Please Stop Crying about Francona -

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    He is gone and deservedly so....

    So let's remember why he is history:

    He sucked at managing the bullpen
    He sucked at motivating his players
    He sucked at disciplining his players
    He sucked at conditioning his players
    He sucked at providing leadership to his players
    He sucked playing small-ball
    He sucked at daily lineups (how many headscratchers during the season????)
    He sucked preparing his team for the regular season during spring training
    His teams have won ZERO playoff games the past three years
    His top 3 payroll team has finished THIRD two years in a row...

    You guys are whining like you lost your mommas!
    GET OVER IT
    The next manager with the very same talent will win ten more games next year just by playing his best players, conditioning them properly, and teaching basic fundamentals....GUARANTEED
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Time4Theo2Go. Show Time4Theo2Go's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]He is gone and deservedly so.... So let's remember why he is history: He sucked at managing the bullpen He sucked at motivating his players He sucked at disciplining his players He sucked at conditioning his players He sucked at providing leadership to his players He sucked playing small-ball He sucked at daily lineups (how many headscratchers during the season????) He sucked preparing his team for the regular season during spring training His teams have won ZERO playoff games the past three years His top 3 payroll team has finished THIRD two years in a row... You guys are whining like you lost your mommas! GET OVER IT The next manager with the very same talent will win ten more games next year just by playing his best players, conditioning them properly, and teaching basic fundamentals....GUARANTEED
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Joe Torre won't let Theo InEpstein meddle with the clubhouse and roster.
    Bobby Valentine would hit Theo in the face with a bat.

    Either manager works for Red Sox Nation.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    I'm not whining, I think it was something that had to happen.  But I think he had some strong points as a manager.  In particular I thought he was generally good managing the bullpen and, up until this year, at motivating the players. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ALaGatorAL. Show ALaGatorAL's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    I guess you're right beer can be a very motivating tool if used properly !! LOL
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]He is gone and deservedly so.... So let's remember why he is history: He sucked at managing the bullpen He sucked at motivating his players He sucked at disciplining his players He sucked at conditioning his players He sucked at providing leadership to his players He sucked playing small-ball He sucked at daily lineups (how many headscratchers during the season????) He sucked preparing his team for the regular season during spring training His teams have won ZERO playoff games the past three years His top 3 payroll team has finished THIRD two years in a row... You guys are whining like you lost your mommas! GET OVER IT The next manager with the very same talent will win ten more games next year just by playing his best players, conditioning them properly, and teaching basic fundamentals....GUARANTEED
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]He is gone and deservedly so.... So let's remember why he is history: He sucked at managing the bullpen He sucked at motivating his players He sucked at disciplining his players He sucked at conditioning his players He sucked at providing leadership to his players He sucked playing small-ball He sucked at daily lineups (how many headscratchers during the season????) He sucked preparing his team for the regular season during spring training His teams have won ZERO playoff games the past three years His top 3 payroll team has finished THIRD two years in a row... You guys are whining like you lost your mommas! GET OVER IT The next manager with the very same talent will win ten more games next year just by playing his best players, conditioning them properly, and teaching basic fundamentals....GUARANTEED
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    Thats funny !! Would have loved to be there when you posted this. Did you foam at the mouth? Now get a towel and clean up the floor.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    don...it took you how many times to post that???
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]He is gone and deservedly so.... So let's remember why he is history: He sucked at managing the bullpen He sucked at motivating his players He sucked at disciplining his players He sucked at conditioning his players He sucked at providing leadership to his players He sucked playing small-ball He sucked at daily lineups (how many headscratchers during the season????) He sucked preparing his team for the regular season during spring training His teams have won ZERO playoff games the past three years His top 3 payroll team has finished THIRD two years in a row... You guys are whining like you lost your mommas! GET OVER IT The next manager with the very same talent will win ten more games next year just by playing his best players, conditioning them properly, and teaching basic fundamentals....GUARANTEED
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    You forgot that he led the franchise to its greatest eight-year period since Babe Ruth was here and Woodrow Wilson was president.

    You got what you wanted, geo ... enjoy it, because it won't take long till you're blasting the next guy.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_4414696. Show user_4414696's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    As a Yankee fan I honestly don't understand all the Francona bashing during and NOW especially after his tenure. He won 2 World Championships as manager during his time in Boston....at the end of 2003 RSN would have been thrilled if the manager being brought in won one world championship in 8 years as manager...Francona won 2. 

    The guy is gone, give him a break.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    Francona was enormously successful as a Red Sox manager.  If people don't think he did a good job then they just weren't paying attention.

    Obviously his act wore out and the guys that used to play hard for him didn't anymore.  So he had to go.    It's nothing to cry about it's just how things go.  What used to work doesn't always keep working. That doesn't negate what he did while he was here.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    lloyd - unless he's like Francona (and I dont think management wants to go there again) I wont be too worried...I will be rejoicing - I mean the first time I see our guys hustling down first base, laying down a successful bunt, or just stepping onto the filed in April in shape and ready to play, will bring tears of joy to my eyes....

    we are all going to like that...promise
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]Francona was enormously successful as a Red Sox manager.  If people don't think he did a good job then they just weren't paying attention. Obviously his act wore out and the guys that used to play hard for him didn't anymore.  So he had to go.    It's nothing to cry about it's just how things go.  What used to work doesn't always keep working. That doesn't negate what he did while he was here.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    i agree snake - it was his time...i mean the guy WALKED away from this gig so im not exactly sure where the hand-wringing comes from...did people expect him to be manager for life...if those same people were around when Red gave up the reigns as coach of the Celts probably wouldve been on suicide watch by now

    Ive never been shy about giving Francona props for winning two championships (and being Cool Hand Luke down 3-0 on '04)...no true fan would BUT Kc Jones also won titles..and Mike Ditka won a title and history has not made them out to be great coaches so we will see about Terry....I actually would love to see him and Theo to go the Cubs and start all over again...I would follow and root for them in the NL but make no bones about it, it was time for a change
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]lloyd - unless he's like Francona (and I dont think management wants to go there again) I wont be too worried...I will be rejoicing - I mean the first time I see our guys hustling down first base, laying down a successful bunt, or just stepping onto the filed in April in shape and ready to play, will bring tears of joy to my eyes.... we are all going to like that...promise
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]I hate to break this to you but some of what toast your grits won't change.

    Some players over 162 games won't sprint out of the box on routine grounders, there will be little or not bunting except in late and close games. And you all are still likely to perceive some players because they won't have basketball player bodies as being fat.

    And BTW from the OPs on page 1 today it looked like the crying about Francona leaving stopped but the this OP and couple of others appear the whining about the 93 win a year AVERAGE over 8 years manager with two WS titles won't.

    Also I don't think it will matter much who the manager is if next September the pitching rotation is missing two starters, 2 starts from Beckett, 1 from Bedard. Or that it won't take 30 days for every Tito detractor to find plenty of stuff to complain about the new manager.    
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]Francona was enormously successful as a Red Sox manager.  If people don't think he did a good job then they just weren't paying attention. Obviously his act wore out and the guys that used to play hard for him didn't anymore.  So he had to go.    It's nothing to cry about it's just how things go.  What used to work doesn't always keep working. That doesn't negate what he did while he was here.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    The team was moderately successful while he was called their manager. They should have been enormously successful, but in reality, they wern't. In 2004 and 2007, the players were able to offset Francona's negative affect on the outcome of games. It is a wonder to me how fans that supposedly watch every game, as I do, didn't see him making decisions that surpass Grady Little's poor decision. He continously made "Gradys" and he was given a pass because the team was able to win 2 WS. They should have been in 2 or 3 more WS, but they were just able to overcome his buffoonery the way they did in 2004 and 2007.
    What used to work?? What did you see that many of us missed? The team was down 0-3 to the yankees in 2004 playoffs. Millar and Manny locked Francona in a closet for the final 4 games to give the team a better chance of winning. Now that worked ! Laughing
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona - : i agree snake - it was his time...i mean the guy WALKED away from this gig so im not exactly sure where the hand-wringing comes from...did people expect him to be manager for life...if those same people were around when Red gave up the reigns as coach of the Celts probably wouldve been on suicide watch by now Ive never been shy about giving Francona props for winning two championships (and being Cool Hand Luke down 3-0 on '04)...no true fan would BUT Kc Jones also won titles..and Mike Ditka won a title and history has not made them out to be great coaches so we will see about Terry....I actually would love to see him and Theo to go the Cubs and start all over again...I would follow and root for them in the NL but make no bones about it, it was time for a change
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    The Sox brass let him walk away, but don't kid yourselves, they were not going to pick up his option. He was Fired.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    Who's crying?  I was one of Francona's big defenders, but I'm fine with what happened.  The team collapsed at the worst possible time and for a whole month, and the manager has to pay the price.  Plus Francona himself seemed almost happy to leave.

    That said, I have to ask:  How can an undisciplined, unmotivated, ill-conditioned team be the best team in MLB for four months?  And why did a truly horrible September coincide with the complete collapse of the starting pitching and partial collapse of the bullpen? 

    And this.  Going by all the post-game critiques from georom and company this year and last, etc, we can definitely expect the Sox not to lose a single game next year because the master of malfeasance, Terry Francona, won't be at the helm.  Every lineup will be just right.  Every pitcher will be used for just the right number of innings--nay, not innings, but outs--and the Sox offense will flourish in a crescendo of classic small ball maneuvers. 

    With Francona gone, the Sox are guaranteed to get to the playoffs every year and the WS every other year at least. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Modano09. Show Modano09's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -


    He won two World Series with the Sox. That's two more than any other manager won since 1918. I'm pretty sure he's the only manager to have won two WS in the past decade. He had his flaws, he made the wrong move or non-move at times, but he did a great job here. 

    I think the problem is the clubhouse changed. Or the culture changed. Was that Ortiz thing over his RBI ever confirmed to be a joke? I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out it was legit. Read the quotes coming from most of these guys, they're mindset seems much different than the players in 2004. Even guys like Ortiz are talking openly about their contract and what they think they should get. Papelbon talks about wanting to be the highest paid closer in the game. Either the team threw Ellsbury under the bus last year or he took it upon himself to make sure his injury was blamed on the team. Youkilis can't keep his mouth shut. Supposedly Beckett's content with his big contract now. 


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]He won two World Series with the Sox. That's two more than any other manager won since 1918. I'm pretty sure he's the only manager to have won two WS in the past decade. He had his flaws, he made the wrong move or non-move at times, but he did a great job here.  I think the problem is the clubhouse changed. Or the culture changed. Was that Ortiz thing over his RBI ever confirmed to be a joke? I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out it was legit. Read the quotes coming from most of these guys, they're mindset seems much different than the players in 2004. Even guys like Ortiz are talking openly about their contract and what they think they should get. Papelbon talks about wanting to be the highest paid closer in the game. Either the team threw Ellsbury under the bus last year or he took it upon himself to make sure his injury was blamed on the team. Youkilis can't keep his mouth shut. Supposedly Beckett's content with his big contract now. 
    Posted by Modano09[/QUOTE]Let's not get too misty eyed about the 2004 RS.

    Pedro talked about his contract. Schilling rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and his battles with Williamson who he reportedly called out for taking himself out of game (Williamson turned out to have a major injury and was lost for the year), told guys he did not liked the way they wore their uniforms, had his say about Pedro having his own set of rules and Manny for being Manny.  Millar was POed about PT when the RS traded Nomar.

    What happened here had a lot more to do with the state of the starting pitching in September which eventually also took the bullpen with it. How bad it got brought to light stuff that happens and frankly magnified it. This club stunk is September and it was a lack of pitching talent first and foremost. The "side issues" may have cost them the 2 to 4 games that would have allowed them to make a ALDS appearance and then go home.

    The manager has moved on. His legacy will be marked over time. I am willing to bet his longevity and win percentage will stand for a long time to come.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona - : i agree snake - it was his time...i mean the guy WALKED away from this gig so im not exactly sure where the hand-wringing comes from...did people expect him to be manager for life...if those same people were around when Red gave up the reigns as coach of the Celts probably wouldve been on suicide watch by now Ive never been shy about giving Francona props for winning two championships (and being Cool Hand Luke down 3-0 on '04)...no true fan would BUT Kc Jones also won titles..and Mike Ditka won a title and history has not made them out to be great coaches so we will see about Terry....I actually would love to see him and Theo to go the Cubs and start all over again...I would follow and root for them in the NL but make no bones about it, it was time for a change
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Yeah Geo you know I used to bust you when you gave Francona a hard time.  But after seeing this team fall apart in September something had to happen. I gave the guy credit when they won, so I have to give him some of the blame when a team he was managing completely fell apart.  I am all about the bottom line.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PaulRodgers. Show PaulRodgers's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    Yup, now we have to hear about the "Francona Curse" for the next 20 years...can't wait!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona - : The team was moderately successful while he was called their manager. They should have been enormously successful, but in reality, they wern't. In 2004 and 2007, the players were able to offset Francona's negative affect on the outcome of games. It is a wonder to me how fans that supposedly watch every game, as I do, didn't see him making decisions that surpass Grady Little's poor decision. He continously made "Gradys" and he was given a pass because the team was able to win 2 WS. They should have been in 2 or 3 more WS, but they were just able to overcome his buffoonery the way they did in 2004 and 2007. What used to work?? What did you see that many of us missed? The team was down 0-3 to the yankees in 2004 playoffs. Millar and Manny locked Francona in a closet for the final 4 games to give the team a better chance of winning. Now that worked !
    Posted by BOSOX1941[/QUOTE]

    It's obvious what used to work.  What used to work was his " I got your back, I'm your buddy" managerial style.  At one point his team responded to that.  Then they stopped responding.  I don't think many people missed that the Red Sox used to love playing for Francona.  It just seems like they tuned him out.  So he has to go.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona - : I hate to break this to you but some of what toast your grits won't change. Some players over 162 games won't sprint out of the box on routine grounders, there will be little or not bunting except in late and close games. And you all are still likely to perceive some players because they won't have basketball player bodies as being fat. And BTW from the OPs on page 1 today it looked like the crying about Francona leaving stopped but the this OP and couple of others appear the whining about the 93 win a year AVERAGE over 8 years manager with two WS titles won't. Also I don't think it will matter much who the manager is if next September the pitching rotation is missing two starters, 2 starts from Beckett, 1 from Bedard. Or that it won't take 30 days for every Tito detractor to find plenty of stuff to complain about the new manager.    
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE
    OK about "fat," but with this qualification. The comment was made somewhere that "all bodies are different." ( Using Ruth as an example doesn't work, because he was a freak of nature. ) Right to the point, if it's also understood that is why some players can carry gained weight ( even in muscle tone! ) better than others, especially as a season progresses. Weight also makes some players more liable to injuries than it does for others. Some "fatso" pitchers can still bring their arm through quickly. On others, weight can and does cause a lag. And so forth. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BeaconHill19. Show BeaconHill19's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    Can anyone refer me to a good Italian restaurant in Srpringfield, MA that is a saturated with Yankee fans?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    Pathetic post georom. Really your worst. Many fans seem to me to be reasonable, realizing it was time for Tito to go (which I feel). But he still won us two rings. What you don't understand, and probably never will, is that in the pressure cooker of Boston he was the perfect guy to guide the team to the first ring in franchise history. I'll give you that he did not do a good job this season. You got what you wanted, how about showing a bit more class?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dbeach48. Show dbeach48's posts

    Re: Please Stop Crying about Francona -

    good luck to him  but glad he is gone.

    .NESN poll shows more fans blame lackless  then epstein then tito for the sept slaughterhouse.

    way high percent blaming lackey.

    francona could NOT manage that BP and was not good with the starting pitchers even IF they all were Cours freaks.
     

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