Not Upset with last nite's Loss

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fenwayjack2. Show fenwayjack2's posts

    Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    It was bound to happen.  Too many times the Sox are trying to dig their way out of a hole instead of grabbing the lead.  I also can't recall the last time AGON blasted one out either.  I strongly suggest they score a couple in the first inning and put the other team back on their heels. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from can-you-dig-it. Show can-you-dig-it's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    agreed fenway, nothing to worry about, we got this division no problem.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yoshimi25. Show Yoshimi25's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    It is unrealistic to expect to win every single game.  There are some games that are lost because of dumb plays or stupid mistakes...there are some games that are lost because the other team was just a bit better than your team. 

    To be furious over every single loss is silly.  But it is understandable to be upset with losses due to dumb mistakes. 

    And by dumb mistakes I mean things like base running errors or fielding errors or mixed signals.  You can't say that bringing in Pitcher X was dumb mistake because Pitcher X gave up the Grand Salami unless you KNEW 100% without a doubt that he was a) Going to throw a meatball with the sack full and b) Terry KNEW he was going to throw a meatball with the sacks full and put him in anyway. 

    Now, true, you may be able to predict that Pitcher X might do that, and you may feel 85% sure he's gonna do that..but when it boils down to it, it's pretty much Schrodinger's Cat. 

    Wow...I really ramble too much.  Good thing you guys don't have to put up with me in person! :)
     
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    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE]It is unrealistic to expect to win every single game.  There are some games that are lost because of dumb plays or stupid mistakes...there are some games that are lost because the other team was just a bit better than your team.  To be furious over every single loss is silly.  But it is understandable to be upset with losses due to dumb mistakes.  And by dumb mistakes I mean things like base running errors or fielding errors or mixed signals.  You can't say that bringing in Pitcher X was dumb mistake because Pitcher X gave up the Grand Salami unless you KNEW 100% without a doubt that he was a) Going to throw a meatball with the sack full and b) Terry KNEW he was going to throw a meatball with the sacks full and put him in anyway.  Now, true, you may be able to predict that Pitcher X might do that, and you may feel 85% sure he's gonna do that..but when it boils down to it, it's pretty much Schrodinger's Cat.  Wow...I really ramble too much.  Good thing you guys don't have to put up with me in person! :)
    Posted by Yoshimi25[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sindarin-erebor. Show sindarin-erebor's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    Yes, a victory vs. the M's would be very nice. In recent history we have had our share of problems with Seattle at Seattle. Let's just go out and thrash them.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

     Excuse me, but I was upset with last night's loss. The team had fought back to tie the score at 2-2, after being down the entire game, and for some strange reason Francona decided to trot Lester back out in the 8th. He was already over 100 pitches and had been wild and seemingly frustrated the entire night with some of the umpiring calls. He was hardly ever able to get a first pitch strike and was behind on almost every batter. I thought it odd that he was on the mound for the 7th and after struggling during that inning, I was shocked that he was out there to start the 8th. So how did he start the 8th? He started it with a lead off walk. And where was Bard to quell the threat? Bard had been given some time off recently and with thursday a day off I expected to see him on the mound to start the inning.
     I understand that we can't win them all and that even with Bard on the mound we might have lost the game, but running a mostly used-up Lester out there seemed to be courting disaster. I think Francona has made some great decisions this year but I don't view last night's pitching moves among them.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE] Excuse me, but I was upset with last night's loss. The team had fought back to tie the score at 2-2, after being down the entire game, and for some strange reason Francona decided to trot Lester back out in the 8th. He was already over 100 pitches and had been wild and seemingly frustrated the entire night with some of the umpiring calls. He was hardly ever able to get a first pitch strike and was behind on almost every batter. I thought it odd that he was on the mound for the 7th and after struggling during that inning, I was shocked that he was out there to start the 8th. So how did he start the 8th? He started it with a lead off walk. And where was Bard to quell the threat? Bard had been given some time off recently and with thursday a day off I expected to see him on the mound to start the inning.  I understand that we can't win them all and that even with Bard on the mound we might have lost the game, but running a mostly used-up Lester out there seemed to be courting disaster. I think Francona has made some great decisions this year but I don't view last night's pitching moves among them.
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE] Tippy was over due for a loss directly atributable to his lack of in game managing. You are correct where Lester was concerned he was gassed! The move that could have saved this game simply elluded the genius of Tippy,when the runners were on 1rst and 2nd and one out he had Aceves ready and he refused to take out Lester,he should have issued the intentional pass to Thome and brought in Aceves to face Valencia. As it turns out Valencia grounded out into what would have been an inning ending DP using basic pitching manuevers. Tippy has lost more games in his career via the braindead managing tool he pocesses...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    Lester was out there so he would have a chance at a "W" Period !! I guarantee you had the Sox been ahead by a run or two He would never been out there !! I'm glad everybody is rested !!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    Francona does try to squeeze extra outs of his starters many times during the season, no doubt about that.  Sometimes it probably contributes to losses.  I think it's not about getting wins for his pitchers but trying not to overtax the bullpen.  I also think the other managers do it plenty too.  Check out some of Burnett's games this year.  He's had quite a few games where he cruised through the first five innings or so and then got lit up in the sixth or seventh.  By now Girardi must have a pretty good idea this is going to happen, but he can't keep yanking Burnett after the fifth or his bullpen will be shot.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    Here come the boo birds where there wonderful 20-20 hindsight.  The Sox did not fight back to tie the game.  It was Big Papi with a solo homer.  This was the 20th game in 20 days, and Francona had used the bullpen, especially Bard and Papelgon, a lot. 

    If Bard had pitched the 8th and given up a run, the same complainers would be on here, "why in the world did he send Bard out there?  He's been giving up dingers lately, plus he is clearly tired.  Why didn't he send Lester back out or, better still, use Aceves?"

    The Sox can't win every game, nor can Francona.  But you can't tell that to the boo birds. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    Bard and Papelbon were not available last night. Sometimes, you need to throw a sheep to the wolves for the good of the herd
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    The sheep is Francona, and the wolves are faux Sox fans. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE]Bard and Papelbon were not available last night. Sometimes, you need to throw a sheep to the wolves for the good of the herd
    Posted by J-BAY[/QUOTE]

    As I like to explain sometimes, there are reasons why the best BB team only plays .600, and the best teams in other sports play .750-.800.  Part of it is the dependence on the BP.  Throw guys 2-3 in a row, and they have to have a night off.  Once you have to give your top two guys off, you are not going to win a lot of games.

    With the score 3-3, you have to be thinking of extra innings.  With two guys out, it won't take you long before Miller is on the mound, and you'd be wishing that they'd given Lester another inning.
     
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    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE]Here come the boo birds where there wonderful 20-20 hindsight.  The Sox did not fight back to tie the game.  It was Big Papi with a solo homer.  This was the 20th game in 20 days, and Francona had used the bullpen, especially Bard and Papelgon, a lot.  If Bard had pitched the 8th and given up a run, the same complainers would be on here, "why in the world did he send Bard out there?  He's been giving up dingers lately, plus he is clearly tired.  Why didn't he send Lester back out or, better still, use Aceves?" The Sox can't win every game, nor can Francona.  But you can't tell that to the boo birds. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]

    Max...you have their number.  Nice post.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    Who's upset with a loss when we're going to win the World Series?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss : As I like to explain sometimes, there are reasons why the best BB team only plays .600, and the best teams in other sports play .750-.800.  Part of it is the dependence on the BP.  Throw guys 2-3 in a row, and they have to have a night off.  Once you have to give your top two guys off, you are not going to win a lot of games. With the score 3-3, you have to be thinking of extra innings.  With two guys out, it won't take you long before Miller is on the mound, and you'd be wishing that they'd given Lester another inning.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps, but 70 yrs ago this was also true, when the BP was a much smaller factor.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE]Here come the boo birds where there wonderful 20-20 hindsight.  The Sox did not fight back to tie the game.  It was Big Papi with a solo homer.  This was the 20th game in 20 days, and Francona had used the bullpen, especially Bard and Papelgon, a lot.  If Bard had pitched the 8th and given up a run, the same complainers would be on here, "why in the world did he send Bard out there?  He's been giving up dingers lately, plus he is clearly tired.  Why didn't he send Lester back out or, better still, use Aceves?" The Sox can't win every game, nor can Francona.  But you can't tell that to the boo birds. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]


    agreed, but can we compromise and say that the SOX could win more games w/o 'cona?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE]It is unrealistic to expect to win every single game.  There are some games that are lost because of dumb plays or stupid mistakes...there are some games that are lost because the other team was just a bit better than your team.  To be furious over every single loss is silly.  But it is understandable to be upset with losses due to dumb mistakes.  And by dumb mistakes I mean things like base running errors or fielding errors or mixed signals.  You can't say that bringing in Pitcher X was dumb mistake because Pitcher X gave up the Grand Salami unless you KNEW 100% without a doubt that he was a) Going to throw a meatball with the sack full and b) Terry KNEW he was going to throw a meatball with the sacks full and put him in anyway.  Now, true, you may be able to predict that Pitcher X might do that, and you may feel 85% sure he's gonna do that..but when it boils down to it, it's pretty much Schrodinger's Cat.  Wow...I really ramble too much.  Good thing you guys don't have to put up with me in person! :)
    Posted by Yoshimi25[/QUOTE]

    i would love to OD on your rambling.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss : agreed, but can we compromise and say that the SOX could win more games w/o 'cona?
    Posted by -theyazzer-[/QUOTE]

    I don't think we can compromise.  Here are my reasons--

    First, Francona was hired in part because he like the entire management team believes in sabermetrics, Bill James, etc.  This means he won't bunt very often, which drives the boo birds nuts.  If the Sox hire someone else, they will want him to follow the same line.   

    Second, Francona has the best track record of any Red Sox manager--ever-- primarily because he has sustained it for eight seasons.  No one else comes close.  No one else won two WS and went to the playoffs 6 of 8 years or whatever.  In fact, he has outmanaged his Yankee counterparts (Torre and Girardi) during those eight years.  You boo birds have ridiculously high expectations. 

    Third, I don't agree with all the 20-20 hindsight stuff from people like you.  The day you can show me your contribution to the game thread in which you state before the fact what Francona should do and are proven right is the day I might give you boo birds some credit.  I think there is a very good rationale behind every decision Francona makes.  But even the best decision-making does not invariably result in success.  Sometimes players commit errors, fail to get a hit, can't find the strike zone, serve up fat pitches, whatever.  And some days the other team just plays better.  You guys never, ever recognize that simple fact. 
     
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    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE] Excuse me, but I was upset with last night's loss. The team had fought back to tie the score at 2-2, after being down the entire game, and for some strange reason Francona decided to trot Lester back out in the 8th. He was already over 100 pitches and had been wild and seemingly frustrated the entire night with some of the umpiring calls. He was hardly ever able to get a first pitch strike and was behind on almost every batter. I thought it odd that he was on the mound for the 7th and after struggling during that inning, I was shocked that he was out there to start the 8th. So how did he start the 8th? He started it with a lead off walk. And where was Bard to quell the threat? Bard had been given some time off recently and with thursday a day off I expected to see him on the mound to start the inning.  I understand that we can't win them all and that even with Bard on the mound we might have lost the game, but running a mostly used-up Lester out there seemed to be courting disaster. I think Francona has made some great decisions this year but I don't view last night's pitching moves among them.
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    I'll tell you why he was back out there for the 8th. Because Francona doesn't want to use Bard or Pap back to back unless absolutely necessary. had this been the rubber game, you would have seen Bard. Francona had the series won, and he doesn't trust anyone else to pitch the 8th except Bard, so he figured his best bet was to stick with Jon.
    He's a bonehead when it comes to managing the BP, or the starters for that matter.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

     To maxbialstock: A person has an opinion different from yours so you label him a faux fan and a boo bird. Just out of curiosity, who appointed you the Grand Pooh bah of this site? It looked to me as if Lester had nothing left in the tank and I think a number of posters agreed with that. In any event, who are you to start demeaning other fans? That's something that losers usually opt for!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from -theyazzer-. Show -theyazzer-'s posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE] To maxbialstock: A person has an opinion different from yours so you label him a faux fan and a boo bird. Just out of curiosity, who appointed you the Grand Pooh bah of this site? It looked to me as if Lester had nothing left in the tank and I think a number of posters agreed with that. In any event, who are you to start demeaning other fans? That's something that losers usually opt for!
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]


    i'll give max the benefit of the doubt; it's possible he is somehow related to 'cona.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE] To maxbialstock: A person has an opinion different from yours so you label him a faux fan and a boo bird. Just out of curiosity, who appointed you the Grand Pooh bah of this site? It looked to me as if Lester had nothing left in the tank and I think a number of posters agreed with that. In any event, who are you to start demeaning other fans? That's something that losers usually opt for!
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    A fair point.  If you or any other fan honestly feels that way, that Lester should not have gone back out there, you absolutely are entitled to your opinion. 

    My heartburn isn't with those who occasionally disagree with Francona.  Anyone could do that.  Heck, they may even be right. 

    My bias, of course, is that Francona knows his players a lot better than we do.  Wed night, for example, his bullpen did not have a full tank of gas with Bard and Pap off the the list.  The score was tied, which could have meant extra innings on a night when the Sox were playing their 20th game in 20 days.  And so on.  But I agree with you it's OK to disagree with that decison. 

    My heartburn is with those fans, and there are a number of them on this board, who emphatically believe that Francona never does anything right, that all wins are because of the players and that all losses are his fault.  That point of view is to me unsupportable.  And to me those fans are false fans, boo birds, or whatever. 

    The Sox, after a slow start, are having a great year so far despite pitching issues (Dice-K and Buchholz on the DL; Lackey was on it, also Lester; etc).  And still we have these "fans" rising up after every single loss telling the rest of us how stupid Francona is.  

    I don't buy that.  And guess what?  I'm entitled to that opinion as much as you are to yours. 

    And guess what else?  There is not a single sports commentator--for ESPN, SI, MLB.COM, Fox TV, sporting news, etc--anywhere who would agree with those Sox  fans who say Francona is too stupid to manage this team. 



     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE]Lester was out there so he would have a chance at a "W" Period !! I guarantee you had the Sox been ahead by a run or two He would never been out there !! I'm glad everybody is rested !!
    Posted by ALaGatorAL[/QUOTE]

    I think it's funny how some fans want to imply that Francona is some sort of mental genius. He's not, and you're exactly correct. He was trying to get Lester a chance at a win. That was more important than trying to do what's best for the TEAM to have a chance at winning a winnable game.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss

    In Response to Re: Not Upset with last nite's Loss:
    [QUOTE] To maxbialstock: A person has an opinion different from yours so you label him a faux fan and a boo bird. Just out of curiosity, who appointed you the Grand Pooh bah of this site? It looked to me as if Lester had nothing left in the tank and I think a number of posters agreed with that. In any event, who are you to start demeaning other fans? That's something that losers usually opt for!
    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]

    For evidence of genuine boo birds, see comments above by yazzer and of course the world renowned bosox1941.  Neither has ever said anything good about Francona. 

     

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