis for 2 years, or Denard Span for however long his contract runs.

    [/QUOTE]

    The Nationals are not likely to move Span.  There was some early speculation that they would so they could make a run at Ellsbury.   That ship has sailed. 

     

    They did trade their best pitching prospect for him only one year ago...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    How can JBJ playing CF hurts us defensively?  He reads better and owns much stronger arm than Ellsbury.  Have you ever seen him play CF?  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'll take JBJ in CF please. 

    [/QUOTE]

    You may just get him there but we would all probably regret it both offensively and defensively.  JBJ just hasn't looked all that great. 

    Victorino would be a better CF choice!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah remember when everyone wanted to start JBj last year because of a few hot weeks in spring training! I was one of the sane voices calling for a kid with less than half a season above single A to get some more seasoning.  

    Then everyone went sour on him because he got challenged at the MLB leve, but he had a good season and made a lot of adjustments down in Pawtucket.

    Defensively he is more than ready, has made strides at the plate....and is a top 30 prosepct and our #2 for a very good reason.  I suspect he will continue to make strides at the plate this year as well.

    He's not going to be as bad as he was last year, hes still young and moving up the learning curve.

    When you have that type of talent in your system, you bet on it and spend the money were you have a hole with ZERO depth....like first base or Catcher.

    Have we learned nothing over the last few years?  The mega 20 million + contracts with aging stars end up hurting teams more than they help.

    I'll take JBJ......and I think he is going to be a lot better than people in here give him credit for...because just like last year when they all wanted him to start, they are judging him yet again from a small sample size. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to sportsbozo1's comment:

     

    I'm not Ben C.,but I don't trade Owens,Bogaerts, Cecchini, Marrero after those guys are off the table give them Middlebrooks and Webster or any other pitcher for that fact. As for Kemp he's OK but he's as fragile as Ellsbury, you might want Ethier as he at least has a connection with the Sox. Either way it's an upgrade. However if you take on Kemp or Ethier JBJ is done, So my choice would be Rajai Davis for 2 years, or Denard Span for however long his contract runs.

     



    Someone with a little more pop would also help out.  Between Gomes, JBJ, Nava, Carp and Victorino we would only have one above average defender and very little power.  My choices would be this ....

     

    #1 Ryan Braun (Yup) but it will never happen

    #2 Choo, but the Ellbury deal and Boras will ruin any chance of him getting paid reasonable money.

    #3 Kemp, especially if the Dodgers pay a good chunk and we don't lose certain players in return

    #4 Ethier, but he struggles badly from one side of the plate

    #5 Granderson, very unpredictable OBP and BA throught his career, struggles from one side of the plate but has a world of power.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to hill55's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    If the Dodgers trade Matt Kemp, the 29-year-old outfielder will go to the most desperate team that as a result makes the best offer.

    I doubt the Red Sox are that team.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Desperate would be defined by the Sox offering Jacoby 153mil. If the Dodgers are willing to pay a good chunk Kemp is a much more attractive deal period.  Kemp would only be 34 and Papi will no longer be in the picture so that could also be a plus.  If JBJ plays CF next season it would be work in progress and hurt us defensively.  If he plays a corner position he still isn't ready to fill Jacoby's lost offense.

     

    I think the Sox may take the cheap way out again but we wouldn't have the same success without further upgrades.  You can't two rookies like Bogy and JBJ and expect much and I doubt Middy helps at 1B or 3B.

    [/QUOTE]

    and 128 @ 6 years for Kemp isn't desperate? but 7/153 is? and has seen his playing time diminish the last two years?  I'd be more worried about his health than Ellsbury's.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'll take JBJ in CF please. 



    You may just get him there but we would all probably regret it both offensively and defensively.  JBJ just hasn't looked all that great. 

    Victorino would be a better CF choice!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah remember when everyone wanted to start JBj last year because of a few hot weeks in spring training! I was one of the sane voices calling for a kid with less than half a season above single A to get some more seasoning.  

    Then everyone went sour on him because he got challenged at the MLB leve, but he had a good season and made a lot of adjustments down in Pawtucket.

    Defensively he is more than ready, has made strides at the plate....and is a top 30 prosepct and our #2 for a very good reason.  I suspect he will continue to make strides at the plate this year as well.

    He's not going to be as bad as he was last year, hes still young and moving up the learning curve.

    When you have that type of talent in your system, you bet on it and spend the money were you have a hole with ZERO depth....like first base or Catcher.

    Have we learned nothing over the last few years?  The mega 20 million + contracts with aging stars end up hurting teams more than they help.

    I'll take JBJ......and I think he is going to be a lot better than people in here give him credit for...because just like last year when they all wanted him to start, they are judging him yet again from a small sample size. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I never said he won't be good, just not as our starting CF just yet or expecting him to help our offense as much as Jacoby.  Those two issues would set our team back without further unpgrades at another position, especially if we also start Bogy at 3B with Middy again.  These kids will need a good year or two to really help our cause.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'll take JBJ in CF please. 

    [/QUOTE]

    You may just get him there but we would all probably regret it both offensively and defensively.  JBJ just hasn't looked all that great. 

    Victorino would be a better CF choice!

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah remember when everyone wanted to start JBj last year because of a few hot weeks in spring training! I was one of the sane voices calling for a kid with less than half a season above single A to get some more seasoning.  

    Then everyone went sour on him because he got challenged at the MLB leve, but he had a good season and made a lot of adjustments down in Pawtucket.

    Defensively he is more than ready, has made strides at the plate....and is a top 30 prosepct and our #2 for a very good reason.  I suspect he will continue to make strides at the plate this year as well.

    He's not going to be as bad as he was last year, hes still young and moving up the learning curve.

    When you have that type of talent in your system, you bet on it and spend the money were you have a hole with ZERO depth....like first base or Catcher.

    Have we learned nothing over the last few years?  The mega 20 million + contracts with aging stars end up hurting teams more than they help.

    I'll take JBJ......and I think he is going to be a lot better than people in here give him credit for...because just like last year when they all wanted him to start, they are judging him yet again from a small sample size. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I never said he won't be good, just not as our starting CF just yet or expecting him to help our offense as much as Jacoby.  Those two issues would set our team back without further unpgrades at another position.

    [/QUOTE]

    so you want to go out and trade away prospects for a 21 million a year CF for SIX!!! years who has had more injury problems in recent years than Jacoby Ellsbury??? Like I said, you spend to plug up holes....not block top prospects. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    And Xander Bogaerts was already helping our cause in the WORLD SERIES last year.....I think he will be fine. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to seannybboi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    How can JBJ playing CF hurts us defensively?  He reads better and owns much stronger arm than Ellsbury.  Have you ever seen him play CF?  

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes and he has looked great on some plays and horrible on others.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    And Xander Bogaerts was already helping our cause in the WORLD SERIES last year.....I think he will be fine. 

     



    I'm all for giving rookies a shot but I just don't see how starting two of them at once helps our club.  Bogy looked good at 3B and has a decent eye at the plate I have yet to see Bradley look good at the big league level enough to hand over CF (no less) to him.

     

    If we were to start both I would rather see the Sox sign Ethier, Kemp, Choo or another in one of the corner slots, Victorino in CF and let Nava and JBJ man the other.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    And Xander Bogaerts was already helping our cause in the WORLD SERIES last year.....I think he will be fine. 

     



    I'm all for giving rookies a shot but I just don't see how starting two of them at once helps our club.  Bogy looked good at 3B and has a decent eye at the plate I have yet to see Bradley look good at the big league level enough to hand over CF (no less) to him.

     

    If we were to start both I would rather see the Sox sign Ethier, Kemp, Choo or another in one of the corner slots, Victorino in CF and let Nava and JBJ man the other.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I have zero problem starting two rookies....especially when one of them in Xander Bogaerts

    The top rookies in baseball every year provide sufficient value.  I'm not saying Xander will be ROY (although he's a good bet for it) but he will be one of those valuable players.  JBJ is already there defensively.

    If you pay a guy like Kemp not only do you lose prospects but what do you do when gets hurt again or he drops off in a few years? Thats a big problem....but when it happens to a guy making the league minimum it's a lot easier to mitigate. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:

     

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    And Xander Bogaerts was already helping our cause in the WORLD SERIES last year.....I think he will be fine. 

     



    I'm all for giving rookies a shot but I just don't see how starting two of them at once helps our club.  Bogy looked good at 3B and has a decent eye at the plate I have yet to see Bradley look good at the big league level enough to hand over CF (no less) to him.

     

    If we were to start both I would rather see the Sox sign Ethier, Kemp, Choo or another in one of the corner slots, Victorino in CF and let Nava and JBJ man the other.

     

     



    I have zero problem starting two rookies....especially when one of them in Xander Bogaerts

     

    The top rookies in baseball every year provide sufficient value.  I'm not saying Xander will be ROY (although he's a good bet for it) but he will be one of those valuable players.  JBJ is already there defensively.

    If you pay a guy like Kemp not only do you lose prospects but what do you do when gets hurt again or he drops off in a few years? Thats a big problem....but when it happens to a guy making the league minimum it's a lot easier to mitigate. 

     



    I can definately see the Sox going that rout Hugh and who knows maybe it would work but I don't see it. Nava/Gomes in LF, with Bradley and Victorino would be a huge risk, especially as often as Victorino gets hurt. Too many platoon type guys with only one (often injured) every day starter to count on.  We depend on Papi's offense every year as it is which is a huge problem moving forward at his age. 

    At some point we need a real impact every day bat.  Our farm system (as strong as it is) just doesn't have this type of guy.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from HailToTheKing. Show HailToTheKing's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:

     

    And Xander Bogaerts was already helping our cause in the WORLD SERIES last year.....I think he will be fine. 

     



    I'm all for giving rookies a shot but I just don't see how starting two of them at once helps our club.  Bogy looked good at 3B and has a decent eye at the plate I have yet to see Bradley look good at the big league level enough to hand over CF (no less) to him.

     

    If we were to start both I would rather see the Sox sign Ethier, Kemp, Choo or another in one of the corner slots, Victorino in CF and let Nava and JBJ man the other.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I have zero problem starting two rookies....especially when one of them in Xander Bogaerts

     

    The top rookies in baseball every year provide sufficient value.  I'm not saying Xander will be ROY (although he's a good bet for it) but he will be one of those valuable players.  JBJ is already there defensively.

    If you pay a guy like Kemp not only do you lose prospects but what do you do when gets hurt again or he drops off in a few years? Thats a big problem....but when it happens to a guy making the league minimum it's a lot easier to mitigate. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I can definately see the Sox going that rout Hugh and who knows maybe it would work but I don't see it.  Nava/Gomes in LF, with Bradley and Victorino would be a huge risk, especially as often as Victorino gets hurt. Too many platoon type guys and no solid every day starters to count on.  We depend on Papi's offense every year as it is which is a huge problem moving forward at his age

    At some point we need a real impact bat!

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly and well said.  I like the minor league players as much as the other guy.....but I think people get WAY too hung up on these guys.  Look at the top Sox prospects for the last 6 years.....then look at which ones have made any kind of impact in the majors.  Heck...look at the top prospects in ALL of baseball the last few years and count which ones in the top 100 made an impact.  The number is a lot smaller than you think.  AS far as I'm concerned, anybody not named Xander or Owens is on the table for a trade if it improves the club.

    If you want to see a Pawsox game....then go watch the Pawsox.  I'm a fan of the Sox....a team with a HUGE payroll and with a ton of revenue.  We won the world series last year because of mostly veteran play and the influx of a few young players.  If we can get an impact player, to help anchor our lineup for several years and protect our biggest (aging) player in Papi....then you do it. Losing Cecchini or Renauldo will not cripple the Boston Red Sox for years to come people.......HISTORY tells us that. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    every year we complain about not having another impact bat and every year we score the most runs, or we come close to it.  Yes Papi cant live forever, but id rather be the team with young up and coming cheap talent than the team that overpays....have we learned nothing from the NY debacle?  Im all for the occasional big contract bat.  But it is a more rationale and strategic decision to plug up an area of weakness.  

     

    Id be more on board with Kemp if he was consistently healthy.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to seannybboi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    How can JBJ playing CF hurts us defensively?  He reads better and owns much stronger arm than Ellsbury.  Have you ever seen him play CF?  

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    we also have a much stronger system than weve had over the past 7 years

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from HailToTheKing. Show HailToTheKing's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we also have a much stronger system than weve had over the past 7 years

    [/QUOTE]


    A system is only strong when you see proof of it.  We have seen Xander and Workman do some excellent things.....but if they REALLY ARE strong has yet to be determined at the MLB level.  Morales was a can't miss.....Anderson a cant miss....Moss and Murphy....can't miss.....Any Marte....can't miss.....Rose....can't miss.  Well...they missed and they were all top 50 prospects in all of MLB.  Sure, some have made it....but more have not.  To cling onto a top 10 Sox prospect and nt possibly trading him for a solid proven MLB player if you have the chance bites you more often than not.  Yes the deal has to be the right one....but clinging onto unproven commodities is not the answer...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from HailToTheKing. Show HailToTheKing's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    Again....I hold onto Xander and Owens....after that...for the right deal....DO IT!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we also have a much stronger system than weve had over the past 7 years

    [/QUOTE]

    We do but no power bats or strong OF options other than JBJ.  Brentz is probably closest to getting time in the bigs but he also struggles from one side of the plate.  Our farm is very strong but it's basically stocked with IF and Pitching prospects. 

    This is why a lot of fans would like to trade for Stanton.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    all this talk about the prospects yet you call Owens untouchable?  

    First of all most scouts are placing a back of the rotation to a middle starter, and Owens is behind Bradley on almost every list.  But i guess you know something no one else does?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to HailToTheKing's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Again....I hold onto Xander and Owens....after that...for the right deal....DO IT!!

    [/QUOTE]

    They might not want prospects. They'd probably want something like Middlebrooks, Peavy (or Buch) and Tazawa.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to HailToTheKing's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Again....I hold onto Xander and Owens....after that...for the right deal....DO IT!!



    They might not want prospects. They'd probably want something like Middlebrooks, Peavy (or Buch) and Tazawa.

    [/QUOTE]

    moon,

    The Sox definately have a ton of good looking pitching prospects and we could easiliy move a couple in a big trade but I agree, the Dodgers would probably want a major league ready SP. 

    I'm thinking possibly Doubront who is younger and could give them more than a year of service.  I could also see names like Tazawa, Workman, Britton, Middy, Garin C, Lav, Swihart or Vasquez being thrown out there.  SP, C, RP, 2B and possibly 3B could all use upgrades in LA at some point. 

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    Look , Kemp is risk/reward just like any player.  His risk is very high salary for an injury filled recent past.  That diminishes his value.  Not many teams can take on his huge salary, even if the dodgers pick up a percentage.  His value is a very high talent ceiling.  A tough balancing act. 

     

    Now, Kemp seems like a better option then CC or Either at this point.  The dodgers almost HAVE TO trade one of them.  Puig is going no Where.  So acquiring Kemp is a matter of balancing talent given up to salary taken on.  Give them alot of talent, and take back much less salary.  Real life examples...give them dempster and middy...and thats it, and eat most of his salary<$20m eaten by dodgers versus giving up Lackey, Middy and a prospect or two and have the dodgers eat >$50m.  Personally, I am ok with trading Lackey.  I am also ok with getting Kemp.  The secondary players are a different matter.  I am higher on Middy then most.  Lav and JBJ are more available to me...and we have several almost ready pitchers...Keep ceccini though...and your top 3-4 prospects.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Looks like Kemp is our if

    In response to craze4sox's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we also have a much stronger system than weve had over the past 7 years

    [/QUOTE]

    We do but no power bats or strong OF options other than JBJ.  Brentz is probably closest to getting time in the bigs but he also struggles from one side of the plate.  Our farm is very strong but it's basically stocked with IF and Pitching prospects. 

    This is why a lot of fans would like to trade for Stanton.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    logically Stanton would make more sense, we need corner outfielders.  That is a systems weakness.  but JBJ should be able to play center,  his GG caliber defense is ready now.  

    There's few Power bats because power itself is largely down in baseball.  I wouldn't worry about it too much, I'd be more concerned with developing pitching.  It's easier to find a bat on the market. 

    We always complain about not having young superstars on this team, and then we all advocate for trading away prospects....then we complain about overpaying for guys....then we want to trade all our prospects again for an overpaid player reaching his 30's who may be physically breaking down.

    It's a viscous cycle that is doomed to repeat itself because fans can't fathom the idea of letting a guy finish his development in the bigs. 

    Teams who build like St. Louis are going to be 10X more successful in the new era of baseball than teams like the Yankees....and they did pretty darn good with a bunch of rookies.

    I'd rather model them, than model the panicky yankee model of having to have overpriced superstars.  

    It's not just about next year.....it's about EVERY year. 

     

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