Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

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    Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

     
    Yes, he is a Core Four Yankee and deserves more respect than that
    No, he is hitting under .200 and Joe Girardi had the right to change things up
    Why does it matter where he bats? Get out there and hit the ball

    by Nick Cafardo/Boston Globe:

    NEW YORK — We understand the frustration of hitting .165, of having your position taken away and being moved to one that is foreign to you. We understand there may be some humiliation in being dropped to ninth in the batting order, but what Jorge Posada did last night was unprofessional for a player who has won four championships and who has always conducted himself with integrity.

    Posada didn’t do himself any favors after the game as he tried to explain his actions.

    For one, the catcher-turned-DH never told his manager, his general manager, or his trainer that his back was bothering him. He simply walked into Joe Girardi’s office about an hour before game time and said he needed a day to clear his head.

    Girardi said he didn’t ask any questions, knowing when a player asks for a day to clear his head, you oblige. Then, Girardi said, “I had to make out a new lineup and get the other guy [Andruw Jones] ready.’’

    Posada’s reputation is now somewhat blemished. His legacy is now somewhat tainted and his explanation was really bad.

    His wife Laura tweeted during the game that her husband was experiencing back spasms. His father told the YES Network that his son made a poor decision.

    “I needed first to clear my head and that was it,’’ Posada said. “My back stiffened up a little bit. I was taking live ground balls at first base. I wasn’t 100 percent.’’

    This is a guy, mind you, known for his toughness. It brought back the whole Nomar Garciaparra incident against the Yankees in 2004 when he sat out claiming his Achilles’ was too sore to play.

    Posada claimed his request had nothing to do with batting ninth.

    “That doesn’t matter,’’ he said. “I talked to you guys [media] before the game, I was clear with that. I put myself in that position [being dropped to ninth]. In that situation, I didn’t hit the way I wanted. I was looking forward to playing the game.’’

    And then he said his back was not seriously injured. He said he had a chiropractor look at him during the game, but never went to the trainers. Girardi said he didn’t find out about the back issue until after he’d been ejected from the game in the seventh inning. He and Posada never spoke during the game.

    And then Posada seemed irked at GM Brian Cashman for updating the media during the game.

    “I don’t understand why he made a statement in the middle of the game. That’s the way he works now,’’ Posada said.

    Asked if he was mad at Cashman, Posada said, “Ah, well, we’ll see. I think we should have waited for the game to be over to talk rather than talk to whoever during the game. You’re not supposed to do that.’’

    And a player is supposed to tell his manager and organization that his back hurts.

    Someone so tough is supposed to suck it up when the team is going as badly as the Yankees are right now. After all, Posada’s played through far worse as a catcher. As a DH? Posada should never have brought up his back to the media if he didn’t bring it up with his manager. Just tell the truth: He needs to clear his head. End of story.

    Asked whether he had cleared his head, Posada said, “I need a little bit more time. I need to talk to my wife and people around me and have a nice conversation and be here tomorrow.’’

    Might he be mulling retirement?

    “No. I still want to be here. I love playing for this organization. Hopefully we can move on,’’ Posada said.

    Asked if he’s felt disrespected since November, when he was told he would no longer be catching, he said, “A little bit.’’

    The Yankee brass will have to decide whether Posada should be fined or suspended for his behavior. As one of the core players still left, maybe he gets some leeway.

    “This is a situation we will take care of,’’ Girardi said. “Players go through tough times in this game. Sometimes we need days to clear our head and take a deep breath. I’ve been there. I’ve been through struggles. This season has been a struggle. He’s tried to fight through it and today he felt he needed a day.’’

    The Red Sox’ David Ortiz, a longtime friend of Posada’s, weighed in after the game.“You know what I think? They’re doing that guy wrong,’’ said Ortiz. “You know why? That guy, he is legendary right there in that organization. And dude, DHing [stinks]. DHing is not easy.

    “From what I heard, they told him from the very beginning that he’s not even going to catch bullpens. That straight up will start messing with your head. And you’re going to tell me that Posada can’t catch a game out there? Come on, man.’’

    Regarding Posada’s actions, Ortiz said, “You don’t do that. But that’s what I’m trying to tell you guys. The confusion, the frustration that you’re living in sometimes makes you make mistakes. He’s not perfect. He’s a human, just like everyone else. He probably [thought] it was the right thing to do, but now you see that [it wasn’t].’’

    There’s no way Posada can come out of this with his reputation intact unless he admits he was wrong. Completely wrong. Because he was. And when he can think clearly, he will likely admit that. Love or hate the Yankees, Posada has always been a class act. Until last night.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: The empire is on fire-Bronx Zoo: Posada and Yankees in messy spat as Posada designates himself a sitter!

    I hate it when a bonifide star gets treated like Georgie did last night ...

       he was dissed by the NYYs FO

       he was dissed by NYs yellow rags ... but that's why they are yellow.

    The man has given his whole stellar career to the club ... loyalty, pride, RESULTS, ... and then this....

      Similar to what we did to Wade Boggs and Roger Clemens.  (Don't go off on Roger ... this was before he started using PEDS to get back his mojo.)

      I don't like the Yanquis, but this treatment is almost unforgiveable.  It's like turning on the face of your team.

      Oh, wait .....



     
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    They screwed him.  Do you mean to tell me that Posada could not have caught 30-40 games this season?  During those games, let Arod DH.  Instead, they hose the guy and make him look like a bad guy.  Nice job.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 04nofluke. Show 04nofluke's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Love it, love it, love it.  Yanks keep doin what yer doin.  Boston, .500 is on the horizon!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Hmmm, this chink in the armor may have something to do with why this team isn't playing well right now.  It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    I think that to rectumfry the injustice what was done to georgie.... Girardi should make sure he understands just how important the Posada legacy is.

    YANKS fans should all demand justice for their star... I say we sox fans assist them in getting that justice.... by say maybe making PUSSATA bat 1st for tonights game.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kt888. Show kt888's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    And of course, FOX tracks down Cashman mid-game, because he is the one most likely to speak to the media these days.  He said very little but, shared that it was NOT an injury situation, which is saying too much.  He made no attempt to diffuse the situation with the media, and FOX ran with it, talking retirement, fines, voiding contracts, quoting tweets, etc. Cashman could have changed the entire complexion of this with a few reassuring words, but that's not his way these days.  

    If I were a Yankee fan, I may feel a bit betrayed and frustrated with Posada, I don't really know.  But as a fan of another team looking at the situation, if this is the extent of it, I don't feel that Jorge's image or legacy is tarnished......come on.  Jorge was not afforded the opportunity to transition out of his primary role to a more one dimensional role.  This is a drastic change for a player both mentally and physically.  Perhaps he could be handling the situation with more grace, no doubt (the back issue was almost obviously brought to light in response to the life the situation took on during the game - and he probably sees the chiropractor regularly, whether he is in the line-up or not).  But if he is mentally not prepared to go on a given day, regardless of the reasons, is it best for the team for him to be in the line-up? I'm sure with his own struggles at the plate and feeling that the organization is not behind him, he is mentally drained.  Apparently being dropped to 9th was the last straw and he said he couldn't go for that game.  It's an unfortunate set of circumstances for all involved, but I don't see what all of the extreme fuss is about.  It shouldn't be that big of a story, IMO.  Hopefully it is resolved today and everyone moves on.  


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Tough situation for both sides.  Posada is wrong--Girardi did what he had to do--but you have to feel some emphathy for him. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prknsdnld. Show prknsdnld's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    -In Response to Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?:
    [QUOTE]And of course, FOX tracks down Cashman mid-game, because he is the one most likely to speak to the media these days.  He said very little but, shared that it was NOT an injury situation, which is saying too much.  He made no attempt to diffuse the situation with the media, and FOX ran with it, talking retirement, fines, voiding contracts, quoting tweets, etc. Cashman could have changed the entire complexion of this with a few reassuring words, but that's not his way these days.   If I were a Yankee fan, I may feel a bit betrayed and frustrated with Posada, I don't really know.  But as a fan of another team looking at the situation, if this is the extent of it, I don't feel that Jorge's image or legacy is tarnished......come on.  Jorge was not afforded the opportunity to transition out of his primary role to a more one dimensional role.  This is a drastic change for a player both mentally and physically.  Perhaps he could be handling the situation with more grace, no doubt (the back issue was almost obviously brought to light in response to the life the situation took on during the game - and he probably sees the chiropractor regularly, whether he is in the line-up or not).  But if he is mentally not prepared to go on a given day, regardless of the reasons, is it best for the team for him to be in the line-up? I'm sure with his own struggles at the plate and feeling that the organization is not behind him, he is mentally drained.  Apparently being dropped to 9th was the last straw and he said he couldn't go for that game.  It's an unfortunate set of circumstances for all involved, but I don't see what all of the extreme fuss is about.  It shouldn't be that big of a story, IMO.  Hopefully it is resolved today and everyone moves on.  
    Posted by kt888[/QUOTE]
      if Jorge says his back is stiff, then his back is stiff. He seems like a straight shooting guy to me. The whole thing was turned into a circus by FOX, to the point where his wife was tweeting his defense in mid game.Cashman says it was not an injury, and I don't think a stiff back is an "injury". Posada is a proud man going through some tough times, and probably doesn't want to make an already bad situation worse by going out hurt and flailing at baseballs with a bat in his hands, which he already seems to be doing. He deserves the benefit of the doubt.
    As far as him being allowed to catch, would once a week work? Maybe not. The end comes cruelly-- ask Jim Rice, Phil Rizzuto, Rico Petrocelli, Mel Stottlemye and most others. I know one thing- Jorge's hitting .165 as DH. Can't have that, and the Yanks have been gracious with their patience. There is a reason he's not catching, and Girardi should be commended for not making that public. Some pitchers on the staff chose not to have him catch them last year, and runners were stealing him blind. Running Posada out there once a week to be sensitive could be a disaster.
     I hate to sound heartless, and I am a Yankee fan, and felt the same way when the boo-birds were calling for Joe Torre's head during Bernie Williams' waning days: this is a business, and runners are not being driven in- you saw the stats last night. I hope Jorge adjusts to the role and catches fire. Like Smiley pointed out, he is 39 years old.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?




    greetings KT888

    as always good stuff

    you seemed to have it covered it all

    I think his wife might have been the one that started the sore back talk

    thinking it would help him, but instead forced him to back her


    But if he is mentally not prepared to go on a given day, regardless of the reasons, is it best for the team for him to be in the line-up? I'm sure with his own struggles at the plate and feeling that the organization is not behind him, he is mentally drained.
     

    bingo

    if one read the stories as they came out

    at 1st he clearly tried to say / do all the right things

    but after tons of questions from the reporters

    wasn't able to clear his head B4 the game




     Apparently being dropped to 9th was the last straw and he said he couldn't go for that game.
     

    IMO there's a difference between 8th & 9th

    no reason to bat him 9th





    It's an unfortunate set of circumstances for all involved, but I don't see what all of the extreme fuss is about. 

    other than the ole-anything to do with yanks / sox

    I agree, ironically I heard nomar was commenting on espn




    I do find it funny that some fellow nyy fans are mad at posada

    he's batting squat and they say he hurt the team by taking a day off

    I'm thinking most of theses guys didn't want him in the line up anyways




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    To alll people that feel Posada is disrespected, or "not doing right" by him as Ortiz put it...

    How many millions is he making this year? He's probably one of the most overpaid players in baseball right now, right along with Jeter.

    Posada mishandled the way he went about it to begin with (this was Drew-like in timing), HE said he needed a "mental break", then his WIFE tweets about back spasms? Pitiful.

    Then, Posada, again not doing himself any favors, says Cashman mishandled it by u[dating the media midgame? Really? Has he never seen Girardi don a headset in the 3rd/4th inning and stare straight into the camera? Who's he thing his manager is talking to? Oh, but the GM should be a mute until the guy HE'S PAYING decides it's ok? (Yes, I understand it's the Boss' money, not his, you get my point)

    And to Ortiz, if DHing, as you put it "S u c k s real bad" than retire. Nobody is holding a gun to the head of these guys to PLAY A GAME for half a year for MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!

    Enough with the whining. If Girardi wants him to clean the clubhouse at his salary, he should do it without a f u c k i n g whimper.

    Entitled, spoiled, overpaid, self righteous brats. That's what athletes are turning into. What a disgrace.

    Because of his standing with the team, what does he get? Where does it end?
    Roster Spot? Yup
    HUGE contract? Yup
    Regular playing time? Pretty much, even though he's doing awful
    Choosing his position? Apparently not, much to the chagrin of Posada
    Deciding where to hit in lineup? Again, not his call, and he seems mad about it

    Truth is, if he was worried about the TEAM, he woud've asked out of the lineup a few weeks ago after his powerful start, donated money to charity, and enjoyed retirement with his completely undeservedly gorgeous wife. Apparently, being Jorge Posada, charter member of the Yankees! Was more important than being a member of a cohesive team.

    He gets no sympathy from me, and Ortiz should have kept his overpaid mouth shut too. Go do another commercial together and sing a duet if that'll make you both feel better about being disrespected with your 8 figure contracts.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    The short answer is no, because it goes against the "yes coach" mind set that young kids are taught from an early age.

    Much like the Jeter negotiations, which were IMHO much to public...It appears Girardi, Cashman and the Stienboy's are ok with airing thier dirty laundry in the press. So it's difficult to find fault in Posada's pressors...

    Back to Posada, the Yanks don't owe the guy anything, he's been in is still paid handsomely for his services and has a couple of hundred thousand in jewlery to boot.

    That said, I think there's more to this than is being reported...It strikes me as funny that the Yank's (Girardi) would chose to drop him to 9th in the second game of the series against the Red Sox in a nationally broacasted game on of all networks FOX and not have had a conversation with him before posting the lineup.

    On the surface, it suggest that Girardi got exactly what he was looking for? Stay tuned...

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    I think that Beantowne may have hit on something. There is more happening here than meets the eye. Until the facts are revealed I have to give Posada the benefit of the doubt, based upon his stellar record of professionalism prior to last night's "supposed" incident.

    If such a non-event could tarnish Posada's reputation then the player's reputation must have been suspect prior, which it definitely wasn't. Chalk this one up to media sensationalism based on nothing else controversial to report. Personally, I wish we would go back to a time when sportscasters focused more on the play on the field and less time was spent trying to stir up senseless controversy.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    So the team owes its long time players a certain amount of leeway no matter how badly they are performing and fans are bound to understand completely?  Got it.

    Hey Wakefield!! Come out of the bullpen and take your spot in the rotation!! We have an edict from Red Sox Nation!!

    Or maybe, just maybe, it's easier to speak out against this kind of thing when its another team in this dilemma.  Especially the Yankees....
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    In Response to Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?:
    [QUOTE]So the team owes its long time players a certain amount of leeway no matter how badly they are performing and fans are bound to understand completely?  Got it. Hey Wakefield!! Come out of the bullpen and take your spot in the rotation!! We have an edict from Red Sox Nation!! Or maybe, just maybe, it's easier to speak out against this kind of thing when its another team in this dilemma.  Especially the Yankees....
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Did you really just post that? We had the same situation here and management didn't throw our players under the bus!!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Girardi-Inept. Show Girardi-Inept's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    We don't know the real story. The reaction of FOX was overhype. Cashman didn't really say anything specific. Too much speculation including by many on this thread.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Playball, don't forget the second half of that compound sentence, the part you did not highlight.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    In Response to Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?:
    [QUOTE]Playball, don't forget the second half of that compound sentence, the part you did not highlight.
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Good point! Fans understand less than they think, as do sports reporters, because they are not privy to all of the inside information or conversations circulating behind closed doors. Most fan opinions are based on assumptions or limited information presented.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    What a sad situation this is.  Posada is a man who knows in his mind that his productive days as a player are over but his heart refuses to believe it.  Where he is professionally is not a secret:

    Posada knows that he's hitting <.200.
    Posada knows that baserunners are running at will on his arm.
    Posada knows that his manager has lost faith in him.

    And yet his pride won't let him retire gracefully.

    This is truly a lose/lose situation.  The Yankees are going to absorb $13MM in salary this year to honor a long-term commitment and Posada is going to feel unwanted and unhappy all season long. 

    Of course the smart thing for Posada to do now is to hold his head up and walk away, to say, "I was the BEST for many years and I played on World Series Championship teams.  Now age and life have caught up with me and it's time for me to move on."
    And the smart thing for the Yankees to do is to offer to pay him his $13MM to not play ball and offer him instead some kind of a scouting or front-office job much like many of us are hoping 'Tek gets.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    In Response to Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?:
    [QUOTE]We don't know the real story. The reaction of FOX was overhype. Cashman didn't really say anything specific. Too much speculation including by many on this thread.
    Posted by Girardi-Inept[/QUOTE]
    What we know is the Jorge isn't a happy camper and hasn't bought into the DH program...If you watched his pressor after the game, he tried to be as vague as possible...and his reference to that's the way he's does thing now re: cashman speaks to not only his but others frustrations with the GM's use of the press to speak to his players and coaches...it worked for George, cause he signed the checks...

    cleary something's amiss in the Bronx...
    />Posada is hitting a buck seventy five, is upset that he's been removed from the catchers position and it appears he and Girardi are at odds...

    in the end, Jorge has no leverage and he'll either do as he told or spend the year on the bench pouting or retire...Does he deserve to be treated better? that depends on what is being said behind closed doors...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    This is the dumbest "story" so far this year in MLB. 

    For 15 years this guy has been nothing but professional, period.  Now this?  Please.  Slow news day for sure.  I'm not saying he's thrilled with Cashman or even Girardi, but this is just an asinine story.

    Media should leave him alone, cut the guy some slack, and move on to a real piece of news.  I say this as a die-hard Sox fan:  Posada deserves much better than this, even if he is "sitting it out" right now.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    I have nothing but respect for Posada, who is one of my favorite Yankees (if that's not an oxymoron). But he's in the wrong here. He's not hitting his weight, so Girardi dropped him to 9th. Isn't that where our very own seen-better-days catcher is batting now?

    As I say, I respect the heck out of Posada, but I guess I'm old school here. Managers manage, players play.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Agreed Lloyd. This is something all professional ball players go through when they've stayed too long at the fair.  The hardest thing an organization/manager has to deal with are aging stars. The bottom line is, the Yankees could have, possibly should have, benched him.  Out of respect for his history with the team,they didnt quit on him, he did on them.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    It's a business.  A cool business 99.99% of US (and many other) boys want to be employed by....the tiny minoriry that make it are paid vast amounts of money....blah blah blah.

    Did Posada have a hissy fit about batting last and bag it?  I do not know, nor do any of you.

    If he did, [gosh darn it, the heck to] him.  If I ever am unwilling to perform to the required standard at work my employer should summarily fire me.

    If you don't agree and want to plead the "history", "loyalty" or "hero" case...extend the logic.....hands up, other than BaseballGM, majorleague and [that idiot] Softlaw who would prefer Willie Mays to Ellsbury today?
     

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