PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ImagydSportsBos. Show ImagydSportsBos's posts

    PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    like with the celtics, its always amazing to me y many like to break up success and greatness in the "hopes" of getting better somehow esp when injuries and fate play a bigger role than pure talent or coaching or stats of right now. about the grind of attrition. how has the revolving greedy door at SS worked out? how did closa by committee work out? to me, you get a guy in there who proves he can handle the toughest position in the toughest home market in the nation , u give him extra points for that. guy was the second best when he was here (after mariano). plus he stopped getting hurt and took pride in being available. one blown save can entirely ruin a team's psyche and confidence, y risk it? 4 years a t 113m was a STEAL. even for philly if going nowhere, still worth having a guy like him to run out there for the few victories you do want. not everyone can close in boston or philly or NY.. period!

    all that said, i like our guys in taz and koji and even bailey when healthy. but compared to pap, all 3 of those guys are shaky in terms of availability and ultimate big game performance. 1-0 game, ga,e 7 of the ALCS, you want tazawa out there over a pap? come on!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from chickenandboose. Show chickenandboose's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Rivera is better...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to ImagydSportsBos' comment:

    like with the celtics, its always amazing to me y many like to break up success and greatness in the "hopes" of getting better somehow esp when injuries and fate play a bigger role than pure talent or coaching or stats of right now. about the grind of attrition. how has the revolving greedy door at SS worked out? how did closa by committee work out? to me, you get a guy in there who proves he can handle the toughest position in the toughest home market in the nation , u give him extra points for that. guy was the second best when he was here (after mariano). plus he stopped getting hurt and took pride in being available. one blown save can entirely ruin a team's psyche and confidence, y risk it? 4 years a t 113m was a STEAL. even for philly if going nowhere, still worth having a guy like him to run out there for the few victories you do want. not everyone can close in boston or philly or NY.. period!

    all that said, i like our guys in taz and koji and even bailey when healthy. but compared to pap, all 3 of those guys are shaky in terms of availability and ultimate big game performance. 1-0 game, ga,e 7 of the ALCS, you want tazawa out there over a pap? come on!



    Papelbon is among the best but let's not forget it was his choice to leave. I wish him well and hope he stays healthy for the remainder of his career. You seem to have a very short memory with Papelbon who was on the mound for the last two most significant games the sox have played and in both cases blew a 2 run lead..Angels in 2009 and the Orioles in 2010...He lives and dies with the fastball. My advice is let's check back on October 1st before we get to far ahead of ourselves...

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    We play 162 games before the five finalists are determined in each league. Chances are Philly is not going to be a finalist unless they get some more pitching or Wash and Atlanta fold. My guess Pap watches the playoffs from afar. I like him as a person and he's a good player--I like the closers from Atlanta, Wash, San Fran and Cinci. I like" M the Great" and I think before it's over it may be "Closer by Committee" for the Sox. I trust in JF to figure it out. Don't be surprised if it's Dempster closing before the season ends.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Paps has not tailed off at all as many predicted (myself included)  but a great closer is not as valuable as a good starter and i would have rather seen the money spent that way

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to georom4's comment:

    Paps has not tailed off at all as many predicted (myself included)  but a great closer is not as valuable as a good starter and i would have rather seen the money spent that way



    I don't think people expected him to tail off 1.25 years into a 4+1 contract.  The biggest issue is that most of the posters assessing FAs look at his first year and say 'we should've signed him'.  Most contracts are good in the early portion.

    Paps did very well in 2011, so I would expect him to do well in 2012.  But just like Teixeira, Gonzo, ARod, Ryan Howard, Carlos Lee, Helton, etc., the damage is almost always done in the latter half of the contract.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Personally I think Papelbon is one guy who has a good chance of holding up over the full length of his contract.  I think he takes good care of himself and he's motivated by a dream of being one of the great closers in history.  He'll never be #1, but he has a good shot at #2.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sundvl20. Show sundvl20's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    I kind of see this as a lot like the Clemens exit. 2 big boys with a lot of talent, lot of ego and in case of 1 a lot of drugs. Maybe they got a little complacent and letting them walk angered and motivated them

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Koji and Taz have been lights out. 3 wins in a row. Bailey back monday. Leave the past in the past.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to georom4's comment:

    Paps has not tailed off at all as many predicted (myself included)  but a great closer is not as valuable as a good starter and i would have rather seen the money spent that way



    That's a good point geo.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to sundvl20's comment:

    I kind of see this as a lot like the Clemens exit. 2 big boys with a lot of talent, lot of ego and in case of 1 a lot of drugs. Maybe they got a little complacent and letting them walk angered and motivated them



    I was so p*ssed when Clemens went to Toronto.  I got even more p*ssed when he got traded to the Yankees.   LOL

    In 2004, I wish the Red Sox had faced Clemens (and Pettitte) and the Astros in the World Series.  That would have been epic.  

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to Ice-Cream's comment:


    I was so p*ssed when Clemens went to Toronto.  I got even more p*ssed when he got traded to the Yankees.   LOL

    In 2004, I wish the Red Sox had faced Clemens (and Pettitte) and the Astros in the World Series.  That would have been epic.   



    True, but it was also nice seeing Rogah come up small in game 7 against the Cards. Laughing

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Papelbon may be doing great..and I wish him well..but lets not forget it was his choice to leave. The Sox could have offered him more in my opinion..but what they offered him was fair. Plus..I think he wanted to move on. Part of me thinks that no matter what the Sox did to keep him...it would not have been enough. He didn't seem happy here his last year.

    I always thought he was a bit of a head case..but his talent made up for it somewhat. I wasn't crying any tears when he left.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Glad we no longer have him, didn't like his personality, too me-centered.  And, in his last two important appearances, he blew the game that would have got us in the playoffs and he blew a game to get us out of the playoffs.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Plus we got Brian Johnson and Pat Light for letting him walk in what has become the last time a relief pitcher was worth draft pick compensation...

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to Mellow60s' comment:

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

     

    Glad we no longer have him, didn't like his personality, too me-centered.  And, in his last two important appearances, he blew the game that would have got us in the playoffs and he blew a game to get us out of the playoffs.

     



    I could care less if a player is a head case or whether I personally like the player or not. If the man comes to play, is always ready to go, and doesn't make excuses I want him on my team. Paps has probably the best behind Mariano Rivera since coming into the league. Sure he's blown a few saves, but no player wins every game, gets a hit in every important at bat, etc. 

     

    Mellow



    EXactly.

     

    It's not like I was going to hangaround with the guy.  I'm sure if I met every MLB player, I would not like a very large number of them.

     

    A guy who brings down the team with his personality is one thing, but I would be very surpised if egos were not running amok in MLB...

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    When you look at closers Valverde comes to mind. He has not tailed off and he is I believe 4 yrs older than  Paps and is not in the same condition as Paps. Paps does take care of himself the only thing that will stop him from being a great closer until he is 40 is an injury to his arm/shoulder.

    Closers generally only go 80 innings a year which bodes well for those who succeed.

    I wish he had never left. IMHO it was a mistake that Theo made not matching Philly's offer. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Okay, let's say off-putting personality and selfishness don't matter in the outcome of games ( and that it's simply a matter of taste and asethetics.  I could never root for a Clemens a Pete Rose a Ty Cobb a Paplebon to do well for who they are, the way I could for a Pedroia or a Jeter, say, who, while no doubt egocentric as who isn't, obviously play from a love of something larger than themselves, the game itself).  Paps statistically will go down as one of the great all-time closers no doubt, but the truth of the matter was: he had become a choker in the really big game situations.  Beyond that, glad he left the team for some of the same karmic and aesthetic reasons I was glad when Clemens left.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    Okay, let's say off-putting personality and selfishness don't matter in the outcome of games ( and that it's simply a matter of taste and asethetics.  I could never root for a Clemens a Pete Rose a Ty Cobb a Paplebon to do well for who they are, the way I could for a Pedroia or a Jeter, say, who, while no doubt egocentric as who isn't, obviously play from a love of something larger than themselves, the game itself).  Paps statistically will go down as one of the great all-time closers no doubt, but the truth of the matter was: he had become a choker in the really big game situations.  Beyond that, glad he left the team for some of the same karmic and aesthetic reasons I was glad when Clemens left.




    Interesting that you chose Jeter.

     

    Comedian and lifelong Yankee fan Jim Norton renounced his Yankee fandom after a meeting with Jeter.

     

    Granted, Norton himself does not appear to be much of a choir boy.

     

    When did Papelbon choke away a big game?  Game 3 in 2008 against the Angels? When the Sox were down 2 games to 0?   Marinao Rivera lost the only WS Game 7 he pitched in despite having a 2-run lead with 3 outs to go.  Yet know one labels him a choke artist.  In fact, he is considered the epitome of handling pressure in a relief role...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to notin's comment:

     

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

     

    Okay, let's say off-putting personality and selfishness don't matter in the outcome of games ( and that it's simply a matter of taste and asethetics.  I could never root for a Clemens a Pete Rose a Ty Cobb a Paplebon to do well for who they are, the way I could for a Pedroia or a Jeter, say, who, while no doubt egocentric as who isn't, obviously play from a love of something larger than themselves, the game itself).  Paps statistically will go down as one of the great all-time closers no doubt, but the truth of the matter was: he had become a choker in the really big game situations.  Beyond that, glad he left the team for some of the same karmic and aesthetic reasons I was glad when Clemens left.

     




    Interesting that you chose Jeter.

     

     

    Comedian and lifelong Yankee fan Jim Norton renounced his Yankee fandom after a meeting with Jeter.

     

    Granted, Norton himself does not appear to be much of a choir boy.

     

    When did Papelbon choke away a big game?  Game 3 in 2008 against the Angels? When the Sox were down 2 games to 0?   Marinao Rivera lost the only WS Game 7 he pitched in despite having a 2-run lead with 3 outs to go.  Yet know one labels him a choke artist.  In fact, he is considered the epitome of handling pressure in a relief role...

     




    Maybe Norton didn't get the kind of attention from Jeter he wanted or needed, who knows?  I guess Jeter just popped into my head as a star player who doesn't seem wholly consumed with himself on the baseball field.  Ripkin may have popped into my head instead, or Greg Maddox, or countless others.

     

    Yeah, you're right, Paps blew the Angels game, the next game was also to be in Boston as I recall, a five game series, a real momentum swing was in the works, and that was in 2009.  Then his next post-season determining outing was against the Orioles at the end of 2011, which he also blew.  So those were his last big-game very important outings with the Sox, and he blew them both.  Had it been Rivera who blew those games, it would be easier to forgive because he's Rivera not Paplebon.  Which is the point, and it's not about logic.  (Don't care much for Paps, obviously, but don't consider him nearly as offensive or obnoxious in this vein as Clemens Rose Cobb and others.)

     

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