Papelbon worth every cent

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Papelbon worth every cent

    Possibly more, but too early to tell.

    -8 for 8 in saves
    -0.90 ERA
    -0.90 WHIP
    -6 hits, 3 BBs, 10 Ks in 10-1/3

    And before people go the "But Phillies are below .500" route, understand they've been without BOTH Utley and Howard, and will get both back at some point.

    Aside from very early on, Pap has had no injury concerns, and has been an elite close for many years. They are rare. The Sox grew one, and let him walk. At 31, I doubt I'll ever see the farm produce another closer of his level.

    Of course Hindsight is 20/20, but how can the Sox have been so wrong, on so many FA decisions; both who comes AND who goes?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dublin_Sox. Show Dublin_Sox's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In response to "Papelbon worth every cent": [QUOTE]Possibly more, but too early to tell. -8 for 8 in saves -0.90 ERA -0.90 WHIP -6 hits, 3 BBs, 10 Ks in 10-1/3 And before people go the "But Phillies are below .500" route, understand they've been without BOTH Utley and Howard, and will get both back at some point. Aside from very early on, Pap has had no injury concerns, and has been an elite close for many years. They are rare. The Sox grew one, and let him walk. At 31, I doubt I'll ever see the farm produce another closer of his level. Of course Hindsight is 20/20, but how can the Sox have been so wrong, on so many FA decisions; both who comes AND who goes? Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE] I was disgusted when they let him go. He was proven. All the talk of Bard as closer was premature. As for this guy we got who's made of glass and never closed a big game, I don't think so. I know who I'd rather see with the bases loaded in the ninth and a 3-2 count against the Yankees!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    I agree.   The problem is the Red Sox mindset on the closing position.  The Sox feel anyone can close and still do.  Remember the closer by committee.  LMAO.  The other thing the Sox need to realize is everyone can't play in Boston.  When you have a guy who can handle Boston and has a proven track record in the AL east, you need to pay him and keep him on the team.  Forget free agents like Lackey, Crawford, etc.  They are not worth the money and never will be, I like the low cost guys like Ross, Aceves, etc...you can bring in a few and hit on one or two to go with your stars.  
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    After a bad start, Aceves has been fine at closing. Papelbons problem was the AL East getting used to him, so going to the NL was sure to help. Plus it's a little early to say anything definitive. Letting Papelbon go made it easier to keep Ortiz, and he ain't been too bad either.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]I agree.   The problem is the Red Sox mindset on the closing position.  The Sox feel anyone can close and still do.  Remember the closer by committee.  LMAO.  The other thing the Sox need to realize is everyone can't play in Boston.  When you have a guy who can handle Boston and has a proven track record in the AL east, you need to pay him and keep him on the team.  Forget free agents like Lackey, Crawford, etc.  They are not worth the money and never will be, I like the low cost guys like Ross, Aceves, etc...you can bring in a few and hit on one or two to go with your stars.  
    Posted by Mchampion[/QUOTE]

    No doubt that the Sox should have kept Paps. He is gone and that is our loss. Nothing we can do about that now. Time to move on.  As far as Lackey & Crawford, we are doing just fine without them playing. Perhaps better than if they were. You are correct about the "low cost" guys. I prefer taking a chance with them and I also welcome bringing up some of the players in Triple A.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Papelbons first year in the NL, majority of batters haven't faced him before. lets see how he does once they become more familiar with him. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Before you get too excited about Papelbon's 8 saves,you might want to consider who they're against.
    1 save each vs the D'Backs,Mets Giants and Pirates
    2 saves each vs Cubs and Padres
    Not exactly the Rangers,Tigers and Yankees.We'll see a clearer picture after he faces some of the better competition in the NL like the Dodgers,Braves,St. Louis,etc...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    We aren't even sure the redsox had a chance to sign him.  If they did have a chance, I'm sure their decision was based more on what they thought they'd get in the last 2-3 years of the contract, not the first 8 games.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]We aren't even sure the redsox had a chance to sign him.  If they did have a chance, I'm sure their decision was based more on what they thought they'd get in the last 2-3 years of the contract, not the first 8 games.
    Posted by greenwellforpresident[/QUOTE]

    Bingo. And, yes, NL much easier for closer than AL East. Let's just wait until teams have seen him a few times. Acheves' stuff better than Paps. He will be fine once he settles into the mentality of the role.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SleeStack1. Show SleeStack1's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Papelbon was too much money.  Get over it.  The Sox can't pay everyone top dollar.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    I said it when they did not sign him.
    This will haunt the RS for at least 10 years.
    Because going to the NL will only make him better.
    The NL is not the AL or the ALE with the DH instead of the pitcher.

    That a closer is the most important pitcher on the team. That a closer gets paid for what he does not the innings he pitches. If he pitches only 40 innings and has 40 save he is worth every cent.

    He was for his career with the RS the second best IMHO closer in MLB. I believe when all is said and done he will be the second best ever behind Mariano.

    As for the saves that were pointed out...
    1 save each vs the D'Backs 9th in hitting, Mets Giants (2nd & 3rd in hitting) and Pirates 14th
    2 saves each vs Cubs 11th and Padres 16th
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    No closer, except Mo in his prime, is worth that long a deal at that kind of dough.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Why everyone is upset that Boston let him go?  He still got another 4 more years to go.  Who know year 2 or year 3, he may finally struggle!!

    Yes Boston need a closer, but with so many injured pitchers on the roster, it is hard to fix the pitching staffs.  Had they were all healthy at the same time half of them happen to struggle, then we can all b!t@h about all the mistakes that Boston made this year.

    For now, there is nothing we can do.  

    We should be happy that Boston are now winnng games!!


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]Possibly more, but too early to tell. -8 for 8 in saves -0.90 ERA -0.90 WHIP -6 hits, 3 BBs, 10 Ks in 10-1/3 And before people go the "But Phillies are below .500" route, understand they've been without BOTH Utley and Howard, and will get both back at some point. Aside from very early on, Pap has had no injury concerns, and has been an elite close for many years. They are rare. The Sox grew one, and let him walk. At 31, I doubt I'll ever see the farm produce another closer of his level. Of course Hindsight is 20/20, but how can the Sox have been so wrong, on so many FA decisions; both who comes AND who goes?
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    So you can judge the value of a 4 year contract after a month?  Impressive dude.  the point wasn't whether or not he was worth the money in April.  It was over four years.  ONe never knows if a long term contract was worth it right away.  You may be right but this conversation has to happen three years from now.  Not on May 1.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dskerr. Show dskerr's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Papelbon got $12.5M per year, which is EXACTLY the same money he made in his last year in Boston.  So it comes down to the number of years on the contract....does anyone really think the he isn't going to be effective when he is 35 yrs old, which will be the end of the contract?  I know the NL is weaker than the AL, but didn't he prove himself in his 6 years in Boston?  Next to that guy in NY, who else has been as consistant and as solid a closer as Paps?  Has he had his struggles here and there....yes, but he pitched well above average in BOSTON for 6 years, which we all keep saying is the hardest place to play in MLB.

    Bottom line is this....for whatever reason, this Sox ownership group does not value the closer position and I also don't think they ever thought highly of Paps, personally.  Maybe he rubbed them the wrong way in previous contract negotiations...maybe he was just to quirky for them.  Who knows, but at the end of the day, the biggest problem for this ownership group is that they don't spend their millions of dollars wisely, and it has caught up to them.  Lackey and Crawford are the most recent examples in a string of VERY BAD free agent decisions (both coming and going) and the "DEAD" money will impact this team for a long time to come....and, in my opinion, is a big reason why they didn't resign Paps.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]I said it when they did not sign him. This will haunt the RS for at least 10 years. Because going to the NL will only make him better. The NL is not the AL or the ALE with the DH instead of the pitcher. That a closer is the most important pitcher on the team. That a closer gets paid for what he does not the innings he pitches. If he pitches only 40 innings and has 40 save he is worth every cent. He was for his career with the RS the second best IMHO closer in MLB. I believe when all is said and done he will be the second best ever behind Mariano. As for the saves that were pointed out... 1 save each vs the D'Backs 9th in hitting, Mets Giants (2nd & 3rd in hitting) and Pirates 14th 2 saves each vs Cubs 11th and Padres 16th
    Posted by JimfromFlorida[/QUOTE]

    Jim, Remember one thing. The no-DH in the NL has a bigger effect on starters than relievers, especially closers. Closers don't face pitchers. 

    I don't agree with "this will haunt the Sox for 10 years." Papelbon was great, and I would have like to have him back. But for the money -- I can't say I'm too upset that the Sox didn't want to play that much for a closer. Papelbon will be worth every cent to the Phillies for this year, but in four year -- we'll see. I have my doubts.

    I think closers are important, but from year to year, I think you can find a good enough closer. Look at St. Louis last year.

    We'll see what happens.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Hi JimfromFlorida ..."haunt" the RS for ten years ??  Is Paplebon going to dominate the next ten years? Maybe three.  Let's not get too wound up.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Still I think Paps was making way too much money last year.   Theo was the only guy that think Paps was worth of 12.5M dollars, not us.  But since Paps took advantage of Theo's mistake, he use his leverage to find a new team that is willing to pay him same amount or more per year.  That was the Phillies. 

    Also look at all the closers that signed with a new team along with few of them resigned with the old team, they are all making at least 8 to 10 million dollars a year such as F-Rod, Fluentes, Nathan, Cordero, Wagner, Wood, etc, and most of them were busted closers!!!  

    That was why Boston know most closers tend to be a busted signing than being a valuable signing in the past many years.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ergoetal. Show Ergoetal's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Let's wait and see.

    I'm fine with letting him go.  He'll do well for a while, and then fall back to earth.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Papelbon is an elite closer. Not perfect , by any means , but still one of the best. The Sox could not compete for his services due to the money spent/wasted on the Crawford, Lackey and Jenks contracts. Like it or not , that is a fact. There is no sense crying about it now, or demeaning Pap. Have to move on. Aceves looks like he can do a good job , probably better than Bailey would have done. But there is absolutely no question that Papelbon is missed.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    I am not sure what is so hard to understand about the reasoning behind the Sox not re-signing Papelbon.  It didn't have to do with either the annual salary or Papelbon's current worth as a closer.  No one questions that he is an elite closer.  The Sox front office just extrapolated forward and conjectured that he would not be that elite closer in four or five years.  And, since Pap is not Mo, and, even with recent secondary pitch additions, still uses the high heat with movement as his bread and butter, it is unlikely that he will be able to sustain his elite level.  Hitters have already started to catch up, or more correctly, he has slowed down over the past few years.  He had a bump in performance last year as he diversified his portfolio a bit.  But, Papelbon is still going to the rising fastball when the money is on the table.  Everyone knows that.  Even the Baltimore Orioles.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]Possibly more, but too early to tell. -8 for 8 in saves -0.90 ERA -0.90 WHIP -6 hits, 3 BBs, 10 Ks in 10-1/3 And before people go the "But Phillies are below .500" route, understand they've been without BOTH Utley and Howard, and will get both back at some point. Aside from very early on, Pap has had no injury concerns, and has been an elite close for many years. They are rare. The Sox grew one, and let him walk. At 31, I doubt I'll ever see the farm produce another closer of his level. Of course Hindsight is 20/20, but how can the Sox have been so wrong, on so many FA decisions; both who comes AND who goes?
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    1 month into a 4-year contract....don't you think that's a bit premature to make a judgement? 

    Which other free agent departures do you regret? 

    I'd say the Sox have made pretty good judgements overall on departures.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]I am not sure what is so hard to understand about the reasoning behind the Sox not re-signing Papelbon.  It didn't have to do with either the annual salary or Papelbon's current worth as a closer.  No one questions that he is an elite closer.  The Sox front office just extrapolated forward and conjectured that he would not be that elite closer in four or five years.  And, since Pap is not Mo, and, even with recent secondary pitch additions, still uses the high heat with movement as his bread and butter, it is unlikely that he will be able to sustain his elite level.  Hitters have already started to catch up, or more correctly, he has slowed down over the past few years.  He had a bump in performance last year as he diversified his portfolio a bit.  But, Papelbon is still going to the rising fastball when the money is on the table.  Everyone knows that.  Even the Baltimore Orioles.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]
    I disagree spaceman.  The front office over paid for garbage free agents and had to skimp and save when our home grown closer deserved a pay day.  They couldn't afford Paps because they screwed up and Ben was put on a tight leash this winter.  I believe Paps will be closing after his current contract expires.  He has good mechanics and has a great mentality for closing

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Pap cleaned out his locker right after they got back from their last game and signed with the phillies Aw soon as free agency started. Doesn't sound like he wanted to come back.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]Pap cleaned out his locker right after they got back from their last game and signed with the phillies Aw soon as free agency started. Doesn't sound like he wanted to come back.
    Posted by RSF4Life234[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you.  I think he wanted out of boston.  He will have a longer career in the nl and a longer career means more money.  He has his ws rings so now it's all about the big bucksMoney mouth
     

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