Re: Sign Z Greinke, trade for J Mauer, and trade Lester and Ells in the offseason
posted at 9/16/2012 10:30 PM EDT
In response to southpaw777's comment:
In response to makonikyman's comment:
In response to southpaw777's comment:
So you want to go out and do what we just got through doing that didnt work? no way...That was the exact kind of thinking that got this team in trouble
Id rather have Lee for less years and doesnt have social anxiety issues and is also someone these young pitchers can look up to. We could offer Doubront and maybe another prospect for him if Phil. eats some cash. Id also rather sign Torii Hunter for 2 yrs to play LF than Upton. Upton will cost too many prospects. Hes an inconsistent career .270 hitter who K's 130 times a year and has less than stellar defense. Salty has some of the top offensive number out of all MLB catcher and has improved greatly on defense since the end of April and should play here at least through his last arb year...Lavarnway has 6 years of control and still needs a bit of defensive work. Joe mauer has knee and back issues. He out of the Twins lineup now for the 3rd straight game because of his back and is not worth 23mm per through 2018 to play 1b. The guys had 1 year he hit over 20 HR...The rest are like an average of 9 per year. Not exactly a slugger. Great average and OBP who is not a longball guy, but gets paid like one.
Dont expect the Sox to get Appel. He will probably go within the top 3. Its a longshot.
Lester should stay here. He has one bad year and all of a sudden hes no good? Hes a LH power pitcher whos been a 17-19 game winner throughout his career giving you 200+ IP every year, never injured, has a team friendly contract and usually has a ton of K's. And now because of one bad year you want him out of here...Amazing...
I dont understand why some people get so caught up in big names and hefty contracts that dont fit. If we dont learn from the past.......
So you,d rather give up a 23 yr old, potential top end starter for a guy in his mid thirties making 25 mil. Hmmmmm...ok. Won,t happen. Mid to upper 90's young lefties do not grow on trees my friend...and, you DO NOT...give up on them. Period. By 2014 he can be what Lester used to be...
Dont put words in my mouth. I never said I was "giving up" on Doubie. Rather using what I think is a solid pitching prospect to obtain a much needed leader for this staff. Its kind of funny you say that about me, but its YOU that are giving up on Lester after only ONE bad year. He was in Cy Young talks since he came up and now after one bad year, your ready to let him walk. Lester is here for at least 2 more years and possibly more if the sox resign him. He will be only 30 after the 2014 season and if he comes back to form, he SHOULD be resigned.
Also...the top 4 coll pitchers projected in 13 are Sean MAnaea, Ryan Stanek, Appel, and Jonathon Crawford...we,ll get one of them. It,s a bumper crop for college pitching next yr? Let's say we get Crawford ( from u.fl. A96/98 mph stud starter) by 2014 we will have an unprecedented ( in my 45 yrs of following the rs) crop of power pitchers knocking at the door. Doubrount, Barnes, Crawford, Webster, De La Rosa, Henry Owens....and others. My guess is also, that you can still get a really nice pitching prospect for Lester in the off season. The buying team hoping he reverts back to prior form...but, what if again next yr he,s a 500 pitcher again with a 5 era? Do you pick up his 14 option for 14 mil? No...of course not. HeSS gone, and you got zilch.
First of all, to think that ALL our pitching prospects are going to shine or even make it is unrealistic. Sure they have every chance to, but to count on them def making it and succeeding is not realistic enough to guarentee. Lester already has a great track record, but had a bad year. It happens. If things are the same in 2013, of course id rethink my position. But Ill wait to see if that even happens. Im not giving up on him. His history would say not to.
When we drafted Bard as a starter everyone was in awe that we got a solid starter who threw 100mph. He couldnt cut it as a starter, was a solid reliever, Now look at him. Craig hanson was a sure thing too. wheres he? Andrew Miller was the #6 pick in the draft as a starter. All were 1st round picks. I could go on and on but I wont, Im sure you get my point. You just dont know how they are going to translate to MLB is all Im saying.
Salty is an absolute butcher behind the plate. Lava was just named best defensive catcher in IL. Salty NEVER....in his life, ever been mentioned for his defense, and never will. He,s horrible. Period. He,s a free agent in 14...get what you can for him right now. Mauer can still catch 80 games a yr and IS one of, if not the best defensive catchers in the game. He would be a Hugh asset to developing Lava. Then move to first full time.....and why is 23 mil too much for a career 323 hitter, 405 obp. Isn't,t that what A Gon making and was giving us...
I love when fans say hes a butcher. I laugh. You should join in on the salty needs to be benched thread. A few of us will show you numbers that prove different. Saltys defensive numbers have improved greatly. especially after April of this year. His pb/wp has been cut in half. Hes handling the staff much better and they are a lot more comfortable throwing to him. His offensive numbers rank well against other MLB catchers. He needs to work on raising his OBP, but to say hes a butcher is NOT looking at the numbers and the variables that numbers cant rate.
Forget Tory Hunter....that,s a joke. Bogarts will be the starting lf on opening day 2014.
Torii Hunter on a 1 year deal with a 2nd year option is NOT a joke. Far from it actually. Hes a leader that this clubhouse could use whos still batting .309 with an .813 OPS and someone who can still produce. He's a place holder until one of our own is ready. Im looking at maybe 8mm or so. You want to go get a guy whos not doing well in Anehiem, overpay him around 20mm per to come to Boston. Oh yeah, and hes suffered from social anxiety. Now THATS a joke. Or you want tp pay Joe Mauer, whos got back and knee issues, 23mm til 2018 to play 1b? Mauer hits for average and has a high OBP but little power as far as HR's go. If your going to pay someone 23mm for the next 6 years I would expect 30-40 HR a year, not 10 like mauer will give you...And you call Hunter a joke...Ok...
Jon Lester was a trower, not a pitcher. He was a 2 pitch pitcher that could get away with a mistake out over the plate at 96/97 mph. He,s lost a few ticks and is going to have to re invent himself. And in my opinion, it will not be by 2014.
Zack Greinke is A PITCER...who has 4 pitches he can throw at any time. He was rushed to the majors less than 2 yrs out of hs because he was THAT GOOD. He had anxiety from failing for the first time in his life and being away from home at 20 yrs old. What,s he done since? Gone like 77 - 45. On some really bad KC teams. To me southpaw...that shows incredible mental toughness. His 16-8 2.16 era yr a couple yrs ago was pedroesque...I would love to see how Lester would have pitched in K.C with those teams. I really hope the red sox sign him. He is by far the best free agent pitcher to be on the market in 2013, or 2014. And because our pick will be in the top 10 this yr, we won't have to give it up.( the new CBa requires forfeiting your 1st rnd pick if you sign a type a free agent, unless it,s a top 10 pick. Another reason to sign him IMHO) oh ya...Zack Greinke was also the 6th pick in the 1st rnd....right where we are now. I d be happy with that. Hanson and Bard were both in the twenty,s.