Ozzie apologizes for what???

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    Miami Herald sportswirter Dan LeBatard, a Cuban-American, calls Castro "our Hitler."

    http://www.examiner.com/republican-in-orlando/miami-herald-sports-writer-dan-lebatard-comments-on-guillen-s-faux-pas-video
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pass-the-hubris-please. Show Pass-the-hubris-please's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    In response to "Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???": [QUOTE]Americans debating Castro is an amusing thing.  Almost as amusing as South/Central Americans debating the USA.  Here are some things to consider, all of which I believe to be true: - Castro is/was better than his predecessor - Castro has done truly bad things - Castro's crimes are minor compared to many others the US has openly supported - Those who left Cuba have valid reasons for hating Castro - Cuba would be better off if both the Castro brothers and their octagenarian cohort simply disappeared. - The US embargo of Cuba is a disgrace - US opposition to Castro is the main reason for his larger than life reputation ... both to his followers and those who hate him. - US opposition to Castro is the #1 reason communism remains in Cuba - Communism is a joke ... so is Ozzie Guillen Posted by 111SoxFan111[/QUOTE] +1. Nice post.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

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    In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]It says something about a country when people are dying to leave, and they are forbidden to go. Castro is hated for a reason.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]you nailed it! also, the OP is naive and is coming from an ivory tower idealistic position. the fact is we are all mostly EMOTIONAL despite all the objective moralistic nonsense we may spout.
    the further removed and away from us something is, the easier it is for us to be "principled", flippant and LOGICAL about it. the closer it is, the less so!
     the bottom line is that ozzie is a manager in MIAMI, the home of the greatest anti-castro population in the planet. common sensicallly, it means the marlins first of all should have done better homework (had similar comments about the dictator of his homeland mr. CHAVEZ) in vetting him and not employ someone at that level not on the same page regarding CASTRO or atleast not one passionate for him. just common sense here. if you jave to share your views in a mag, u go with the anti-castro one or shut up.

    i happen to be black and lean towards the left-wing on most social issues (but right on economic ones). if i were hired to lead any organization in a tea party dominant community, i would either talk up my economic premises or simply refrain from any public social comments unless they were generically non-threatening to all sides. Social issues get into people's core areas. as a manager, there's nothing to be gained in antagonizing that area.

    can you imagine being a manager in israel or brooklyn and saying how efficient and meticulous hitler was and how admirable it was that he was able to rise to power and put himself in position to do such acts in the first place? same with someone coaching in atlanta who slams martin luther king and says he's overrated and there shouldnt be a holiday on his behalf? yep you have thr right to say what you want, but others have the right to react as they want too and not put themselves in the position to ever hear your rants again! thats the part many choose to ignore. because you have a right doesnt mean you can exercise it without a filter without non-governmental consequences. it just means that no prosecutor can jail, arrest or persecute you for it. private citizens can react in any non-violent way they damnnn well choose to! you can yap, they can react!

    btw comrades,that's y i'm a COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. i hate communism, i'm the OPPOSITE of it!
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    We'll never be free until the last communist is strangled with the entrails of the last atheist
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    No answers.

    Guillen has the right to speak his mind.

    The Marlins have the right to protect their financial interests.

    This is America.  Personal opinions are for the bar and your house, and mostly the bar.  Every time you open your mouth, you have to consider which of the 1,000 special interest groups will think the world is coming to an end every time you say something about them.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]No answers. Guillen has the right to speak his mind. The Marlins have the right to protect their financial interests. This is America.  Personal opinions are for the bar and your house, and mostly the bar.  Every time you open your mouth, you have to consider which of the 1,000 special interest groups will think the world is coming to an end every time you say something about them.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    SPOT ON,Joe
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    Ozzie really stepped in it this time. 

    The one person you never bring up in Miami is Fidel Castro.  And you certainly don't praise the guy - even though he was much better for the country than Battista.  Why a really bad Communist dictator is so much worse than a really, really bad run of the mill dictator is beyond me.  At least he didn't rob the country blind like some US backed dictators have done. 

    Way back in the early 60s, The Congo was about to elect a person that was rumored to be a Communist or at least a Socialist.  The Congo has a wealth of natural resources - still does.  The CIA killed the young leader and promoted Mobuto.  Mobuto solidified his position by taking the money he was given by the CIA to pay off important military officers. 

    When he took power, he gave western companies access to the natural resources for a song although he personally profited.  The country was very poor, even though it had a wealth of natural resources, and received food aid.  Mobuto used to take the food aid and sell it abroad, pocketing the money.

    Yet some how a ruthless dictator like Mobuto that drove his country in the ground was worthy of US aid but Castro who seemed to be legitimately about the people, is evil.

    And just across the water lies Haiti, the crown jewel of the Carribean.  While we slap a trade embargo on Cuba, the people of Haiti stand out like a beacon of what the Cubans could have if they'd only unshackle themselves from Communism.

    I don't believe in Communism, but if I were a peasant, I'd much rather live in Cuba under Castro than Haiti under Papa Doc or Baby Doc.

    Oh, and Castro played minor league ball so it's appropriate to discuss him in the sports section. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    I hear there's a Country Club in Cuba where they won't let women be members.  Those freaking barbarians
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    In Response to Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]I guess it's not safe for a manager to speak highly of Fidel in the rabidly right-wing politcal climate of anti-castro Cuban Miami....Have there been human rights abuses in Cuba durning his tenure.  Of course.  But people forget that US policymakers had been trying to assasinate, overthrow and otherwise terminate this man for decades...People also forget that Cuba was a mob-run sewer under Batista where poverty, prostitution and malnutrition were rampant....Because of Castro, the US failed to keep Cuba safe for the American mafia, and many paid the price....I give Guillen credit for leaving his team to return to Miami and "apologizing" so the political firestorm can be put out...But the repressive censorship at work here is sad...Never dare challenge the dominant culture where Castro is demonized for lifting his people out of an economic abyss, and surviving despite a crippling US embargo for years....      A manager should be able to at least express a political opinion without being vilified and threatened with the loss of his job....It is a shame Ozzie has to lower himself to the level of bowing to the right-wing in Miami, but that is where we are today in the land of the free....
    Posted by teilhardian[/QUOTE]

    Wow!  Impossible to argue with this sound socio-political analysis!  You clearly have your finger on the pulse of the "progressive" movement.

    Let me get this straight????  It's all the U.S.'s fault?  You love revolution, so long as it's radical fundamentalist extremist Muslim  U.S. hating "freedom fighters," taking over, but to hell with them if they are so brutally repressed that protest is beyond being an option.... as in Cuba! If they were Jew hating, woman hating, gay hating radicalized Muslims, would you get behind the CUBAN PEOPLE, possibly see fit to criticize Castro, instead of bashing the U.S., who's policy started under Kennedy????

    What a contortionist!!!!  You guys will do & say anything, so long as you can frame the issue as a "Right Wing Extremist" domestic problem. 

    NICE!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    Exactly correct Joe. Some opinions are simply better left unspoken, especially if you are in a position that requires a certain degree of political skill. Imagine a person with religious convictions against homosexuality. Now I'm a huge fan of boys+girls getting together, but I really could care less who anyone sleeps with-as long as it doesn't involve me. But let's say a person feels a strong compunction to publicly oppose homosexuality. They would certainly have a right to their opinion, (yes-even in an age of political correctness they have that right), but would it be wise of them to run for Mayor of San Fransisco? Perhaps not. The 2 special interest groups (gays in San Fransisco and anti Castro/Communist elements in Miami) are almost equally powerful constituencies. Ozzie has nobody to blame but himself, and his apparent alcoholism. It's amazing to me that what's completely lost in this firestorm he's presently embroiled in, is his admission that he "gets drunk after every game" and has been doing so "for my whole career". What employer would want an employee who gets hammered 6 outta 7 days per week? It explains alot about the problems he's had, and is just one more reason for him to be terminated poste haste. They have some great things going on in Miami nowadays. They literally can't afford to wait to see if this dies down, because it won't. It will be a distraction that will fester and grow over time, and will prove harmful to the organization in countless ways. It's loss cutting time...




    In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]No answers. Guillen has the right to speak his mind. The Marlins have the right to protect their financial interests. This is America.  Personal opinions are for the bar and your house, and mostly the bar.  Every time you open your mouth, you have to consider which of the 1,000 special interest groups will think the world is coming to an end every time you say something about them.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    Time to watch something other than MSNBC????   Ya think??  :)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from teilhardian. Show teilhardian's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    "History is written by the victors."
        - Winston Churchill

    "The victor will always be the judge, and the vanquished always the accused."
       - Herman Goering

    "He who controls the present, controls the past.  He who controls the past, controls the future."
       - George Orwell in 1984


    Of course the Marlins have the right to protect their financial interests and it was poor judgment on Ozzie's part (nothing new there) to repeat sentiments he had shared with Rick Telander of Men's Journal back in 2008.  Then he was manager of the Chisox, and those comments were not as controversial as they are when made by the manager of Miami, where there is a large and vocal anti-Castro Cuban population...But my larger point was about the simplistic facility with which so many accept the dominant view that Castro is an evil dictator, and that there is no possible alternative or more complex view about his historical legacy...Just as Cuban society teaches the pro-Castro version of history in its schools, so here it is the complete opposite in our culture. And certainly in our schools there is no real room for the view that the US had a major role in the suffering of Cuba historically, or Haiti, or any other Third World country wracked by poverty, malnutrition and disease...It is easy to demonize Castro as we busily look the other way regarding all the "good" right-wing dictators on the US payroll who service large US corporations while their people live in abject depredation and misery, or are subject to automated death from the sky by drones and bomber jets...We never consider that murder, I hear...
         This is a baseball forum, and not a political one, and so this will be my last post for now on the Ozzie-Castro controversy...I was obviously not looking to win a popularity contest by saying what I have said...But how Selig and much of the media have handled this continues to sicken me, and I completely stand by the content of my original post....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]"History is written by the victors."     - Winston Churchill "The victor will always be the judge, and the vanquished always the accused."    - Herman Goering "He who controls the present, controls the past.  He who controls the past, controls the future."    - George Orwell in 1984 Of course the Marlins have the right to protect their financial interests and it was poor judgment on Ozzie's part (nothing new there) to repeat sentiments he had shared with Rick Telander of Men's Journal back in 2008.  Then he was manager of the Chisox, and those comments were not as controversial as they are when made by the manager of Miami, where there is a large and vocal anti-Castro Cuban population...But my larger point was about the simplistic facility with which so many accept the dominant view that Castro is an evil dictator, and that there is no possible alternative or complex view about his historical legacy...Just as Cuban society teaches the pro-Castro version of history in its schools, so here it is the complete opposite in our culture. And certainly in our schools there is no real room for the view that the US had a major role in the suffering of Cuba historically, or Haiti, or any other Third World country wracked by poverty, malnutrition and disease...It is easy to demonize Castro as we busily look the other way regarding all the "good" right-wing dictators on the US payroll who service large US corporations while their people live in abject depredation and misery, or are subject to automated death from the sky by drones and bomber jets...We never consider that murder, I hear...      This is a baseball forum, and not a political one, and so this will be my last post for now on the Ozzie-Castro controversy...I was obviously not looking to win a popularity contest by saying what I have said...But how Selig and much of the media have handled this continues to sicken me, and I completely stand by the content of my original post....
    Posted by teilhardian[/QUOTE]

    You certainly sound like you are fresh out of your first FAR LEFT WING Sociology class at that Facist Right Wing Institution of higher learning. Thank God you were smart enough to see through all that Right Wing Propaganda they are teaching kids these days :)

    BTW.....  What have your socialist buddies in the rich Western European countries, who are so much more sensitive to the rights of third world nations, been doing for all these oppressed countries????  That's probably the fault of the EVIL EMPIRE (The U.S.) also???   Big boy time!  Get a grip!  Glad you are so capable of simplifying things for us though!   :)
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]The US was playing both sides against the middle when Bautista was overthrown by Castro. Casto had good intentions, he hated the corruption and wanted Cubans to be free.......we see how that turned out. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely! Obama has good intentions too.
    Posted by Alibiike[/QUOTE]

    wow Alibiike.  I actually agree with this?????   Perhaps because it's acutally based on FACTS!

    Nice job!  Feels a bit weird saying this to you, but ........  good job!

    Ideology does not equal FACT!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what??? : In the communist paradise that is Castro's Cuba , the government can and will punish you for speaking your mind. The pseudo intellectual socialists in this country just will not face the reality of it.  Bottom line : People will risk their lives to come to this country, legally or illegally. We are all free to leave , but virtually no one wants to leave, despite all the complaining.  With Castro's Cuba , people will risk their lives to flee the country for a better life. The Cuban government does all it can to force them to stay. Virtually no one from the U.S.A. wants to move to Cuba.  That is the difference between a free country and a dictatorship.  Any fair minded person with common sense knows this. There is no sense arguing with the far left eggheads.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Nice try dgalehouse, but as the OP so eloquently pointed out, IT'S ALL THE FAULT
    OF THE EVIL U.S., and our EVIL & ALWAYS exploitative foreign policy!

    Thank God the RIGHT WING dick tators in the middle east are being overthrown by the loving, equal rights oriented, Muslim Fundamentalists!  Happy days are here again!!!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]We'll never be free until the last communist is strangled with the entrails of the last atheist
    Posted by Schumpeters-Ghost[/QUOTE]

    Nice.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]"History is written by the victors."     - Winston Churchill "The victor will always be the judge, and the vanquished always the accused."    - Herman Goering "He who controls the present, controls the past.  He who controls the past, controls the future."    - George Orwell in 1984 Of course the Marlins have the right to protect their financial interests and it was poor judgment on Ozzie's part (nothing new there) to repeat sentiments he had shared with Rick Telander of Men's Journal back in 2008.  Then he was manager of the Chisox, and those comments were not as controversial as they are when made by the manager of Miami, where there is a large and vocal anti-Castro Cuban population...But my larger point was about the simplistic facility with which so many accept the dominant view that Castro is an evil dictator, and that there is no possible alternative or more complex view about his historical legacy...Just as Cuban society teaches the pro-Castro version of history in its schools, so here it is the complete opposite in our culture. And certainly in our schools there is no real room for the view that the US had a major role in the suffering of Cuba historically, or Haiti, or any other Third World country wracked by poverty, malnutrition and disease...It is easy to demonize Castro as we busily look the other way regarding all the "good" right-wing dictators on the US payroll who service large US corporations while their people live in abject depredation and misery, or are subject to automated death from the sky by drones and bomber jets...We never consider that murder, I hear...      This is a baseball forum, and not a political one, and so this will be my last post for now on the Ozzie-Castro controversy...I was obviously not looking to win a popularity contest by saying what I have said...But how Selig and much of the media have handled this continues to sicken me, and I completely stand by the content of my original post....
    Posted by teilhardian[/QUOTE]

    Previous to this , I thought you were a pretty decent poster, if somewhat pompous and egotistical. But now I think you are being disingenuos. As a Yankee fan , you come to a Sox forum and start a thread on this topic. It could only be that you are looking to stir up controversy while pushing your political beliefs. When I voiced my opinion about a particularly offensive signature of another poster, his reply was that it was meant to be offensive.  Apparently it was not offensive to you, though.  Why not ?  Then another poster sarcastically asks me if I am " entrails ." When I reply by asking him if he is an idiot , communist or dirtbag , you jump in with a sarcastic reply to me , while ignoring his provocation to me. Now , you remind us that this is a baseball forum , and state that you are not here to win a popularity contest. I have to ask : Exactly why are you here? I can only conclude that you are here to annoy people with your boasting about your intellectual prowess, and to promote your particular political agenda. As for me , I am conservative politically , and I have no respect  or admiration for murderous dictators of any political stripe.   And I don't have much use for those who do.   Have a nice day.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ozzie apologizes for what??? : " First of all no one that gassed their own people" there it is on cue. i imagine you can read what i wrote. trot out the govt propaganda on cue i have spent over 2 decades finding out the truth about foreign and domestic happenings. you are repeating govt propaganda and are not even aware of it. youve got a lot of work to do to begin to find any "truth"about any of this. discussion here will be completely pointless adn like talking to a wall. ive given you the impetus. if you care about truth, you can begin the very long journey to that. good luck and peace
    Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE]


    Ahh a truther well that tells me about how far this conversation can really go.

    Still waiting for obamas birth certificate arnt you.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    Castro's crimes are minor compared to many others the US has openly supported

    I didn't know that murdering your own people was minor. Please provide specific details on the US crimes that makes Castro's crime petty crimes.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???



    Over the years there were boatloads of Cubans headed for the Keys... I am sure they risked their lives because Castros crimes were "minor". I am also sure on their boats/rafts they did not pass thousands of Americans on their boats/rafts headed for a better life in Havana.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    Burrito - I think you misread my comments.  They basically boil down to this.  You can't just ask is he a good guy or a bad guy, that only works in comic books.  Would I want to live in Cuba ... no.  Do I think Castro is a "good" leader ... no.  But the truth is his predecessor was at least as much of a SOB and probably worse.  When I say his crimes were "minor" compared to others, I am speaking of other third world despots the US has supported during the same time frame.  Need examples?  Saddam, Mubarak, Noriega .... the list is very, very long.  It's not long because the US is evil.  We have to choose allies and ther world is filled with terrible people leading poor countries.

    FDR said this about one third world dictator: "he's a son of a b**tch but he's our son of a b**tch."  I think it was Samoza in Nicaragua.  Geopolitics is a dirty game if one is pragmatic ... which you have to be.  That's fine but let's not fool ourselves about the reality that the developing world is filled with nasty despots who hurt their people and line their own pockets.  Castro may be an SOB but he isn't as much of an SOB as some others ... he just isn't OUR SOB.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    The USA for better or worse balances out its ill's by doing a lot of good. Would I change my countries history and future if I could - you bet I would. However a killer/murderer is just that. 

    Rather than use the USA as a tool for your opinion why not use China or Russia? How about Cambodia, or Hungary in 1956? 

    The USA is not perfect and they get away with a lot, but massing people in graves (see Iraq or Russia or China or North Korea or numerous other countries) is not something we do. Aiding butchers sometimes? Yes. But are we the butcher?

    Grab a raft and head for China. Or actually just buy a plane ticket as now the USA is kissing its demonic enemies behinds for the sake of profits it is quite easy to travel.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from marstan. Show marstan's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    OZZIE SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY WHAT HE WANTS.
    AFTER ALL.....AREN'T WE ENTITLED TO FREE SPEECH.
    THAT HAVING BEEN SAID....HE ISN'T THE BRIGHTEST
    LIGHT BULB IN THE ROOM WHEN HE PRAISES CASTRO
    AFTER BEING HIRED IN MIAMI. DUHHHH !!!!
    BUT THEN AGAIN HE ISN'T GOING TO BE MISTAKEN
    FOR A MENSA CANDIDATE. WHAT HE DID IS LIKE
    PRAISING STALIN AND MARX AT A ROMNEY CAMPAIGN
    EVENT.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Ozzie apologizes for what???

    It seems to me that the suggestion Batista was worse than Castro is going completely unrefuted here.Whether one is a fan of crony capitalism and its' attendant corruption ; OR despotic communism and its' endemic totalitarianism is really immaterial.
    Which leader murdered, tortured and imprisoned more of his own people ?
    The answer is easily verifiable : Fidel Castro.

    Batista was obviously no saint, and under communism Cuba increased literacy and health care access.....TO THOSE NOT MURDERED, TORTURED AND IMPRISONED.

    Go to Cuba, see the actual conditions. Read actual historical records, then form opinions.
     

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