Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Most Red Sox fans ...

    The antithesis of non-producing good ole boys like Wastefield and Varitek, Ortiz has embarrassed posters who claimed he could no longer hit LP well enough to warrant a roster spot, or since on the roster, needed to sit v most LP and bat lower in the order.

    This winter, most Red Sox fans wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", and called Ortiz washed up back in 2009 and 2010. Despite finishing up with elite league DH production years for 2009, 2010 and 2011, the pride, prejudice and bigotry has always been forefront among the substantial majority of Red Sox fans and the media. 

    The fact is that Ortiz takes a popularity back seat to good ole boys like Varitek and Wastefield, and the soon to be departing for a FA contract and usually on the shelf, Ellsbury.

    Ortiz is owed an apology from most Red Sox fans. He remains the face of the franchise. Along with another despised former Red Sox pitcher, Curt Schilling, these two core players did more for the Red Sox brand than any other player in the last two decades. On a team whose fan base is made up of hypocritcal leftist elite and Big Labor & Bureaucrat fans who live segrated intimate lives while pandering rhetoric and something from others for nothing for ethnic minority votes, it comes as no surprise to see Ortiz receive the bigoted reception in Boston. 

    That Ortiz's request for a 2 year contract at around 25 million was turned down is consistent with the way middle management has treated him. He has made the brand more money than the franchise will ever pay to him! 

    Fortunately, John Henry has remained loyal to Ortiz, as, otherwise, prior and current middle management most certainly would have "spent all or some of the money elsewhere". 

    Ortiz has stated that he will retire after playing 2 more years. Needless to say, he won't be hanging around off of good will, like a parasite, long after he is no longer productive enough to warrant an active roster spot. The Red Sox need to show some class and offer Ortiz a one year extension with a year 2 team option and substantial buyout and player opt out provisions that insure that Ortiz is treated well and allowed to retire with the Red Sox at the end of 2014, or play one final season off a one year FA contract for any AL team he chooses.

    David Ortiz, this poster never waivered in his support for you and the importance you bring to the Red Sox, and this poster salutes you for surviving the lack of appreciation and the uncalled for abuse during the slow starts of 2009 and 2010.  

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    In Response to Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP:
    [QUOTE] it comes as no surprise to see Ortiz receive the bigoted reception in Boston.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]
     
    Thanks Hank, this is the reason why I don't have you on ignore.  The comedy is just priceless sometimes.  You do know what reception means don't you?  It would be about how he was initially treated in Boston, which would be like a deity.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roadrunner9234. Show Roadrunner9234's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    To say you didn't wonder, at all, at any point whether Ortiz was done is like saying you really believed the Sox were going to win the WS after going down 0-3 in the 04 ALCS.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    Let's see.  Where do the Sox need the most help and where are they deep?  They need help in the BP and are deep in offense.  That would suggest that they spend money on BP - not offense.

    In any rate, nice to see Big Papi looking so svelt.  He looks strong and he seems to have regained his quickness.  I wonder what supplements he took that helped get into such good shape.  More importantly, why didn't he do it sooner.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    You are misrepresenting what happened.  There was clearly some risk in rehiring Ortiz for what amounts to absolute top dollar for a DH.  Like many others, I thought this was a prudent risk because he had a good year in 2011 and is the best DH around.  But I also thought two years at his age, now 36, was too much risk.  I did not think keeping Ortiz was a simple decision, especially not for the money involved.  But right now it looks like a great investment.  Who knew he would get so good at hitting the other way?  SS's all around the AL are not having to play on the right side of 2B. 

    As for Tek and Wake, both were on a year to year basis, with the Sox having all the options.  Oh, and neither was paid very much. 

    While I was fine with both not being renewed this year, I do occasionally wonder about the skills of our current two, Saltalamacchia and Shoppach, behind the plate.  Their hitting at this juncture has been pretty good.  But the ERA is the worst in MLB by a good margin.  I wouldn't bring Tek back, but do think the pitch-calling ability has gotten worse. If you doubt me, just watch the number of times every pitcher this year shakes his head to indicate he wants to throw a different pitch from whatever the catcher signalled.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    In Response to Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP:
    [QUOTE]You are misrepresenting what happened.  There was clearly some risk in rehiring Ortiz for what amounts to absolute top dollar for a DH.  Like many others, I thought this was a prudent risk because he had a good year in 2011 and is the best DH around.  But I also thought two years at his age, now 36, was too much risk.  I did not think keeping Ortiz was a simple decision, especially not for the money involved.  But right now it looks like a great investment.  Who knew he would get so good at hitting the other way?  SS's all around the AL are not having to play on the right side of 2B.  As for Tek and Wake, both were on a year to year basis, with the Sox having all the options.  Oh, and neither was paid very much.  While I was fine with both not being renewed this year, I do occasionally wonder about the skills of our current two, Saltalamacchia and Shoppach, behind the plate.  Their hitting at this juncture has been pretty good.  But the ERA is the worst in MLB by a good margin.  I wouldn't bring Tek back, but do think the pitch-calling ability has gotten worse. If you doubt me, just watch the number of times every pitcher this year shakes his head to indicate he wants to throw a different pitch from whatever the catcher signalled.
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Good point.  The DH aspect was especially relevant on this team with Adrian and Youkilis and a few new guys trying to make the team.  I love how well Papi is doing, but the added flexibility of not having a dh only player on the roster would be beneficial as well.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    More importantly, why didn't he do it sooner.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    You do know what reception means don't you?

    RECEPTION
    . 1: the act or action or an instance of receiving

    Obviously, you don't.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    Yep Ortiz is playing well.

    Why are you so angry about it?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    You are misrepresenting what happened.  There was clearly some risk in rehiring Ortiz for what amounts to absolute top dollar for a DH

    In fact, it is you who is misrepresenting what happened. Ortiz isn't paid "top dollar" based on his plate production. See Carl Crawford and "on the shelf Ells".

    As for risk, see dumping nearly 4 million a year on a non-producing Tim Wastefield, "year to year". Ditto Varitek. Both good ole boys weren't a risk to "rehire", they had failed to produce for years after being "rehired" more than once after failing to produce.  
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    In Response to Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP:
    [QUOTE]You do know what reception means don't you? RECEPTION . 1: the act or action or an instance of receiving Obviously, you don't.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    Wow, you are slower than I thought.  Reception refers to when he initially got here.
    I repeat, priceless comedy.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    Good grief, nobody owes David Ortiz an apology. Some Red Sox fans were concerned about re-signing a 36-year-old designated hitter. Though I though we needed him back and said so, I understood where they were coming from.  (I didn't take a poll, but I'm fairly certain if I had it would have been at least 60-40 re-sign him).

    Meanwhile, some on this board were calling for the immediate departure of our center fielder, complete with juvenile names, a while back. Did they apologize last summer when he had one of the greatest seasons a Red Sox outfielder has ever had?

    And what do you mean "apologize," anyway? Do you think David Ortiz (a) reads this board or (b) cares?

    Oh, one more thing: David Ortiz takes a popularity seat to no one. He's one of the most popular players in the franchise's history.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    In Response to Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP:
    [QUOTE]You are misrepresenting what happened.  There was clearly some risk in rehiring Ortiz for what amounts to absolute top dollar for a DH In fact, it is you who is misrepresenting what happened. Ortiz isn't paid "top dollar" based on his plate production. See Carl Crawford and "on the shelf Ells". As for risk, see dumping nearly 4 million a year on a non-producing Tim Wastefield, "year to year". Ditto Varitek. Both good ole boys weren't a risk to "rehire", they had failed to produce for years after being "rehired" more than once after failing to produce.  
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    Why do you always do this?  I said "top dollar for a DH," and you bring up Crawford, who is not a DH.  It's a good thing you became a tax lawyer because you would lose every time in a courtroom.  Or are you saying all lawyers constantly misdirect and misinterpret what is said?

    I thought the FO would keep Ortiz because he was a key part of a very good offense last season--at one point, in July I think, the Sox had five of the top ten OPS's in the AL: Ells, Youk, Pedey, Papi, and AGon. And without Youk they still finished with the best offense in MLB. 

    Letting Tek and Wake go wasn't all that hard after last season. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    Reception refers to when he initially got here.

    No, reception refers to how a player is received during his tenure. Ortiz wasn't received well when first acquired, and as soon he started slow or had valleys the bigoted Red Sox fan base piled on. Ortiz was not well received when he asked management for a 2 year deal at around 25 million.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    Why do you always do this?  I said "top dollar for a DH

    And I said "not top dollar" for the elite season average production hitter he is. Why do you always try to frame the issue to impugn Ortiz. We both know why that is.

    The Red Sox offense wasn't anywhere close to the top offense in the AL in 2011. You obviously hang your hat on year long cumaltive totals and ignore standard deviation and park factor.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    How do you think the TWINS FO think: David has only gone on to hit 323 HR in a Sox uniform...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

     Did they apologize last summer when he had one of the greatest seasons a Red Sox outfielder has ever had?


    AGon and Pedroia could make a lot of outfielder's have the greatest season a Red Sox outfielder has ever had. Has he apologized for taking an entire year off. And he's back on the shelf, at which time the team started a rare 3 game winning streak.

    Ortiz to Ellsbury is like Ted Williams to Trot Nixon. Drew played better overall baseball in the OF than Ellsbury has or will.  Career wise, people like you like to pretend that Drew was a malcontent. In reality, Drew is a very spiritual person who will have a far superior career to the most overrated "truly almost always on the shelf" childish nickname "Ells". 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    In Response to Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP:
    [QUOTE] Did they apologize last summer when he had one of the greatest seasons a Red Sox outfielder has ever had? AGon and Pedroia could make a lot of outfielder's have the greatest season a Red Sox outfielder has ever had. Has he apologized for taking an entire year off. And he's back on the shelf, at which time the team started a rare 3 game winning streak. Ortiz to Ellsbury is like Ted Williams to Trot Nixon. Drew played better overall baseball in the OF than Ellsbury has or will.  Career wise, people like you like to pretend that Drew was a malcontent. In reality, Drew is a very spiritual person who will have a far superior career to the most overrated "truly almost always on the shelf" childish nickname "Ells". 
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr[/QUOTE]

    How are Dustin Pedroia and Adrian Gonzalez responsible for Ellsbury's MVP-caliber season? A season, I might add, that was far superior to what Pedey and Gonzalez had.

    Also explain, if you can, "people like you" pretending Drew was a malcontent? I never once viewed Drew as a malcontent, and I challenge you to find anything I said even similar to that. Since I've been under the same screen name all this time, it should be easy. As opposed to, say, if I had been banned something like 10 times in the past and had something like 11 different screen names.

    Actually, I've constantly defended Drew, whose contributions to the Sox I've always considered underrated. But being an "attorney," facts probably don't mean a great deal to you.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    In Response to Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP : How are Dustin Pedroia and Adrian Gonzalez responsible for Ellsbury's MVP-caliber season? A season, I might add, that was far superior to what Pedey and Gonzalez had. Also explain, if you can, "people like you" pretending Drew was a malcontent? I never once viewed Drew as a malcontent, and I challenge you to find anything I said even similar to that. Since I've been under the same screen name all this time, it should be easy. As opposed to, say, if I had been banned something like 10 times in the past and had something like 11 different screen names. Actually, I've constantly defended Drew, whose contributions to the Sox I've always considered underrated. But being an "attorney," facts probably don't mean a great deal to you.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    he just has it backwards. pedey & A-gone's awesome year are BECAUSE of big numbah two. he mashes the ball and the speed threat opens holes and makes pitchers throw a steady stream of fastablls for them to munch on.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    This Red Sox fan called Ortiz the best DH in baseball and screamed for him to be resigned to a 2 yr deal. While many here criticize Hank for his thread, I note with interest a failure on some parts to acknowledge that he was right. The greatest failures of the Red Sox organization in recent years, is a complete innability to judge the value of players. While I disagree with Hank on many things, Ellsbury chief among them, the man was correct this time and should be givem his due.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    In Response to Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP:
    [QUOTE]This Red Sox fan called Ortiz the best DH in baseball and screamed for him to be resigned to a 2 yr deal. While many here criticize Hank for his thread, I note with interest a failure on some parts to acknowledge that he was right. The greatest failures of the Red Sox organization in recent years, is a complete innability to judge the value of players. While I disagree with Hank on many things, Ellsbury chief among them, the man was correct this time and should be givem his due.
    Posted by Teakus[/QUOTE]
    With all due, that wasn't the point of his original rant. He's saying anyone who was against re-signing Ortiz should apologize to the big guy. Which is total nonsense. And, for the record, I always supported re-signing Ortiz, whose bobble-head remains on my dresser.

    I don't think anyone would disagree that the Sox have failed to judge the value of certain players (obviously should have kept Beltre, shouldn't have paid so much for Crawford, and oh my god, Lackey, etc.) over the years.


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    Actually he is calling anyone who thought DO should be moved out over the last 3 years (me being one of them) a bigot. Well I am not a bigot. Really tired of that word softlaw as your frequent use for it really weakens whatever good standing you have here.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    Reasonable and important distinctions Lloyd. I agree.




    In Response to Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no longer hit LP : With all due, that wasn't the point of his original rant. He's saying anyone who was against re-signing Ortiz should apologize to the big guy. Which is total nonsense. And, for the record, I always supported re-signing Ortiz, whose bobble-head remains on my dresser. I don't think anyone would disagree that the Sox have failed to judge the value of certain players (obviously should have kept Beltre, shouldn't have paid so much for Crawford, and oh my god, Lackey, etc.) over the years.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Most Red Sox fans Gave up on Ortiz and wanted to "spend the money elsewhere", One Poster claimed he could no lo...

    Just like Ellsbury has embarrassed you and Mike Aviles is starting to do the same

    Ellsbury has embarrassed you with his MIA status in 2010 and 2012, which counts the same as your beloved "career year" after AGon, a true superstar, arrived to provide the meat market.
     
     

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