Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

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    Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    Unfortunately, the Red Sox don't have the outfield depth in Pawtucket to DFA both of those guys, but based on performance, they should both be gone. I would guess that when Crawford comes back one of them will be gone.

    Also, Mike Cameron getting picked off in a 5-1 game is inexcusable. Did anyone in the press ask him what he was thinking? Who knows how many runs they would have gotten if he had stayed conservative in a 5-1 game. After he got picked off, Ellsbury, Pedroia walked and AGON singled.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    I think if neither one of these guys can pick it up with the stick, the Sox will be looking for a RH bat before the deadline next month.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

                        ADG, Thats why they have 1B coaches, to make sure the runner pays attention and stays close to not get picked. 
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]                    ADG, Thats why they have 1B coaches, to make sure the runner pays attention and stays close to not get picked. 
    Posted by eggplants[/QUOTE]

    Say WHAT?? The runner is responsible for taking his lead and watching the pitchers move to either first or home...THIS IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE RUNNER!!

    Plus, the 1B coach wouldn't have enough time to advise runner to get back to the bag since pickoffs take a split second to complete. Don't blame coaches for mistakes the PLAYERS make!

     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]I think if neither one of these guys can pick it up with the stick, the Sox will be looking for a RH bat before the deadline next month.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]I tend to agree but looking and finding may be two very different things if the market ends up as tight as some think it will. Revenue sharing and parity certainly limits the supply.

    I also think many fans are being excessively pessimistic about Mac. He just hasn't had much of a chance to do anything with the RS this year. Mac has had exactly 40 PAs with the RS all season and those for the most part were spread over a very long period of time because he started year behind Cameron on the depth chart. Seems RS Nation is all ga-ga over Reddick who in over 200 PAs was batting .230 because he finally started to walk (.330 OBP). But Mac in a limited visit to Pawtucket where he got a steady string of ABs was lights out good.

    Cam on the other hand is a 38 year old who missed pretty much all of 2010. His sample set is getting large. After 95 PAs Cam has pretty much had one good game at the plate. While the fact he got picked off yesterday is an over reaction to a single game his offense is a real concern. His defense is still there but ...

    Making the bench players a greater concern is that JD Drew appears to be well on his way to retirement and is not producing either. I still think that this all sorts itself out in the next two weeks. Mac and Cam will get more regular PT because with Drew now being a true platoon player and Crawford on the DL both get to play.

    I still think one will break out and that IMO it will be Mac. But it isn't going to be eye popping numbers. The RS are weak in the OF, they knew it and that is a large part of why they paid so much for so long to Crawford.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]                    ADG, Thats why they have 1B coaches, to make sure the runner pays attention and stays close to not get picked. 
    Posted by eggplants[/QUOTE]

    Eggplants - Are you kidding me? Maybe at the Little League level. Wow.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac : I tend to agree but looking and finding may be two very different things if the market ends up as tight as some think it will. Revenue sharing and parity certainly limits the supply. I also think many fans are being excessively pessimistic about Mac. He just hasn't had much of a chance to do anything with the RS this year. Mac has had exactly 40 PAs with the RS all season and those for the most part were spread over a very long period of time because he started year behind Cameron on the depth chart. Seems RS Nation is all ga-ga over Reddick who in over 200 PAs was batting .230 because he finally started to walk (.330 OBP). But Mac in a limited visit to Pawtucket where he got a steady string of ABs was lights out good. Cam on the other hand is a 38 year old who missed pretty much all of 2010. His sample set is getting large. After 95 PAs Cam has pretty much had one good game at the plate. While the fact he got picked off yesterday is an over reaction to a single game his offense is a real concern. His defense is still there but ... Making the bench players a greater concern is that JD Drew appears to be well on his way to retirement and is not producing either. I still think that this all sorts itself out in the next two weeks. Mac and Cam will get more regular PT because with Drew now being a true platoon player and Crawford on the DL both get to play. I still think one will break out and that IMO it will be Mac. But it isn't going to be eye popping numbers. The RS are weak in the OF, they knew it and that is a large part of why they paid so much for so long to Crawford.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Good points, but there was a reason why DMac labored in the minor leagues for so many years. His sample size is small, but have you seen his at bats? Not productive at all. There have been way too many occasions when they had a rally going and the pitcher was showing signs of wildness and DMac would either swing at the first pitch or K. Any other batter with an average and minimum 30 at bats is either released or in the minor leagues. He doesn't belong period.
    I would guess that once Crawford comes back, that DMac with be DFA'd. They will probably get an OF in the next 3-4 weeks, or when Lowrie comes back, keep Sutton up, who again is an AAAA player.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

                             soxdog67 & ADG. If the 1B coach has no responsibility in this matter what is he standing there for? The 1B coach's focus is supposed to be on the pitcher. He yells BACK when he sees the pitcher not going home. The runner takes the coaches audio command to get back to the bag. During the cat and mouse period, the coach is saying O.K., O.K. as the runner is getting his primary lead and STOP, STOP if the lead is getting too big. An interested observer in all of this is the opposing Catcher. The second he sees the runner too far off he gives the Pitcher the signal for his quick move and Bingo! he picks him.                                                You guys thought the 1B  coach was there for what ? Just fanny patting?       The runners responsibility is to listen to the 1B coach and pickup the signal from the 3rd. base coaches box, if thats where it's coming from. The runners responsibility also requires him to freeze on line drives until they clear the infield so he doesn't get doubled up. He also has to judge plays that the outfielder has on the ball and run or not run accordingly.  Actually the part about listening to your coach does start at the LL level. The only part that's different at the ML level is that you're dealing with older kids. 
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac : Good points, but there was a reason why DMac labored in the minor leagues for so many years. His sample size is small, but have you seen his at bats? Not productive at all. There have been way too many occasions when they had a rally going and the pitcher was showing signs of wildness and DMac would either swing at the first pitch or K. Any other batter with an average and minimum 30 at bats is either released or in the minor leagues. He doesn't belong period. I would guess that once Crawford comes back, that DMac with be DFA'd. They will probably get an OF in the next 3-4 weeks, or when Lowrie comes back, keep Sutton up, who again is an AAAA player.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]Actually I have been watching Mac's ABs (not yesterday I had the game on radio - at work). He has been hitting the ball very squarely but right at people since coming off of the DL. He was crushing it in Pawtucket right before he was called up, 10 H in 39 PAs and 1.112 OPS  (the same place where Reddick's .234 BA doesn't seem to faze anyone).

    Navarro once he is back on track from the DL is more likely to get a call up than Sutton is to stick with the RS. He can play the corners in OF and all 4 IF spots. He actually has been hitting much better this year than Reddick if you treasure BA as part of OBP, way better. He is a right handed bat too.

    Mac may well get cut because it will leave a welt in the RS pride to DFA Cameron but with over twice as many PAs and his age it is more likely he is toast.

    But nobody with 30 bad PAs is released or sent the minors or Dustin Pedroia would be down there right now.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    One could look at 2010 as a fluke for DMac, but I agree, his 2011 sample size is too small and sporadic to make a definitive judgement over. The guy is 32 and was in the minors from 1998 to 2004, had 34 PAs in 2004, then went back to the minors before returning to the majors 3 years later in 2007 at age 28 (for just 11 PAs). Back to the minors until 2009 when he had 111 PAs with Cincy at age 30. His career numbers are:
    .247/.307/.384/.691.
    That is not good for an OF'er.

    He played great for us in 2010, but is not a great fielder.

    I like him on this team, but agree with katz, when Navarro comes back, he's more flexible and may force Cam or DMac to go.

    I also think Drew has at least one more hot streak left in him.

    In 2010 Drew started off with a .695 April OPS, but then had an .851 and .965 May and June.

    In 2009, Drew had a .961 June and 1.093 in August and 1.136 Sept. with 12 HRs and 28 RBIs in his last 48 games played.

    In 2008, Drew had sub .800 Aprils and Mays, then a 1.309 June.

    In 2007, Drew went .769 and .552 in April and May then .963 in June.

    June seems to be his magic month. Let's hope he explodes soon. He's at .588 so far this month.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    Moon: I think Drew is aging out. The problem is with him. Cam/Mac need to produce at some point, otherwise, it puts a ton of pressure on Pedey/Youk vs. southpaws. This is fixable by July 31st. But I think we are in the process of seeing Reddick s l o w l y taking over for Drew.

    It'll be hard to take for Drew, a very proud man. And if Mac/Cam were producing, it would help negate the effect Drew is having. But his two-year poor OBP and the SO's recently tell me he is becoming over-matched in areas where he never has been to such a large extent.

    Funny thing is, with all the talk about Tek's age and Wake's, it's Drew that's now the problem.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    Pedey has struggled vs RHPs for a couple years. This year he has turned it around in that area.

    I agree, JD may be beyond hope  for a hot streak, but to me, he has still done better in 2011 (when factoring in defense) than Cam, DMac, and Crawford.

    Now, Reddick is another story.

    I've never been a big JD fan and have always said he was overpaid, but I have defended him at times against those who have bashed him for low RBI totals and those discounting OBP value.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac : Actually I have been watching Mac's ABs (not yesterday I had the game on radio - at work). He has been hitting the ball very squarely but right at people since coming off of the DL. He was crushing it in Pawtucket right before he was called up, 10 H in 39 PAs and 1.112 OPS  (the same place where Reddick's .234 BA doesn't seem to faze anyone). Navarro once he is back on track from the DL is more likely to get a call up than Sutton is to stick with the RS. He can play the corners in OF and all 4 IF spots. He actually has been hitting much better this year than Reddick if you treasure BA as part of OBP, way better. He is a right handed bat too. Mac may well get cut because it will leave a welt in the RS pride to DFA Cameron but with over twice as many PAs and his age it is more likely he is toast. But nobody with 30 bad PAs is released or sent the minors or Dustin Pedroia would be down there right now.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]


    it is pretty amazing that no one cares that Reddick has never consistently hit in the minors but think that because he has a good 20 at bats with the Red Sox that he is a savior.  
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]Pedey has struggled vs RHPs for a couple years. This year he has turned it around in that area. I agree, JD may be beyond hope  for a hot streak, but to me, he has still done better in 2011 (when factoring in defense) than Cam, DMac, and Crawford. Now, Reddick is another story. I've never been a big JD fan and have always said he was overpaid, but I have defended him at times against those who have bashed him for low RBI totals and those discounting OBP value.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac : Good points, but there was a reason why DMac labored in the minor leagues for so many years. His sample size is small, but have you seen his at bats? Not productive at all. There have been way too many occasions when they had a rally going and the pitcher was showing signs of wildness and DMac would either swing at the first pitch or K. Any other batter with an average and minimum 30 at bats is either released or in the minor leagues. He doesn't belong period. I would guess that once Crawford comes back, that DMac with be DFA'd. They will probably get an OF in the next 3-4 weeks, or when Lowrie comes back, keep Sutton up, who again is an AAAA player.
    Posted by ADG[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]I think if neither one of these guys can pick it up with the stick, the Sox will be looking for a RH bat before the deadline next month.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]
    Theo cannot wait until trade deadline to make a roster move in the outfield..DMac's numbers are embarrassing to say the least..We need a much more productive right handed bat in the outfield..Does anyone know if Nava is still in Pawtucket?
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac : it is pretty amazing that no one cares that Reddick has never consistently hit in the minors but think that because he has a good 20 at bats with the Red Sox that he is a savior.  
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    I don't know about "savior", but I felt two years ago that Reddick was gonna replace Drew. He was raw but had the tools. The big question was his plate discipline. He's an aggressive hitter who has applied his tools for being a more patient one.

    I think he's the type of player who needs a challenge - and it brings out the best in him. He's not one to leave in AAA at this point. He looks ready now and a AAA demotion won't do him or the team any favors.

    He can run, hit, has a good glove that will get better and has a good arm well suited for RF. His time is now. He fills a need. Nothing to lose by giving him the chance. Much to gain.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    DMac's numbers are embarrassing to say the least...

    Dude, it's embarrassing to judge someone on just 40 PAs.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]Pedey has struggled vs RHPs for a couple years. This year he has turned it around in that area. I agree, JD may be beyond hope  for a hot streak, but to me, he has still done better in 2011 (when factoring in defense) than Cam, DMac, and Crawford. Now, Reddick is another story. I've never been a big JD fan and have always said he was overpaid, but I have defended him at times against those who have bashed him for low RBI totals and those discounting OBP value.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    JD has had some great moments as a Red Sox..That grand slam in the '07 playoffs vs. Cleveland was big time clutch..JD's play has not been nearly as bad as the 2 righthanded guys, Cameron & D Mac.Cameron should retire & D Mac had his moment last year. No room for these guys...Neither would be on the Yankees roster. Theo needs to make some roster moves now.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac : Actually I have been watching Mac's ABs (not yesterday I had the game on radio - at work). He has been hitting the ball very squarely but right at people since coming off of the DL. He was crushing it in Pawtucket right before he was called up, 10 H in 39 PAs and 1.112 OPS  (the same place where Reddick's .234 BA doesn't seem to faze anyone). Navarro once he is back on track from the DL is more likely to get a call up than Sutton is to stick with the RS. He can play the corners in OF and all 4 IF spots. He actually has been hitting much better this year than Reddick if you treasure BA as part of OBP, way better. He is a right handed bat too. Mac may well get cut because it will leave a welt in the RS pride to DFA Cameron but with over twice as many PAs and his age it is more likely he is toast. But nobody with 30 bad PAs is released or sent the minors or Dustin Pedroia would be down there right now.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]
    Please don't compare Pedroia with either of those guys..Are you kidding me? Pede is the heart & soul of this team. Cameron & D Mac are lucky to still be on this roster..They would be gone if they were in NY..
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]DMac's numbers are embarrassing to say the least... Dude, it's embarrassing to judge someone on just 40 PAs.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    How many PA's can Tito afford to give D Mac..This is a contending ball club. Anyone with a BA that low does not belong on the big league roster. Either Cameron or D Mac has to go immediately..Give the young guys an opportunity. They cannot do any worst
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac : I don't know about "savior", but I felt two years ago that Reddick was gonna replace Drew. He was raw but had the tools. The big question was his plate discipline. He's an aggressive hitter who has applied his tools for being a more patient one. I think he's the type of player who needs a challenge - and it brings out the best in him. He's not one to leave in AAA at this point. He looks ready now and a AAA demotion won't do him or the team any favors. He can run, hit, has a good glove that will get better and has a good arm well suited for RF. His time is now. He fills a need. Nothing to lose by giving him the chance. Much to gain.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    You mean he looks ready now from the at bats you have seen for the Red Sox.  Because he is hitting 230 at Pawtucket.

    With that said there is no doubt he looks like he can play MLB.  But if you look at his stats in the minors over his career there is no reason to think he would hit over 250 over a season.

     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    If you look at his numbers at the lower levels, his skill-set and aggressive nature worked in his favor, both in BA and power.

    Better competition exposed holes in his game. He's been working on condensing his strikezone. His HR numbers with Pawtucket were impressive: 14 dingers in 191 AB.

    I'm going by the progress he has made with plate discipline. He walked only 23 times in 451 AB last year. This year, he's walked 33 times in 191 AB. Huge difference. His .230 BA doesn't reflect this. He far more selective now. This guy has a chance to be a complete player. He needs ML experience at this point.

     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    Nice points harness, and he is a very good fielder.
     
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    Re: Outfield Depth and Mike Cameron/DMac

    Yes, he has strong instincts. I hope they stick with him because his development at the ML level will be interesting to watch.
     

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