Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattb5fon. Show mattb5fon's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    I think this is a blessing if it does stay at 1 year. That will give us even more flexibility going forward. If Lavarnway proves to be a good hitter and or Middlebrooks can move up next year we have the opening at DH
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    In Response to Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration : moon - Absurd comment in that Salty is also cheap. Why would they trade him? Posted by ADG Because some Gm will be fooled by his High HRs and over-value him. Salty broke down playing only 103 games. He can't field, his arm was good, but has a history of wildness. His stock is high and we have Lava to catch instead of DH. I wouldn't just dump Salty, but I think he has high enough value to get us a nice pen arm, and we gain by starting Lava at catcher as well. Two pluses for the price of one. Mr. Moon I'm with ADG on this one.  I think you are underestimating a couple things in calling for Salty to be traded: injuries!  As we have seen in 3 recent seasons injuries can destroy the best plans.  Having catching depth sounds good to me. inexperience!  You say Salty broke down, but want to hand over the reins to  a guy who wasn't a regular at catcher last year.  I read Salty lost loads of weight during the season which is normal he said, I would guess it is totally normal for a first year catcher to slump in September. cost!  Salty is cheap and remember he was the top catcher in MLB in XBH / PA.  He has a strong arm and I don't think it is likely Lava will handle the staff better with his major lack of experience. Salty may not be great but give him time, put Lava in AAA to start the season and let him catch almost every day.  I was disappointed he had to split time last year at catcher with Exposito, who should have been moved by Theo.
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]
    I agree that Salty should and probably will open the season as Boston's starting catcher. He made progress until he tired. He works at his job. This is not the time to bounce him to his fourth team. 
    Ortiz will be back. In all likelihood Youkilis will be back. The question, then, is whether Tek will be signed to back up Salty, with Lavarnway starting the year in AAA, or whether Tek will go and Lavarnway back up Salty. If the Sox view Lavarnway as a future catcher, he needs to go to AAA and catch.  But suppose that Salty settles in and nails down the job. Where does that leave Lavarnway? Trade material? Tried in the outfield? He's too young and hits too well to be looking at a career as a back-up catcher. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    But suppose that Salty settles in and nails down the job. Where does that leave Lavarnway? Trade material? He's too young and hits too well to be looking at a career as a back-up catcher.

    Mr Ex-P, Let's hope that comes to pass and they both develop into obvious starters.  Great problem I say.  These things have a way of working out.  I feel Lava would be best served as AAA catcher to the AS break to get a better assessment of him.  If he is a future DH then Salty fills a need.

    If possible I'd like one more year of Ortiz, age waits for nobody.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    Because some GM will be fooled by his High HRs and over-value him. Salty broke down playing only 103 games. He can't field, his arm was good, but has a history of wildness. His stock is high and we have Lava to catch instead of DH.

    I wouldn't just dump Salty, but I think he has high enough value to get us a nice pen arm, and we gain by starting Lava at catcher as well. Two pluses for the price of one. 

    Mr. Moon

    I'm with ADG on this one.  I think you are underestimating a couple things in calling for Salty to be traded:

    injuries!  As we have seen in 3 recent seasons injuries can destroy the best plans.  Having catching depth sounds good to me.

    Welcome back tom; I haven't seen you around much. Yes, injuries are a concern, but I have very little faith in Salty as a catcher, and he is not a good enough hitter to ever be a DH in Boston.

    inexperience!  You say Salty broke down, but you want to hand over the reins to  a guy who wasn't a regular at catcher last year.  I read Salty lost loads of weight during the season which is normal he said, I would guess it is totally normal for a first year catcher to slump in September.

    I'd hardly call this his "first year". He had 386 PAs this year, but had 329 in 2007, 230 in '08, and 310 in '09. He had over 1,600 innings as a MLb catcher before this year.

    I'm not saying give him away. I see us not being able to afford to upgrade our staff as much as needed, so I look at positions where we can trade someone and not lose as much ground as we gain in the return player's improvement of another position (pitching).

    cost!  Salty is cheap and remember he was the top catcher in MLB in XBH / PA.  He has a strong arm and I don't think it is likely Lava will handle the staff better with his major lack of experience.

    Because he is cheap and under team control, and can hit as a catcher, his value is also high for trading. I do not want to trade Lava, and Lava seems like our most likely prospect to make an impact in 2012...except, if Papi signs, he has not place to play! That is the reason, I see more value in trading Salty than keeping him.
    1) Improve our depleted pen
    2) Make way for Lava.

    Salty may not be great but give him time, put Lava in AAA to start the season and let him catch almost every day.  I was disappointed he had to split time last year at catcher with Exposito, who should have been moved by Theo.

    I agree; Lava should have played more games at catcher in AAA last year.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MichFan. Show MichFan's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    I wouldn't say Youk is our 3rd baseman.  He doesn't want to play there.  He wants 1st base but he isn't going to get it.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    Last year, he said he wanted 3B. I haven't read anything about him now wanting back to 1B. Do you have a link?

    He certainly is a better fit at 1B/DH, but just not for the Sox. He seems like good trade bait, but we need his RH'd bat and OBP.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    I think it was a foregone conclusion that Ortiz would accept arbitration.  He might make more in 1 year than he would in a 2 yr. market offer.  Arbitration is a good solution, if they can't come to a 2 yr. deal he'll have one hell of a payday and more motivation to have a productive year.   
     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    In Response to Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration:
    [QUOTE]I think it was a foregone conclusion that Ortiz would accept arbitration.  He might make more in 1 year than he would in a 2 yr. market offer.  Arbitration is a good solution, if they can't come to a 2 yr. deal he'll have one hell of a payday and more motivation to have a productive year.   
    Posted by CablesWyndBairn[/QUOTE]

    That is one of Papi's reason on why he is just accepting the one year deal cuz it is worth more than any other teams that offered him two years deal with lesser money involved.  Per reading MLB trade rumors that Boston want to give him 2 years deal for 18 million dollars total where Boston can save 4 to 5 million dollars for this year payroll to spend on something else.  But for my opinion, I rather to let him to get the one year deal for 14 mm to 15 mm so Boston can just let him walk after the 2012 season.  Forget two picks!!!!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    I agree. I think he may be good for 25-30 homers and 85 to 95 ribbies in 2012 but I bet he declines steeply thereafter.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    Ortiz on a 1 year arb deal is a win-win for both sides.  If he performs he'll get another contract.  Perfect situation. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    You would be wrong, he will complain about lack of security. He will not be happy with any one year arrangment.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    That may be, be he isn't getting 14 mil or a two year 18 mil deal (as reportedly could happen) anywhere else.  It's tough times for millionaires. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    In Response to Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration:
    [QUOTE]You would be wrong, he will complain about lack of security. He will not be happy with any one year arrangment.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    Then he should decline Boston's arbitration offer, and accept one of the better offer from the five teams that he stated that they were interested him!!!

    It is not like he kept getting one year deal from one year to another.  He signed 5 years contract starting for the 2007, and now he is in his last year contract where he could get a raise in his final year of his contract.  

    Dont try to say he need security!!!  He is going to be 37 years old next year on his final year of his contract.  He will go on decline possible starting next season!!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    In Response to Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration:
    [QUOTE]Dewey I agree--Ortiz is a bad addition. JH needs to accept a Luxury Tax increase and increase the amount he is willing to spend. The Sox made a mistake offering arb to Papi and this was your decision John Henry. Spend some additional money and put a team on the field the fans deserve. I cannot believe the Boston Red Sox will be standing pat at this meeting when your Marlins, John Henry,  are making a mockery of the baseball meetings. You are allowing our team to free fall by not finding an established closer, I'm not saying Madson but at least Houston Street or Andrew Bailey. A right field candidate--what is the problem signing either Beltran or Cuddyer. John Henry this is rediculous that you are allowing the franchise to go the route of your Marlins from  a few years ago when you sold the team out.
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]

    I thought Ben was the GM?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    Reading this forum remind me of when I was in the Navy dealing with supply types. Anytime we wanted to spend money for needed equipment, you would think the money was coming out of the Storekeepers' pocket.
    Who cares how much the RS spend on players or what the team payroll is? How does that affect us as fans? Let's just get who we need to get, and let Henry worry about the cost. Do you think the ticket prices are coming down if they manage to save a few bucks?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from crmn19. Show crmn19's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    Retaining Ortiz will cost more games in the long-run than he will win with any heroics.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    In Response to Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration:
    [QUOTE]But suppose that Salty settles in and nails down the job. Where does that leave Lavarnway? Trade material? He's too young and hits too well to be looking at a career as a back-up catcher. Mr Ex-P, Let's hope that comes to pass, and they both develop into obvious starters.  Great problem I say.  These things have a way of working out.  I feel Lava would be best served as AAA catcher to the AS break to get a better assessment of him.  If he is a future DH then Salty fills a need. If possible I'd like one more year of Ortiz, age waits for nobody.
    Posted by tom-uk[/QUOTE]
    As you say, Salty/Lavarnway may well sort itself out during the course of the next two seasons, if neither is traded.
    Hard to imagine that someone Lavarnway's age would embrace the DH role in the near future, but you never know. Even 50 games behind the plate would probably not satisfy him. If he develops into a good catcher, he'll want to catch.
    Maybe things will go the other way, but then Salty might be an unhappy back-up. 
    This is one to watch. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    I do not think Salty would be traded. I am just saying that it might make sense to deal him only if we get a good return. The upside would be that Lava gets a FT job, and isn't riding the bench when he needs to be playing nearly everyday. Lava can rest a few games by playing DH vs LHPs that Papi struggles with.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    I think all this really means to Sox fans is that when the word leaked out from Ben that the Sox would not be players in the FA market...it was the truth.  Next year will be a competitive Sox team with a questionable starting staff but with great hitting...ala last years Yanks.  If CC rebounds, the team could be close to awesome...at least until September.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    We now have Moonslow talking about starting a rookie at catcher, instead of splitting the duty with a veteran under 40 years old. What about sacred CERA. Debra Barone, call this kid an idiot.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    So, what happened to those "serious offers on the table" Ortiz and his agent so obviously leaked out? Oops, he's just a money-grubbing pig like the majority of athletes and plays off the support he gets from fans in Boston.

    At any rate, does he even make it out of Spring Training before he AGAIN starts talking about wanting a multi-year deal? He's been whining about money and a new contract for the better part of 3 seasons. Enough is enough, they should have let him go get paid somewhere he ISN'T a god. What a rude awakening THAT would have been.

    Keep wearing those dark sunglasses for nighttime interviews too, dude. You look SO COOL!

    And, what, exactly, was his 30/100 worth this past year?

    Oh yeah.

    Should've spent the money on pitching.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    In Response to Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration:
    [QUOTE]So, what happened to those "serious offers on the table" Ortiz and his agent so obviously leaked out? Oops, he's just a money-grubbing pig like the majority of athletes and plays off the support he gets from fans in Boston. At any rate, does he even make it out of Spring Training before he AGAIN starts talking about wanting a multi-year deal? He's been whining about money and a new contract for the better part of 3 seasons. Enough is enough, they should have let him go get paid somewhere he ISN'T a god. What a rude awakening THAT would have been. Keep wearing those dark sunglasses for nighttime interviews too, dude. You look SO COOL! And, what, exactly, was his 30/100 worth this past year? Oh yeah. Should've spent the money on pitching.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]
    I suspect the Red Sox offered David Ortiz arbitration because the Sox thought Ortiz in fact would attract "serious offers" and therefore a declined arbitration offer would result in compensatory draft picks.

    Perhaps each side misjudged the market.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    We now have Moonslow talking about starting a rookie at catcher, instead of splitting the duty with a veteran under 40 years old...

    "Now"?

    I have said all along, if Papi signs, there's close to a zero percent chance Vtek will be back with the Sox. 

    I have clearly seperated what I would like to see happen and what will probably happen. You keep confusing the two.

    If Lava was to be the 2012 DH, then I felt a Salty-VTek catching combo (with Lava catching here and there) would work well for a year. Salty hits RHPs way better than LHPs, and Vtek hits the opposite. The same is not true of a Lava/VTek combo. Lava hits LHPs better as well. We'd probably also need a catcher who might have to be called upon to catch near FT if Lava has issues catching. VTek is not that guy. I never said he was.

    Salty had a good hitting stretch and brought his CS% up nicely in 2011. I feel some GM out there will be fooled by the thought of having a switch-hitting nice bat catcher who has a good arm and will "over-value" him. I think we can get more than what even Salty fans think he is worth...namely, a good pen arm. On top of that, I do not value Salty as much as most posters here seem to be doing. The guy only caught 103 games, had 380+ PAs, and fell apart. Throw out the PBs and WPs with Wake and he was still awful. Yes, he is young. He is about the age VTek was when he started to show what he was made of. For this reason, I see no chance the Sox will trade him. Injury concerns are another reason. If Papi goes down, Lava could DH and we'd need Salty or have to deal for someone if he is dealt. I get that. However, unlike you, softy, I do not think we can or should totally rebuild this staff into a winner with "dumpster dives" or "value deals" that are nonexistent. We need to think seriously about giving up players with value in exchange for players of value. We have to think about possibly sacrificing some of our offense in order to improve our pitching.

    As to the sacred CERA: Lava can not do much worse than Salty, and I wouldn't trade Lava. If Papi stays here, it seems like Lava will not get enough PAs on the big club to help him grow as he should. Trading Salty solves that issue. Perhaps signing or trading for a cheap vet back-up (and I'm not talking Vtek here) makes sense, if and only if we get a nice pitcher as part of any Salty deal. I'm not dumping Salty. I'm suggesting we trade him as his stock is high, while not stepping down by replacing him with Lava.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration

    In Response to Re: Ortiz to Accept Arbitration:
    [QUOTE]So, what happened to those "serious offers on the table" Ortiz and his agent so obviously leaked out? Oops, he's just a money-grubbing pig like the majority of athletes and plays off the support he gets from fans in Boston. At any rate, does he even make it out of Spring Training before he AGAIN starts talking about wanting a multi-year deal? He's been whining about money and a new contract for the better part of 3 seasons. Enough is enough, they should have let him go get paid somewhere he ISN'T a god. What a rude awakening THAT would have been. Keep wearing those dark sunglasses for nighttime interviews too, dude. You look SO COOL! And, what, exactly, was his 30/100 worth this past year? Oh yeah. Should've spent the money on pitching.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    Exactly. The Red Sox are not good negotiators. Should have let him test the free agent market.  That is what the Red Sox get for being greedy and trying to get a first round pick. 

     

Share