Red Sox Pitching

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brawny27. Show Brawny27's posts

    Red Sox Pitching

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to Brawny27's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

    [/QUOTE]

    They have nothing BUT 3, 4, and 5 spots. We need a #1 pitcher, an ace. And I don't see that happening this year.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    pumpsie,

    there just do not appear to be any of the "aces" you mention that we need out there and available this off season.  i do not think that cliff lee is the type of ace the sox need even if they could trade for him from the phillies.

    i would also like to see such a guy, but if he is not there then the staff depth must be even better before the season opens in april.  if the majority of the staff is going to be #2 and #3 type pitchers those guys have to be very good 2s and 3s for the entire year.   the 4s and 5s then need to be extra consistant as well.

    my guess is with valentine gone, farrell in and with a new pitching coach that the staff cannot be as bad as last season.  i have a hard time believing that lester is totally washed up yet and that buchholtz cannot recover and have a decent full season.   some of the other guys will have to step in and make major contributions early or some of the younger guys should get chances before the year is out.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    I think Lackey will bounce back in 2013.  My guess is he will finish 12-10 with a 4.50 ERA. 

    Bailey deserves another chance to close since he was hurt this year.  If he does not do well, then have Tazawa close instead. 

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    Another 2-3 starter will def help this team and I think we can expect that to happen. Who it is, I have no idea besides all the possibilities that have alreay been named here... I think Farrell really helps Bard and Lester. The pen seems pretty good. maybe another arm added there as well. A couple good depth signingas and were all set.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brawny27. Show Brawny27's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    Alright Ben now work some of your trade magic at the winter meetings!....pitching is our biggest need.........

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Brawny27's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

    [/QUOTE]

    They have nothing BUT 3, 4, and 5 spots. We need a #1 pitcher, an ace. And I don't see that happening this year.

    [/QUOTE]


    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Brawny27's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

    [/QUOTE]

    They have nothing BUT 3, 4, and 5 spots. We need a #1 pitcher, an ace. And I don't see that happening this year.

    [/QUOTE]


    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

    [/QUOTE]


     The guy on the mound? Well, hopefully its someone that at least keeps them in the game enough to win a lot more times than not.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to Brawny27's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

    [/QUOTE]


    Think just about everyone agrees w/ this. But RS do have some interesting in house guys. Doubront did very well last yr and surprised most- lets hope he continues to work hard [which seems to not be the case all the time w/ him] and should be able to fill one of those spots, Lackey is coming back and should be more than ready and believe he will surprise alot of people, he was pitching end of last yr and will have a full off season to prepare. Morales looked good as a starter in his 9 chances, and is going to be given a shot in ST. We've got Rubby who should now be 100% following his TJ surgery and has top of rotation stuff. But not a lot of depth past that.

    As for guys on market. The Marcum/Jackson/Haren/McCarthy/Sanchez are all going to cost some $ to sign and all come w/ ?'s. But do think RS need to sign 1 of these guys preferably nothing past 3 yrs [Sanchez might go 4] Then there is another bunch of guys  Lannan/Pefrey/ Jurrjens that might be a good on the cheap who could provide some depth to rotation in case something doesn't work out on the other ?'s the RS have.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Brawny27's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

    [/QUOTE]

    They have nothing BUT 3, 4, and 5 spots. We need a #1 pitcher, an ace. And I don't see that happening this year.

    [/QUOTE]


    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

    [/QUOTE]


    Top 30 starter.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to garyhow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Brawny27's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

    [/QUOTE]


    Think just about everyone agrees w/ this. But RS do have some interesting in house guys. Doubront did very well last yr and surprised most- lets hope he continues to work hard [which seems to not be the case all the time w/ him] and should be able to fill one of those spots, Lackey is coming back and should be more than ready and believe he will surprise alot of people, he was pitching end of last yr and will have a full off season to prepare. Morales looked good as a starter in his 9 chances, and is going to be given a shot in ST. We've got Rubby who should now be 100% following his TJ surgery and has top of rotation stuff. But not a lot of depth past that.

    As for guys on market. The Marcum/Jackson/Haren/McCarthy/Sanchez are all going to cost some $ to sign and all come w/ ?'s. But do think RS need to sign 1 of these guys preferably nothing past 3 yrs [Sanchez might go 4] Then there is another bunch of guys  Lannan/Pefrey/ Jurrjens that might be a good on the cheap who could provide some depth to rotation in case something doesn't work out on the other ?'s the RS have.

    [/QUOTE]

    Good post.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

    [/QUOTE]


    I believe an Ace is a top 10-15 starter, while a number 1 is a top 30 starter. Thats my definition anyway. I see  Dan Haren as a potential Ace if healthy and Anibal Sanchez as a rock solid number 1 starter.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

    [/QUOTE]


    I believe an Ace is a top 10-15 starter, while a number 1 is a top 30 starter. Thats my definition anyway. I see  Dan Haren as a potential Ace if healthy and Anibal Sanchez as a rock solid number 1 starter.

    [/QUOTE]


    I object to using phrases like "ace", "nbr 1", "nbr 2", etc. on the grounds they are subjective and fairly meaningless.  That said, I would describe an "ace" as a pitcher who, barring unforeseen circumstances e.g. injury, can be relied on to consisently deliver something like 30+ starts, 200+ innings, ERA<3.00, WHIP<1.20, etc....and there are not many of them.

    I don't think pointing at the top 10-15 starters and declaring them all aces makes sense....it's got to be a Halliday/Sabathia/Kershaw/Hamels/Cain type to me, not just the 15th best out of a fallow period.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think pointing at the top 10-15 starters and declaring them all aces makes sense....it's got to be a Halliday/Sabathia/Kershaw/Hamels/Cain type to me, not just the 15th best out of a fallow period.

    [/QUOTE]


    My precise definition of an ACE......

    Verlander
    Kershaw
    Price
    Strasberg
    Lee
    Hernandez
    Sabathia
    Weaver
    Hamels
    Halladay
    Greinke
    Cain
    Haren
    Gonzalez

    Thats 14 guys. Since it varies year to year I say its about 10-15 guys. Its probably more like 13-15 guys on average.

    As for the list. Halladay is getting old and might not be here long. Haren needs to be healthier or he leaves the list. Darvish and Sale have yet to prove themselves enough. Shields, Wainwright and Baumgarner just are not quite good enough.

    Precise enough? BTW, would you not call Stasberg an Ace for this up coming season?

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to charliedarling's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    pumpsie,

    there just do not appear to be any of the "aces" you mention that we need out there and available this off season.  i do not think that cliff lee is the type of ace the sox need even if they could trade for him from the phillies.

    i would also like to see such a guy, but if he is not there then the staff depth must be even better before the season opens in april.  if the majority of the staff is going to be #2 and #3 type pitchers those guys have to be very good 2s and 3s for the entire year.   the 4s and 5s then need to be extra consistant as well.

    my guess is with valentine gone, farrell in and with a new pitching coach that the staff cannot be as bad as last season.  i have a hard time believing that lester is totally washed up yet and that buchholtz cannot recover and have a decent full season.   some of the other guys will have to step in and make major contributions early or some of the younger guys should get chances before the year is out.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree. There are no realistic aces out there. Greinke is not a good match for our franchise. Therefore, its time to plan for 2014 IMO.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Brawny27's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

    [/QUOTE]

    They have nothing BUT 3, 4, and 5 spots. We need a #1 pitcher, an ace. And I don't see that happening this year.

    [/QUOTE]


    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

    [/QUOTE]


    Top 30 starter.

    [/QUOTE]

    Then how is Lester - 12th in WAR from 2010 through 2012 - not an ace?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

    [/QUOTE]


    I believe an Ace is a top 10-15 starter, while a number 1 is a top 30 starter. Thats my definition anyway. I see  Dan Haren as a potential Ace if healthy and Anibal Sanchez as a rock solid number 1 starter.

    [/QUOTE]


    Most definitions seem to peg Lester as an ace. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

    [/QUOTE]


    I believe an Ace is a top 10-15 starter, while a number 1 is a top 30 starter. Thats my definition anyway. I see  Dan Haren as a potential Ace if healthy and Anibal Sanchez as a rock solid number 1 starter.

    [/QUOTE]


    I object to using phrases like "ace", "nbr 1", "nbr 2", etc. on the grounds they are subjective and fairly meaningless.  That said, I would describe an "ace" as a pitcher who, barring unforeseen circumstances e.g. injury, can be relied on to consisently deliver something like 30+ starts, 200+ innings, ERA<3.00, WHIP<1.20, etc....and there are not many of them.

    I don't think pointing at the top 10-15 starters and declaring them all aces makes sense....it's got to be a Halliday/Sabathia/Kershaw/Hamels/Cain type to me, not just the 15th best out of a fallow period.

    [/QUOTE]


     

    Sorta my point with all this.

     

    As far as I can tell on this board, "ace" means "really, really good pitcher on another team."  A pitcher has to meet both parts of those criteria to be called an "ace."

     

    THere is that same feeling like with NBA Scouts - the more Sox fans see a pitcher, the greater than chance of him having an ineffective stretch/outing and therefore disproving his acehood.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think pointing at the top 10-15 starters and declaring them all aces makes sense....it's got to be a Halliday/Sabathia/Kershaw/Hamels/Cain type to me, not just the 15th best out of a fallow period.

    [/QUOTE]


    My precise definition of an ACE......

    Verlander
    Kershaw
    Price
    Strasberg
    Lee
    Hernandez
    Sabathia
    Weaver
    Hamels
    Halladay
    Greinke
    Cain
    Haren
    Gonzalez

    Thats 14 guys. Since it varies year to year I say its about 10-15 guys. Its probably more like 13-15 guys on average.

    As for the list. Halladay is getting old and might not be here long. Haren needs to be healthier or he leaves the list. Darvish and Sale have yet to prove themselves enough. Shields, Wainwright and Baumgarner just are not quite good enough.

    Precise enough? BTW, would you not call Stasberg an Ace for this up coming season?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'll take Baumgarner over many on your list.

    To me, an ace is about a top 30 starter over about the last 2-3 years, so I guess my list is longer.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'll take Baumgarner over many on your list.

    To me, an ace is about a top 30 starter over about the last 2-3 years, so I guess my list is longer.

    [/QUOTE]


    Are you saying there is  no difference in your opinion between an Ace and a number one? Just trying to clarify where you stand. Some people don't. But others like myself do.

     

    As for Baumgartner. i like him. Thats why I mentioned him. Just like the others better and don't quite see him as my personal definition of an Ace at this time. He is still real young. Probably gets there someday. As they say, to each his own.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Most definitions seem to peg Lester as an ace. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I see Lester as a number 1 still, but not an Ace under my belief. As to Lester's ability, he was an Ace two years ago. But the last two seasons he has taken a step back. In the last two seasons he is 26th in WAR and 27th in xFIP. I see 1 year as a potential blip. Two years is a trend.

     

    I agree with the general idea that pitchers are often under rated, in particular in the he is a "number 1" or he is a "number 3"kind of thing. Often they are labled one notch below where they should be. Anibal Sancheez is a great example of this. Maybe Lester too.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Brawny27's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

    [/QUOTE]

    They have nothing BUT 3, 4, and 5 spots. We need a #1 pitcher, an ace. And I don't see that happening this year.

    [/QUOTE]


    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

    [/QUOTE]


    Top 30 starter.

    [/QUOTE]

    Then how is Lester - 12th in WAR from 2010 through 2012 - not an ace?

    [/QUOTE]

    If Lester pitches to his career averages, he is a no doubt about it ace.  Probalby even a top 5 lefty.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    I actually think our pitching is good.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Red Sox Pitching

    In response to notin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Brawny27's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The Red Sox need a Good starting pitcher to  add to our under performing rotation of last year,I expect Lester and Buc to turn it around,but in order to compete next year we need another Good starting pitcher to round out our rotation,for 3 or 4 or 5 spot!....,Sanchez,Mcarthy ,....who will it be!...,,camon Ben

    [/QUOTE]

    They have nothing BUT 3, 4, and 5 spots. We need a #1 pitcher, an ace. And I don't see that happening this year.

    [/QUOTE]


    I really want a definition of an "ace" from someone...

    [/QUOTE]


    Ace of the staff mean someone who can pitch well over 200 innings, with an ERA under 3, and a WHIP hovering around 1. He needs to last at least 7 innings per start.

     

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